[Frontier]

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Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

I didn't really mention this beyond Fujimi's goofy finishing move, but I did really enjoy that the episode made it a point to have Baku's allies involved in the action? With everything else going on, it'd be easy to forget to make a big deal out of it, but as I remember, the show (perhaps consciously) held off on having anyone who wasn't already a lucid-dreaming agent actually directly confront Nightmares any of the previous times they were attacking the "real" world. So having the whole crew show up, and having dedicated beats for them like Fujimi finally getting a chance to lay the smackdown on one, or Minami immediately grabbing a gun since we know she's really an agent now, it all stresses the extra "realness" of the situation this time around, which is good, because without a way to level up the scale like that, that part of the plot probably wouldn't have felt particularly fresh.

This is also the really real first time Zeztz has appeared in the real world, let alone seen by other people, it's the Zeztz that Baku created.

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One thing I like about the structure as it is now is that it implicitly makes Baku's struggle within his own mind the "fight" scene for this episode that lacks any and all Rider action? Baku finally transforms at the very end, but it's more like the finishing move, right down to defeating the actual monsters. I can see how the normal thing to do would've been something along the lines of Baku dying as the shocking cliffhanger, and then him building the new Driver as the premise for the back half, which would climax with a proper fight scene for the new form right away, but I feel like we'd lose out on a beautiful point this episode ends up making, intentionally or otherwise, by making the struggle of creation itself a battle worthy of just being the climax of an episode.

Also they weren't going to waste the Final Form against some scrub Nightmares when it's clearly intended to fight against Dawn.

[Mesnick]

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Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

The ZEZTZ Room is a essentially a direct reflection of Baku's own heart, so it only makes sense his enemies have no place in it.

What kind of fighter is he then if there's no room for an enemy in his heart? Besides, while I'm not against the term "heart," the character himself speaks of "subconscious." In the same episode where Dawn tries to convince Nem that subconsciously she hates dreamers. And earlier, Baku's own subconscious gave birth to the Catastrom. So I think evil could very well appear there.
But even if we accept that villains are out of place at the base, it's possible to engage in a dialogue with oneself, as was the case in Gavv and Geats. In any case, it would help avoid misconceptions. Of course, a variety of interpretations is good, but it's still worth eliminating those that directly contradict the sence. Here again, it's appropriate to recall Geats, where, in my opinion, each viewer interprets Аce's motives and path differently.

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Deep down, when he sets about to his long labor, Baku worries he's being irrational in believing he can fix his Driver himself, so Fujimi and Nasuka act as the voices of the rational, as they often have for him.

We are probably thinking of different Fujimis.

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As the grueling effort begins to wear him down both physically and emotionally, Minami, Nem, and even Odaka are the faces that speak for the part of Baku who wonders how anything could be worth this suffering, because all of them are people who Baku knows have cared about him getting himself hurt.

I think Minami appeared almost immediately after Nasuka, and Odaka and Nem appeared much later. But that's a minor detail.
What's not a small thing is that the show is currently in a state of constant unraveling and unfolding events. Minami and Zero's secrets have been revealed, CODE's leadership has changed, Lady has entered the dream world for the first time since the birth of Nem, Baku has lost his power, died, and been resurrected with renewed vigor. And all this without a single break or respite. Even the ostensibly lengthy driver repair was allotted no more than ten minutes. Perhaps those who are on the same wavelength with the show enjoy this, but personally, I'm starting to get tired, like sleeping while sick. When you feel like you're being suffocated by a creep, and you dream only of breathing freely. And even if the dream is very interesting and captivating, enjoying it in such conditions is problematic.

[Frontier]

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Originally Posted by Mesnick

What kind of fighter is he then if there's no room for an enemy in his heart? Besides, while I'm not against the term "heart," the character himself speaks of "subconscious." In the same episode where Dawn tries to convince Nem that subconsciously she hates dreamers. And earlier, Baku's own subconscious gave birth to the Catastrophe. So I think evil could very well appear there.

I think it was more like Catastrophe was put into or hopped into his head when he was a kid rather than Baku creating him. Especially from what we're seeing of the Gore Class Nightmares.

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We are probably thinking of different Fujimis.

Fujimi can be the voice of reason, on occasion.

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I think Minami appeared almost immediately after Nasuk, and Odaka and Nem appeared much later. But that's a minor detail.
What's not a small thing is that the show is currently in a state of constant unraveling and unfolding events. Minami and Zero's secrets have been revealed, CODE's leadership has changed, Lady has entered the dream world for the first time since the birth of Nem, Baku has lost his power, died, and been resurrected with renewed vigor. And all this without a single break or respite. Even the ostensibly lengthy driver repair was allotted no more than ten minutes. Perhaps those who are on the same wavelength with the show enjoy this, but personally, I'm starting to get tired, like sleeping while sick. When you feel like you're being suffocated by a creep, and you dream only of breathing freely. And even if the dream is very interesting and captivating, enjoying it in such conditions is problematic.

