[DreamSword]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadScientistWorkin

I mean Im not the one complaining about classic genre tropes acting like its something unique to Kamen Rider.

Never said it was unique to Kamen Rider, just that it's been a trend with the string of KR shows I've seen lately. Please read carefully before replying, thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Without you specifying the problem, I'm not sure what Zeztz has done here to disappoint you. What exactly were you wrong about?

I suppose it's less something super specific and moreso just how the general vibe of the show hit a big shift with these recent episodes. I've far too often seen episodes like these pretty much tell the audience "All that stuff we presented before? Forget about it. New direction now." And as one who was very much liking how Zeztz was up to now, it just feels disappointing.

[GuardianAngel87]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadScientistWorkin

I mean Im not the one complaining about classic genre tropes acting like its something unique to Kamen Rider.
EDIT:
In fact if anything this is the only time I've really seen a "berserk Kamen Rider form really work.

It doesn’t mean he has to like it though. I figured ZEZTZ is going to pull some form of BS like this and I only have seen Ex-Aid and merely heard about what goes on in Zero-One and Geats considering that Takahashi clearly can’t seem to control himself in that regard. If it weren’t for the fact that the show is available to watch on a weekly basis on TokuSHOUTsu’s YouTube channel and me following the series right from the very start, I would’ve hold off on watching ZEZTZ until sometime after the show officially completes its run.

[Frontier]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

Right out of the gate, Baku is actually credited as "Code number: Seven" in the opening, which is a fine detail that starts things off on the right foot, for sure. The actual episode then begins with The Lady giving probably the single most straightforward exposition dump this show has ever had, which I'm less sure I like? The fact that that a cut here subtly calls attention to her and Nem's matching butterfly accessories kinda illustrates what my issue is. It's like -- *that's* how ZEZTZ likes to talk, usually. That's why I got it in my head that it was significant we never saw the Zeroider actually being controlled. This is a show that frequently has deliberately vague dialogue, and even vague situations, but also lots of incredibly specific things it does visually that it wants you to be paying attention to. (See also: the saga of NOX's ring.) So even with a flashback to add the necessary element of showing to all the telling going on, it almost felt blasphemous to have so much crucial information delivered in such a standard fashion after all this time. The clarity is nice, yes, but I have this nagging thought in the back of my head that it still could've somehow been presented in a more ZEZTZ-y manner than it was. Probably not a huge deal, for how much I'm talking about it! But honestly, in spite of all the new details, I don't have much to say yet about how it affects my view of The Lady or Nem, and their roles in the series. Definitely something I'll be curious to see play out now, though, so my issue is absolutely not with the revelations themselves. The Lady in particular is a very strong presence here, and her having so much to do is one of the best things about the episode, even.

I think there's still stuff they were deliberately leaving out of Lady's story like what her ultimate endgame with the Nightmares was and what world she sought to create by destroying it with the Nightmares she was creating.

But knowing now that the "real world" might not be what we thought it was, it might actually explain some of why the Nightmares functioned as they did.

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Baku's end of things is the most present-tense part of the story, and I'm still liking that stuff enough that I sort of refuse to dignify his delusional fantasies the way the credits do. The dialogue in this show might not always be specific when it comes to facts, but it's definitely very precise when doing things like having Baku immediately respond with concern about Minami when The Lady brings up his sister. You know, the one he insists he doesn't have anymore. Fitting for the dramatic low point of the overall narrative, this is probably the most pathetic Baku has ever been, to the point I honestly kinda get why CODE puts him down like a rabid dog in the end. He gave up everything to become stronger, but it only seemed to make him weaker in just about every way that matters. He consciously alienates his family and allies, and even turns his back on CODE, all in the name of a noble mission that he ultimately fails to carry out. Sure, he does literally Find Nem, but does he even remember what the point of finding her was by the time he gets there? What does a Seven that uncaringly walks by people in distress have left to offer her?

One could argue he became a rabid dog of CODE's own making that they cut down when they didn't need any more or couldn't rely on him to follow orders.

I think he did remember Nem beneath everything, though, because knowing Lady was her mother and Nem didn't want her to hurt him was the only thing that held him back and undid Catastrom.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenXtreme

Boy, if this show hadn't lost me already it certainly would have at this point. This is an issue I often run into with Takahashi, where the writing starts emphasizing sensationalism over... pretty much everything else. Agh, I'm gonna go watch Gavan Infinity and hopefully actually enjoy myself.

Speaking as someone who has watched Zero-One and Geats, I feel like their twists usually have at least some set-up and foreshadowing, and I feel with the premise of the show and how certain events have played out that this isn't all that out of left field either.

Like thinking on it, all the vague stuff NOX was always alluding to might have meant a lot more than we ever took at face-value.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamSword

I suppose it's less something super specific and moreso just how the general vibe of the show hit a big shift with these recent episodes. I've far too often seen episodes like these pretty much tell the audience "All that stuff we presented before? Forget about it. New direction now." And as one who was very much liking how Zeztz was up to now, it just feels disappointing.

