[DreamSword]

Now up to episode 13 of the Agito rewatch, and if memory serves, this is about the point where Agito started to jive with me alot more back when I first watched it.

And assuming I'm not misremembering, I can definitely see why. Character humor starts getting alot better at around this time, the mystery aspects become alot more interesting, and the action becomes way cooler(especially if I'm remembering how episode 14 goes correctly).

Granted, the power of hindsight sorta creates a roadstop in terms of anything regarding the overall plot, as I remember it being pretty much total nonsense. But hey, maybe the dub script will get me to appreciate it a little more?

Speaking of the dub, I forgot to note it before, but it definitely surprised me to hear "Henshin!" localized as "Rider Change!" I'll definitely take that over Dragon Knight's' utterly lackluster "Kamen Rider" callout.

[Locke]

I am watching through Agito for the first time as well. I am about 10 episodes in. I am shocked by how much I am enjoying it, as I remember not liking Kuuga much at all, but I think I am a very different person compared to the me who was watching these shows 10+ years ago.

I am also watching Amazons as well, and wanted to wait until I finished the first season to drag my thoughts together, but Amazons feels like the antidote to modern Rider, and Agito is a reminder of how things used to be, and don't get me wrong I don't universally hate modern Rider, I was just in here being positive about Gavv and Zeztz latest arc, but it does feel like there was a real shift in the last decade or so in turning Rider into a set of loud jangling keys, as CG bullshit is ADHD'd into the audiences face, with the barest of plots bolted around them, and it makes me weirdly nostalgic for early 00s Rider, and shows that riff on those vibes, even though I actually didn't really live through it to have that traditional nostalgia.

I will say I do feel with a lot of these early shows, you watch 15+ minutes of drama which exists almost regardless of the Riders in the show, and then in the couple of minutes episode wrap up the Rider will run in and destroy the monster. I vaguely remember all those years ago having a real issue with that in Faiz especially, but my vague memory also suggests to me I didn’t particularly like what was going on outside of the Rider stuff, so I effectively sat through a bunch of drama I didn’t care about to get a cool fight at the end, and it just didn’t balance for me.

I say allathat, cause while Agito does have that same sort of episode balance, at least so far, when Agito isn’t slowly spinning on the spot before the monster randomly explodes and when Agito isn’t dealing with its own contrived character drama, a lot of Agito so far just sorta feels like some sort of obscure J-Horror you would have been tape traded in the 90s, and I mean that in the best possible of ways.

It also faces head on the consequences of the conflict, the weight on the shoulders of the characters and the human cost of the regular people caught in the middle, in a way later Rider series don’t seem to be allowed to do, at least not as directly.

I will say a big part of the unsettling vibe might actually be unintentional, and that is around the acting. Takes often feel like they run a little too long, performances are often stiff, with odd, unnaturally paced, conversations where it feels much more like actors reading lines than a real interaction. I think for the most part it adds to the overall strangeness of the package in a positive way, but I am also less sensitive to weaker acting when there is a language barrier between us, and I think I’d have had a harder time finding a positive if this was an English drama, being honest. Plus, even if this is intended, like I dunno if that is a good thing? Act bad so we can increase how odd this feels? Like why not just have good acting and achieve this feel through the filmmaking?

I also want to say that while it is quite dated in terms of the special effects and clunkiness of the action, I do really like the monster designs. They do look a bit like Halloween costumes when they zoom in, but when they aren’t in close up, I think they look actually a lot better than many modern monster designs where look like massive foam mascot suits the actors can seemingly barely move in. I like how they also either animate or move the eyes and mouths too, making it more convincing as a biological creature rather than a big rubber sock.

And what the fight scenes may lack in polished choreography or flashy special effects, they make up for in other ways, like how full of atmosphere and vibes all the fights are. A lot of modern Rider action is obviously a lot more polished than what they do here, but is also constructed in a way that is far more functional than intentional. It is why I have been really impressed with the action in Zeztz, even during the weaker portions of the show for me, because it feels like they tell and advance the story though the action, it isn't just the toy advert they are mandated to include, and I don't feel like I have really felt that about a modern Rider show in a while.

The way the creative team light the Agito action scenes, frame them, even down to the locations they pick, it just feels like poetry in motion, which would probably feel crazy to say to anyone on the outside given its just a guy rolling about on the floor with a dude in an octopus mask.

I also think the scrappiness of the action actually sorta works in the context too, with there being this physicality and violence and immediacy to the fights, which I just think fits better for this story than if everyone was flying around shooting laser beams at one another.

[Mesnick]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

I am watching through Agito for the first time as well. I am about 10 episodes in. I am shocked by how much I am enjoying it, as I remember not liking Kuuga much at all, but I think I am a very different person compared to the me who was watching these shows 10+ years ago.

