[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

I will say, on a broader thematic sorta level, I do really appreciate the contrast Tachibana's presence helps create between the dynamics of Fourze and Meteor -- Ryuusei having this single very impersonal... benefactor, more than even an ally, against the big warm circle of friends that is the KRC.

Y'know, that's fair. It certainly helps put Ryuusei's mental state into context -- he's got Gentarou going "Oh, yeah, trusting people and making friends is great, like with my grandad, who took me in after my parents both died mysteriously doing a job that we're definitely not going to talk about right now", while Ryuusei's thinking "I was approached at my most emotionally vulnerable by a masked weirdo named after a Showa father-figure, who even now hangs literally as a Sword of Damocles over my head, floating judgmentally in a geosynchronous orbit, ready to rob me of my ability to save my comatose friend if I ever let a single living soul know my secret identity or the source of my powers. Trusting people is SO GREAT."

[DreadBringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER FOURZE EPISODE 23 - “TEAMING UP WITH SWANS”

Despite the presence of Cancer as a new Horoscope to deal with, this one had a real old-school Fourze feel to me. There’s a Zodiart, it’s running around causing trouble, all while a new subculture of students enters the picture. There’s not much in the way of escalating conflict – Cancer might as well be a more talkative early-days Scorpion, and none of the other Horoscopes get involved in this story – and stuff like Meteor’s secret identity is a fun wrinkle, nothing that’s really driving the plot. (Ryuusei does get to ask the big Can A Zodiart Be Good question, but this episode answers it with a resounding Not Cygnus.) It’s just the viewer meeting some weird new characters, and exploring a bizarre hero-worshipping subculture that’s grown at Amanogawa High.

It's obviously a different one in the beginning where a Zodiart is supposedly heroic and saving people from thugs. But turns out that Cygnus wants praise and adoration to be worshipped by others, and presenting himself as a hero is a good way to draw people in. Though Cygnus doesn't cause problems and pretend to be a hero. Cygnus feels Light Yagami-like to strive to create the ideal society where other than beating up criminals, he'd remove anyone he deems unworthy for his ideal society, in this case, anyone who defies and objects to him, or as Misa noted, people who are 'punk, 'idiot', or 'goth' being unworthy of the ideal society.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

But it’s all pretty bonkers, so I don’t know what else you can do besides let this story of Temu Sieg play out until the heel turn. There’s some fun stuff to potentially interrogate with hero worship, and drawing the wrong lessons from warriors, and whatever is going on with Eguchi and Misa, but, again: sort of too much bizarre Ugly Duckling stuff to define for there to be much storytelling pushing things forward. The details are super weird and fun, so it’s never boring, but I definitely got to the end of this episode feeling like there were a bunch of details, but I wasn’t sure what story was being told yet.

I've seen this kind of thing happened in other media (not KR). As Tomoko noticed, it's indeed a cult thing to have its members doing a practice to keep chanting one of their rituals or such. The 'training' Misa talks about is brainwashing them, constantly chanting rituals eliminate critical thinking and questioning. As a first watcher here, I'd assume it may be done to get Cygnus' followers to defend and overlook any of Cygnus' true colors, to enable Cygnus' villainy further.

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

I like the details a lot, though: great to see Miu corralling both Kengo’s bruised ego (he really wants Gentarou to stop doing anything other than testing Giant Foot!!!) and Shun’s weird footwear anxiety to get the investigation moving forward in a very offscreen way; any time spent on the chemistry between Tomoko and Ryuusei is a winner; I’m sure Ryuusei’s conversation with Tachibana won’t take on a great significance down the line; of course Gen and Yuuki both almost end up joining a heroic cult; and oh my god Gentarou scored a 4 out of 100 on his test.

Ryusei exposes himself again in him fending off Cygnus briefly with his martial arts, when he's supposed to be the another 'coward' of KRC. Meteor holds himself back from striking Tomoko, but I can still feel that Meteor has a soft spot for Tomoko specifically for KRC, rather than any other people in general (guess this one can be about shipping). Obviously Cygnus would deny himself friendship from real hero like Fourze, as he'd stop Cygnus from doing crimes (labeled as right by himself obviously), but Meteor seems to be an easier target for Cygnus to punish and make him look bad.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

Meteor holds himself back from striking Tomoko, but I can still feel that Meteor has a soft spot for Tomoko specifically for KRC, rather than any other people in general (guess this one can be about shipping).