I don't think they're telling everyone to forget or act like the past half didn't happen. It might not have been 100% "real" but it's still probably going to inform or effect Baku and the cast moving forward.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuardianAngel87

It doesn’t mean he has to like it though. I figured ZEZTZ is going to pull some form of BS like this and I only have seen Ex-Aid and merely heard about what goes on in Zero-One and Geats considering that Takahashi clearly can’t seem to control himself in that regard. If it weren’t for the fact that the show is available to watch on a weekly basis on TokuSHOUTsu’s YouTube channel and me following the series right from the very start, I would’ve hold off on watching ZEZTZ until sometime after the show officially completes its run.

Is it really BS? Like this is the one show that could pull of an Inception-level twist and have it make sense. People were calling it as a possibility pretty early on too.

[JusticeMagnum]

I saw an interesting theory online about what Baku has to do in this new route with the knowledge he has now:

1. Stop the Bomber Nightmare before it escapes into the real world. That way the massive outbreak of Nightmares never occurs (also it we wouldn't have to redo every Nightmare scenario or shotgun through them since a decent chunk of them probably wouldn't occur.)

2: Return Nox to the real world before he gets a chance to become Nox Knight again. That way Baku won't get the Nox elimination mission (or at least it will delay it) and stay in CODE's favor for a little while longer.

[DreamSword]

I've thought about it, and I have two theories I'd like to propose about what next episode might be about:

1. If it's an indirect continuation: An episode about what Baku is seeing now that he's sealed inside of Seven.

2. If it's a direct continuation: The show somehow has the balls to say that Seven is now dead and all that's left is Baku. I highly doubt this one is gonna be the case, but it's possible.

[Frontier]

To be honest I'm just wondering about the mechanics.

Was everything in the series up to this point a dream Baku had after passing out in episode 1? Was it a prophetic dream?

How many characters were aware of it? NOX? CODE? Lady?

Is this why NOX was willing to go along with stuff like the Meteor and Disaster Nightmare destroying the world because he knew it wasn't "real?" Why he was so focused on waking 7 up?

Is CODE trying to "reboot" him back into a normal agent even if he might still have his memories from the dream?

[Mesnick]

A very dark episode, full of unexpected revelations. It turns out Lady was Agent Two. Now it's clear how they worked together with NOX. Also, although I correctly predicted that CODE was hunting Nem, the story of her birth turned out to be much darker. Unsurprisingly, Lady eventually went crazy from the experience. And the years without sleep only made things worse. It also shows that Nem is not the source of the Nightmares. Or rather, not the source of all Nightmares. I wonder if we'll see her father, Nightmare, or the one behind everything that happened?
Also, Catastrome turned out to be Seven-CODE in approach, but not in loyalty. For he has no intention of fulfilling their missions, which, combined with his immense power, makes the spies perceive him as an enemy. Baku also literally abandons people in distress, which justifies what happens next. Although the ending suggests that this could have been a test or the work of the subconscious.
I should also note how realistic and sterile the CODE base looks. And the number of extras killed brings to mind the first phase of Heisei. Although the whole effect is ruined by the realization that Lady, apparently, lived somewhere nearby, since Nem was able to run in so quickly. I know this is dream logic, but this is something I noticed right away and couldn't share.
Another noteworthy thing is how much Three's hand with the gun was shaking. I wonder if this meant something or if the actor is simply not used to such scenes. The fight scenes in this episode are simply excellent, especially in the elevator and with the Demon King. Although seeing him in this episode slightly diminished the impact of defeating him in the previous one.
We also saw Zero's human form. Possibly. And he's an asshole. Also possible.
Speaking of the ending, it's a dirty trick, but with the dream theme, it was bound to be used sooner or later. Next week, we'll find out how much of what was shown was true and how much was just a warning. Perhaps NOX was showing Baku the darkness of the CODE in this way, since explaining it with words isn't his style.
Overall, I'm confused, but intrigued.

[Mesnick]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frontier

Like thinking on it, all the vague stuff NOX was always alluding to might have meant a lot more than we ever took at face-value.

I don't think they're telling everyone to forget or act like the past half didn't happen. It might not have been 100% "real" but it's still probably going to inform or effect Baku and the cast moving forward.

Is it really BS? Like this is the one show that could pull of an Inception-level twist and have it make sense. People were calling it as a possibility pretty early on too.

The twist is obvious, but is the timing so opportune? I have a feeling another "dark" episode with a major revelation (or deception?) of the motives of СODЕ wouldn't be out of place. Plus, it's only halfway through the show, and I think many viewers are worried that this trope will be overused.

[Mesnick]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Babies look androgynous and have no concept of pronouns, so people sometimes use "it" in a sarcastic way. A parent using it is a little weird, but not inherently wrong.

I think, given the extraordinary circumstances, Lady's reaction can be forgiven. It could also be just another misunderstanding by the translators.