I know Kuuga and Agito are often considered similar due to their appearances, their temporal proximity, and their relative location in the same world. But to me, Agito was more likely created with the idea of ​​correcting Kuuga's criticisms. Kuuga was a very simple show?Agito had a super-complex plot and incredible lore. In Kuuga, all the positive characters were flawless and got along well?while in Agito, there are conflicts between the riders and Hojo, who, despite his best intentions, only causes trouble for the heroes. And, in my opinion, Agito accomplished the task of correcting Kuuga's criticisms perfectly. Although it did create even more problems of its own.

[Sh Ranger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesnick

I know Kuuga and Agito are often considered similar due to their appearances, their temporal proximity, and their relative location in the same world. But to me, Agito was more likely created with the idea of ​​correcting Kuuga's criticisms. Kuuga was a very simple show?Agito had a super-complex plot and incredible lore. In Kuuga, all the positive characters were flawless and got along well?while in Agito, there are conflicts between the riders and Hojo, who, despite his best intentions, only causes trouble for the heroes. And, in my opinion, Agito accomplished the task of correcting Kuuga's criticisms perfectly. Although it did create even more problems of its own.

I agree that Agito was certainly a step in the right direction for Heisei Rider, introducing antiheroes, the idea that Riders can fight each other over misunderstandings and a villain faction that targets Agitos but are generally harmless to the average human. Perhaps Project RED is in its Kuuga/Agito stage right now and I'm waiting for that peak Ryuki moment to win my interest.

[Mesnick]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Perhaps Project RED is in its Kuuga/Agito stage right now and I'm waiting for that peak Ryuki moment to win my interest.

I'm more than sure that Infinity Gavan is a Kuuga Project Red. At least, that's how it's intended. Because, looking back, all the long-running tokusatsu franchises of the 21st century started out as very simple shows. Kuuga, Garo, Dogengers. So I'm very interested in what the next ones will be like.

[Locke]

I finished season one of Amazons.

Am I like crazy to say that season one of Amazons might be my new favourite Rider… anything? Feeling like the antidote to modern Rider, and the more logical evolution of the early 00s Rider than much of what we have gotten over the last decade. Amazons is a reminder of how things used to be, and just how awesome toku can be.

It is dark, it is violent, it is practical. It all feels appropriately scoped and scaled to make sure its ambitions and budget mostly meet in the middle, avoiding creating too much jarring friction with the audience as one clashes into the other (like in some other modern Rider shows). Its shift as well into two season blocks, with longer episodes, seems to do immeasurable work in improving the overall pace of the show, and feeling like it sustains constant momentum.


It is nice that huge parts of the action scenes aren’t entirely done with CG (like many modern Rider shows). Even if it may create smaller scale, less polished, fight sequences, but again, it feels like the logical evolution of the kind of action we used to get back in the early 00s in Rider. Our hero isn’t some sort of trained fighter and he isn’t using magic Bruce Lee powers, he is literally turning into a monster and fighting for his life, scratching and clawing to survive, with no real understanding of what his monster form can even do. It is immediate, visceral and violent.

I also like that it tackles the moral grey conflict slightly differently, this isn’t about two sides that both believe they are the good guys, the Bugs are effectively just animals, running on their most primal of instincts, they consume humans to live, they don’t want to destroy humanity due to some masterplan, they don’t even really want to destroy humanity at all.

We are shown Bugs throughout the series that want to just live as humans and be peaceful, but eventually the hunger just consumes them and we’re shown humans in the season that are as monstrous, if not moreso, than the Bugs. I thought this was really inspired and well handled by the show.

And I get the criticism of my criticism with a lot of this, maybe I’m just too old for toku, which is largely made for children. But like I say, it didn’t used to always be this way, I would say it is really only in the last decade or so where it really felt like Rider became a brand that was a toy advert first, with a show packed around it as a secondary consideration. It isn’t like I am asking for something unreasonable or for it to be something it hasn’t ever been, I just kinda want it to dial it back a little and maybe meet us in the middle.

And that is basically what Amazons is, the perfect toku show for the kind of person in my life I am right now and I loved it.

[Sunred]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

I finished season one of Amazons.

Am I like crazy to say that season one of Amazons might be my new favourite Rider? anything? Feeling like the antidote to modern Rider, and the more logical evolution of the early 00s Rider than much of what we have gotten over the last decade. Amazons is a reminder of how things used to be, and just how awesome toku can be.

...

And that is basically what Amazons is, the perfect toku show for the kind of person in my life I am right now and I loved it.

It's the perfect side project, IMO, for the series to try something different while doing its usual routine. Because trying something new within the constraints of terrestrial children's block can only get you so far, whereas shows like Amazons gives creators more flexibility, in comparison.