Any read is valid at this point, but I think these two teenagers got a romantic connection!

[Kamen Rider Die]

KAMEN RIDER FOURZE EPISODE 28 - “THE STAR SHOWER RESUMES”



Okay, now I’m remembering why I wasn’t crazy about Ryuusei’s story in general, or Tachibana’s part in particular.

It’s the stipulation that Ryuusei has to keep everything a secret, and the way that reinforces his natural tendency towards isolationism and subterfuge. And, I get it – that’s intentional! That is an on-purpose choice to make Ryuusei’s character work harder to overcome his disinclination to let the KRC in, and to make his gradual, some might glacial rate of connecting with the rest of the cast on a deeper level into something that feels earned and valued, rather than perfunctorily tacked on to the end of a two-parter. (Ryuusei won’t even do the club handshake after these seven weirdos wagered their souls on whether a duplicitous and withholding grump would make a space crab’s tight deadline!) The more restrictions on Ryuusei – the more he has to shine brighter than the darkness surrounding him – the greater the eventual dawn for his character. You gotta let that story spread out, and take time, or it doesn’t mean anything.

That’s the intent, and I get it. What I have to deal with is the viewing experience for me, though.

I hate it, a little bit? I hate that this story could've been a natural and emotional end to this plot, and felt like more than enough, but it's somehow still going on. I hate Ryuusei still having to keep his identity as Meteor a secret, after 13 episodes now, because it feels partially insane that the crew still hasn’t put it together yet, when they crack harder and more obfuscated Switch Stories every other week. I hate that Tachibana teaches his teenage ward a lesson about friendship that required several brutal beatings at the hands/claws of a space crab that has zero compunction about killing anyone who crosses him, and also Tachibana still won’t let Ryuusei come clean with the very people who taught Ryuusei the actual lesson that Tachibana’s withholding silence very much did not. Most of all, man, I hate Meteor Storm! Too symmetrical! Gold and blue is a complete downgrade from blue and black! (The top thing… it’s dumb, but it’s the right kind of DX Toy dumb. I wouldn’t fight anyone who likes that better than the Bruce Lee moves of Meteor, even if I don’t.)

Like, this isn’t a bad episode because of all of that, but it made the Ryuusei aspects the weakest parts for me, rather than additive to the show’s original relationships. (I also think Jirou getting suddenly and inconveniently SUPER EXTRA SICK from his undefined Switch allergy is a hokey trope, but these shows sometimes gotta ratchet up the tension on their subplots somehow.) I think the KRC as a group deciding that being a friend means modeling good behavior for your friends who are a capital-p Project is a Top 5 Fourze moment, because it’s all faith and no plan. (You can tell it came from Gen!) The whole crew letting Ryuusei’s choices decide their fate – wink – is such a beautiful moment, and I completely believed that all seven of them knew it was the only way to help their friend, so they all agreed to do it, even JK, who definitely did not want to do it, and the other six made him. Then to follow that with them all whiffing so incredibly hard at entertaining Kijima, while intercutting it with Ryuusei screaming at his comatose friend about needing to see him smile again? It’s a tonal mismatch that shouldn’t work, yet totally does, because Fourze. Even when a major component of an episode does not click with me, the rest of it is so fun and perfect that I can pretty easily overlook it.

I just, man, I want this Ryuusei’s Terrible Secret Story to be over soon! I really hope we’re almost there!

[Androzani84]

Honestly, I’m not sure why they decided to have Kitajima be the climactic boss for Meteor’s storyline rather than… you know, the Horoscope Zodiarts he’s been chasing since day one.

Also, to give our arc villain a send off worthy of him, I guess you could say Kitajima died because of Cancer.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androzani84

Also, to give our arc villain a send off worthy of him, I guess you could say Kitajima died because of Cancer.

In a pinch, I'd say that the story was too focused on Kijima at the expense of the rest of the cast -- a Cancer treatment, if you will -- but I wouldn't crab if others didn't see it that way.

[DreadBringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER FOURZE EPISODE 24 - “THE MOTIVATION FOR HEROISM”

The main thing that worked for me was the Tomoko/Ryuusei date stuff. (And it’s a date! I don’t care how grumpy Ryuusei is! This was their first date!) Tomoko’s whole Manic Goth Dream Girl approach instantly snapped their scenes into focus, while Ryuusei’s typically dismissive judgment became a compelling kind of grudging indulgence, and I could’ve watched another 20 minutes easy of him standing around while she kicked her legs while laying on the ground and trying to sense Cygnus Vibes or whatever. Adorable, and my preferred wavelength for this episode’s story about how heroism is more about being there for people – like Ryuusei wasn’t and Meteor was – than it is about acclaim or adulation – like Ryuusei has to take it on the chin in order to protect Meteor’s identity and effectiveness.

Too bad that Ryusei and Tomoko's relationship can be almost ruined due to Ryusei's secret identity stuff, where he has to seem like a coward that abandons Tomoko, not knowing that Meteor is Ryusei and thus he protects Tomoko. Guess Meteor is the one pitted against Cygnus as both are liars who hide something to KRC and the public respectively. Despite Cygnus seemingly overwhelming both Riders, even without hostages to be around, seems that Cygnus got easily beaten more by Meteor at the end.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

The Ugly Ducklings never felt like a real anything, especially Misa, who’s mysteriously good at ballet now (JK brings this up like it’s a clue, but it never comes up again or gets explained) and is just some psychotic fan for a merciless hero. I feel like her iciness demands more spotlight than she got – there’s too much to do with unraveling Eguchi’s connection to Cygnus – and what’s left is some wild-eyed acolyte who gets betrayed by the hero she worshipped. It’s hard to get a sense of her personality or goals, beyond hero worship and dancing (???), so her comeuppance lacks any real weight. She was a two-dimensional crazy lady that believed in the wrong prophet. There’s no moves to her character, so there’s no catharsis or shock to her getting used as a hostage by Cygnus.

Misa was introduced as performing a ballet, so it should be obvious. But yeah, I don't understand her purpose as how she was seemingly just Cygnus' right-hand woman, but as Misa wasn't Cygnus as the trailer showed, she's the one really pulling the strings in her forcing Eguchi to press the Switch, making Cygnus a puppet king for her ambitions. It feels contrived to have Misa want to be worshipped and be completely dependent on a monster to do that, but she doesn't seem to get involved with the school body or Horoscopes, where Hayami only warns Kijima here, not interacting with Misa which can explain how she gets to form a cult. Guess this is the biggest letdown for Fourze to me too so far.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Eguchi didn’t really do it for me either, and I generally love stories about people finding the heroism in the mundane. I just never quite got his character enough to make sense of him. Cygnus is the part of him that wants to be a hero, but for all the times it’s stated, I don’t see any of that in the Eguchi character that’s onscreen? Eguchi admires heroes, sure – he adorably dresses up like Fourze at the end and everything, doing little good deeds like his favorite space hero. But the concept of Cygnus as his ideal self, that never tracks for me? Eguchi doesn’t ever seem to want power, or adulation, or respect, or anything we’d normally think of as the downstream effects of heroism; Eguchi is just a guy who wants to celebrate heroism, even though we’re told he wants to be a hero. But there’s no moment where it’s articulated why he wants to be a hero, or what he thinks being a hero is, or how he’s even getting it wrong. He’s just ignoring people in distress, but not doing anything besides that, or suggesting that heroes don't help people. He doesn’t ever seem to covet the fandom that Cygnus cultivates, or live vicariously through Cygnus’s heroic deeds. And if the point is that Eguchi worships heroes instead of living their ideals – which is where I think this episode’s trying to land – I don’t know that him patterning himself off of Fourze instead of Cygnus is some huge character growth.

It's stated that Cygnus embodies the dark side of Eguchi, and he's shown to be a coward who takes people hostage, and that the human Eguchi only embodies the good. But yeah, by this I rather wonder if cowardice is what Eguchi have even in his normal self like ignoring people in distress, where Cygnus just amplifies that by taking people hostage, of which Gentaro improved Eguchi by having him actually take action to retrieve a balloon for Yuki. And it makes sense why Gentaro ignored those people in distress as they're just KRC disguised as bystanders. After Eguchi stops being a coward (where I can be on similar position as this too, as I wouldn't always know what to do or having the answer put into that position), he no longer needs the Astroswitch.