[Switchblade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamSword

I finished season 1 of Amazonz.

And, look, I'm sure the show has its fans, and you know, more power to you if you are one, but I just couldn't get into this at all.

I'm not kidding when I say there was not a single thing that I liked in it. All I saw was boring, drab, misery porn. And as someone who rather likes the original Amazon, it just hurt me all the more.

Maybe I'll watch season 2 sometime in the future, but I don't imagine it'll be anytime soon. This show just drained me.

I thought season 1 was okay-ish but just absolutely could not get into season 2. Ended up dropping it about halfway through and honestly have not regretted it for a second.

I feel like Amazons and Black Sun both made the same mistake when it came to trying to do Kamen Rider for adults: make it really bleak, add more gore, call it a day.

[Mesnick]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

I feel like Amazons and Black Sun both made the same mistake when it came to trying to do Kamen Rider for adults: make it really bleak, add more gore, call it a day.

Personally, I perceive these shows as Kamen Rider for teenagers. They are extremely dark and bloody, the world is unfair and terrible, and the heroes are brutal, often immoral, but at the same time still cool and special. Ironically, mocking the stupidity and naivety of children's originals, these shows create an even more primitive and stupid plot. Another significant difference is that "Black Sun" is designed for an audience that sits on political forums or at least watches the news, while Amazons splash out their angst purely in the form of personal and family relationships.

[DreamSword]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Good idea to take a break. Season 2 gets darker and weirder.

How could the dark green filter over the footage possibly get any worse!?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

I feel like Amazons and Black Sun both made the same mistake when it came to trying to do Kamen Rider for adults: make it really bleak, add more gore, call it a day.

I agree with this notion. I don't know where this idea that dark = mature came from, but it's really annoying more often than not.

All throughout all I kept thinking was "I could just be watching GARO right now."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesnick

Ironically, mocking the stupidity and naivety of children's originals, these shows create an even more primitive and stupid plot.

Preach!

[Sh Ranger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesnick

Personally, I perceive these shows as Kamen Rider for teenagers. They are extremely dark and bloody, the world is unfair and terrible, and the heroes are brutal, often immoral, but at the same time still cool and special. Ironically, mocking the stupidity and naivety of children's originals, these shows create an even more primitive and stupid plot.

Haruka is a pretty good guy though, albeit one who is constantly brooding due to his righteousness, or even basic humanity, being challenged as an outlier in the terrible "eat or be eaten" world he lives in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesnick

Another significant difference is that "Black Sun" is designed for an audience that sits on political forums or at least watches the news, while Amazons splash out their angst purely in the form of personal and family relationships.

I haven't seen any Black content yet, but this sounds weird. I imagine the venn diagram of Rider fans and news/politics fans doesn't have enough overlap for Toei to capitalize on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamSword

I agree with this notion. I don't know where this idea that dark = mature came from, but it's really annoying more often than not.

I think the gore can be justified as special effects, considering the original Amazon was similar. But the bleakness of the plot and characters makes it feel too pretentiously edgy when it didn't need to go that far. Shin Kamen Rider is a recent example of something that is bloody, but carries a hopeful message about the value of humanity.

[Mesnick]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Haruka is a pretty good guy though, albeit one who is constantly brooding due to his righteousness, or even basic humanity, being challenged as an outlier in the terrible "eat or be eaten" world he lives in.

Yes, Haruka is an example of a typical modern main rider in a cruel evil world. But at the same time, he fails to turn the situation around for the better and is even called Omega aka loser. And both the show and its fans love Jin more.

Quote:

I haven't seen any Black content yet, but this sounds weird. I imagine the venn diagram of Rider fans and news/politics fans doesn't have enough overlap for Toei to capitalize on.

I think this is a case where the idea seemed so attractive that no one considered pragmatic calculations. Sometimes Toyoi makes decisions with non-obvious logic. Overall, I would say that Black Sun (and Amazons) is an example of a poorly implemented idea with good potential.

[Mesnick]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamSword

I don't know where this idea that dark = mature came from, but it's really annoying more often than not.

I'll take a risk and even say that it's more often the other way around. That is, all comedies have sad moments, but in those intended for an adult audience it's most often a quarrel between characters, and in children's movies - the death of parents. Seriously, at one time in children's films the mothers died so often that we had a family joke, that Americans probably consider parent`s death us something funny.
If we try to find the right approach, then A.P. Chekhov said: "There is no need to write books specifically for children. Children need to be given those works of adults that they can understand." In my opinion, this is too radical and not entirely correct, but he noted something correctly. Children's means simpler and more understandable, because they have less life experience. But dark/light, happy/sad, scary/fearless are already of secondary importance and depend on the story itself and its purpose.

[Switchblade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesnick

Personally, I perceive these shows as Kamen Rider for teenagers. They are extremely dark and bloody, the world is unfair and terrible, and the heroes are brutal, often immoral, but at the same time still cool and special. Ironically, mocking the stupidity and naivety of children's originals, these shows create an even more primitive and stupid plot. Another significant difference is that "Black Sun" is designed for an audience that sits on political forums or at least watches the news, while Amazons splash out their angst purely in the form of personal and family relationships.

So basically Kamen Rider for edgelords. Yeah, I can see that.

[GuardianAngel87]

As of now, I am up to episode 26 of Kamen Rider Ex-Aid and episode 28 of the original Kamen Rider series.

[Switchblade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuardianAngel87

As of now, I am up to episode 26 of Kamen Rider Ex-Aid and episode 28 of the original Kamen Rider series.

How are you liking Ichimonji compared to Hongo?

[GoldenXtreme]

I watched Kamen Rider X. Like most Showa Rider, it is very standard stuff, but there were certainly intriguing bits that would have made for a more interesting show if they had been explored more!

The early parts of the plot are honestly quite interesting. Keisuke is just a normal guy who ends up becoming a Kamen Rider, and he ended up feeling less emotionally distant because of that, often having nice moments interacting with characters. This is also combined with some very dark early episodes, including an absolutely unbelievable one about a monster that drives elementary and middle schoolers to kill themselves. There is also a nice sense of mystery with KyokoThe tone of these early episodes seems to have largely been driven by writer Shukei Nagasaka, who is probably best known for being the madlad behind the vast majority of Kaiketsu Zubat's episodes. He dropped off the show early on however, and after that the show ended up just losing everything unique as it settled into the same old Showa Rider mold with only a few standout aspects from then on. Like yeah Apollo Geist's suave behavior and rivalry with X were neat and I definitely laughed at some of the historical figure monsters like the iconic Starfish Hitler, but it just wasn't the same. There was even an episode that was just literally the plot of Kikaider 01 (two boys who get the blueprint for a dangerous invention inscribed on their backs), which is an awfully questionable show to rip off.

So I guess like many Showa Rider shows it was fine, even a bit fun, but didn't break much new ground and wasn't the kind of Showa tokusatsu I get excited for. Super-1 is the only Showa Rider I haven't seen now, and I know that is one that has a notable contingent of fans...