Now you know how Baku feels!

[Fish Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesnick

What kind of fighter is he then if there's no room for an enemy in his heart? Besides, while I'm not against the term "heart," the character himself speaks of "subconscious." In the same episode where Dawn tries to convince Nem that subconsciously she hates dreamers. And earlier, Baku's own subconscious gave birth to the Catastrom. So I think evil could very well appear there.

There's usually not much meaningful distinction between these two things in ZEZTZ, but when I speak of the ZEZTZ Room as a reflection of Baku's heart, I'm referring more to the general symbolism of how it's used in the story than I am the rules of how it works in the universe. There really isn't any reason they *couldn't* have had some apparition of Sieg taunting Baku with the futility of his work in that sequence, but I believe the fact they avoided that route to be a conscious choice, consistent with the overall "language" of the room as Baku's fortress -- the place where he's most safe, and (usually) most in control. It's part of his subconscious, yes, but it's also the bridge between that and his conscious mind, and is also demonstrably not the whole of his subconscious, given the ruins we saw the Catastrophe Gore Nightmare residing in, among other things.

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Originally Posted by Mesnick

We are probably thinking of different Fujimis.

The Fujimis we're both thinking of might actually be pretty similar, but again, the point I'm making is more about the Fujimi Baku thinks of, who, alongside Nasuka, is very much one of the adults in the room who helps keep him grounded in the real world.

Something to mention that might help clarify my position further is that I see Baku as a fundamentally humble character. I think he has a great deal of respect and admiration for his friends and family precisely because he doesn't always respect himself that much. People have been poking fun at how strange it is he still refers to himself as a "normal guy" in the opening narration, but I think, when the show is willing to change the opening itself before it changes his word choice there, it's probably a deliberate decision to keep it? And I think part of the motivation for leaving it would be because, since the narrator is Baku himself, rather than an omniscient voice, it speaks to his own perspective.

I don't think he can be imagining his friends as nagging naysayers there because I don't believe Baku thinks highly enough of his own judgment to think the criticism is unwarranted or ill-meaning, even if it might come off as such to us. I think the root of that whole bit of direction is not about whether Baku thinks his friends would support him, but how he knows they'd accept that he's put himself through more than enough already if he ever decided to quit. (Which is likely another reason Zero specifically is the guy who doesn't say anything.) Baku doesn't think of himself as anyone special, but he ultimately chooses to believe even an "unremarkable" person like him can still accomplish remarkable things with enough dedication, even though it's tough for someone like him to see his own dedication as having the kind of value he sees in the dedication of those close to him.

I don't know. I think it's a great sequence, and I think the way the supporting cast play into it gives it much of its depth in a way that just wouldn't be as easy to accomplish if they tried to accomplish it with other characters filling that general role, or having Baku genuinely being alone the entire time.

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Originally Posted by Mesnick

In any case, it would help avoid misconceptions. Of course, a variety of interpretations is good, but it's still worth eliminating those that directly contradict the sence.

I guess I just don't think that's a dream that can (or even really should) come true, then? Everything I've ever observed about the way people interact with media suggests to me there is no amount of effort that can prevent people from interpreting a work in ways not intended by a creator. Clarity is always something worth aiming for, but even something clear will hold different meanings for different people, so the purpose of clarity can't be eliminating those interpretations. Just like how I can offer my own interpretation of the show as another viewer, but I can't demand you accept it over your own.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesnick

What's not a small thing is that the show is currently in a state of constant unraveling and unfolding events. Minami and Zero's secrets have been revealed, CODE's leadership has changed, Lady has entered the dream world for the first time since the birth of Nem, Baku has lost his power, died, and been resurrected with renewed vigor. And all this without a single break or respite. Even the ostensibly lengthy driver repair was allotted no more than ten minutes. Perhaps those who are on the same wavelength with the show enjoy this, but personally, I'm starting to get tired, like sleeping while sick. When you feel like you're being suffocated by a creep, and you dream only of breathing freely. And even if the dream is very interesting and captivating, enjoying it in such conditions is problematic.

I can sympathize with this feeling, admittedly, since it's very similar to what I went through watching Takahashi's first Rider show a decade ago. One of the things everybody seemed to love about Ex-Aid was the rapid tempo it moved at, but I spent a lot of its run wishing it would slow down and breathe for a bit on occasion. It can be a struggle to get into that sort of rhythm if it just isn't what you're looking for in the moment, for sure.

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Originally Posted by Frontier

Now you know how Baku feels!

It was just a quick joking aside from Nem in the second(?) episode, but I still think back a lot to her line about how Baku has to do his job even when he's sleeping, as all these events keep piling up. It's a little terrifying how accurate Baku was when he told that therapist work ate up almost 100% of his life. And even that therapist was also a villain he was fighting as part of work!