How would you make a kamen rider series better?

Locke · 06-20-2014, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IXRollOutIX

The thing is, his character doesn't NEED to be elaborate. His origins were similarly short and simple because it doesn't NEED to be complex. There's also no point in reiterating his origins more than once. He serves his role in the story all the same.

Who is asking for complexity? All I want is characters that don't feel like cardboard cut outs of human beings.

IXRollOutIX · 06-20-2014, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

Who is asking for complexity? All I want is characters that don't feel like cardboard cut outs of human beings.

Probably playing with fire here - probably changing the subject a little, too - but how does Haruto fall in to that category? What makes you get behind the two dimensional characters in Wizard, but not the ones in Gaim?

Locke · 06-20-2014, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IXRollOutIX

Probably playing with fire here - probably changing the subject a little, too - but how does Haruto fall in to that category? What makes you get behind the two dimensional characters in Wizard, but not the ones in Gaim?

Haruto was a proactive hero, with great emotional range and an absolute knack for comedic timing. I found him fun and inspiring. Plus from his Underworld, to the football episodes, to PLAIN SUGAR! and the way he plays off of his cast, we don't have some deep understanding by the end but we do get a personal connection to him. Much like we do with Kouta.

Admittedly Wizard's secondary cast were pretty weak, especially Beast who didn't really do anything until the last five episodes outclassing the main Rider of the series in doing so. But the difference is, not every single member of Wizard's supporting cast are Riders and even when some of them do become Riders it's a late game development and not something from the start. This puts different expectations on them, than we do of Gaim's supporting cast where everyone is a Rider near enough.

IXRollOutIX · 06-20-2014, 03:38 AM

In that case, maybe you're just expecting a bit much or have higher standards for what a Rider should be. In a particular series like Gaim ANYONE can become a Rider, easily making some less prominent or touched on than others. If you think each of them should have a more important role, why not complain about how Kurokage Trooper #17 has never been in the spotlight?

Locke · 06-20-2014, 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IXRollOutIX

In that case, maybe you're just expecting a bit much or have higher standards for what a Rider should be. In a particular series like Gaim ANYONE can become a Rider, easily making some less prominent or touched on than others. If you think each of them should have a more important role, why not complain about how Kurokage Trooper #17 has never been in the spotlight?

Here we go...

Are the Kurokage troopers part of the main cast? No, obviously not. Was that even a question?

MaskedRiderAsakura · 06-20-2014, 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

So you basically agree with everything I said then?

No. What you said is that his motivations have been unclear. His motivations aren't unclear. He's motivated by a strong desire to maintain status quo, which means lying to his friends and protecting them from information that may ruin their blissful ignorance.

His goals change, but only when new information is available to him. He becomes a rider so he can be like Kouta. He sides with Yggdrasil in order to protect his friends. He sides with Sid so that he can utilize his powers for his own benefit. And he sides with Redyue because he thinks Redyue will let him create his ideal world.

Micchy definitely has reasons for his actions. They're obviously flawed and likely won't produce his desired outcome, but he's the bad guy for a reason. But it's not like his entire character arc has been him committing random acts of backstabbing for no reason.

MaskedRiderAsakura · 06-20-2014, 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

Here we go...

Are the Kurokage troopers part of the main cast? No, obviously not. Was that even a question?

Bravo and Gridon aren't part of the main cast either, yet you similarly complain that they don't have any character development.

Matrixbeast · 06-20-2014, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaskedRiderAsakura

Bravo and Gridon aren't part of the main cast either, yet you similarly complain that they don't have any character development.

Because they help support his argument. It's a simple tactic, really.

MaskedRiderAsakura · 06-20-2014, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matrixbeast

Because they help support his argument. It's a simple tactic, really.

He's arguing that them being Riders means that they should be held to a higher pedestal, yet if we look historically at Rider series with a large number of Riders like this one, this has never been the case. I don't know where this expectation is coming from. And furthermore, the reasons behind the creation of the Sengoku/Genesis Drivers mean that a lot of people can and will become Riders. Being a Rider alone doesn't make a character that special in this series, considering that the original plan was for, what, 1 billion people to get belts?

Locke · 06-20-2014, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaskedRiderAsakura

*snip*

Motivations to me are as much about the mental and emotional drives as they are the goal on the horizon. Emotionally and mentally, we don't understand Micchy, or Kaito or Sid or.... and so on. They all have tangible goals, granted, but the destination should never be the focus it should be why they are trying to get there.

Comparing Bravo and Jonouchi to the footsoldiers of the season just so you think you can disregard valid points when you have no other way to dispute them is straw man debating at its finest.

06-20-2014, 03:10 AM	#151
Locke Big Bad Wolf. Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Raiding tombs. Posts: 9,529	Quote: Originally Posted by IXRollOutIX The thing is, his character doesn't NEED to be elaborate. His origins were similarly short and simple because it doesn't NEED to be complex. There's also no point in reiterating his origins more than once. He serves his role in the story all the same. Who is asking for complexity? All I want is characters that don't feel like cardboard cut outs of human beings. __________________

06-20-2014, 03:24 AM	#153
Locke Big Bad Wolf. Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Raiding tombs. Posts: 9,529	Quote: Originally Posted by IXRollOutIX Probably playing with fire here - probably changing the subject a little, too - but how does Haruto fall in to that category? What makes you get behind the two dimensional characters in Wizard, but not the ones in Gaim? Haruto was a proactive hero, with great emotional range and an absolute knack for comedic timing. I found him fun and inspiring. Plus from his Underworld, to the football episodes, to PLAIN SUGAR! and the way he plays off of his cast, we don't have some deep understanding by the end but we do get a personal connection to him. Much like we do with Kouta. Admittedly Wizard's secondary cast were pretty weak, especially Beast who didn't really do anything until the last five episodes outclassing the main Rider of the series in doing so. But the difference is, not every single member of Wizard's supporting cast are Riders and even when some of them do become Riders it's a late game development and not something from the start. This puts different expectations on them, than we do of Gaim's supporting cast where everyone is a Rider near enough. __________________

06-20-2014, 03:59 AM	#155
Locke Big Bad Wolf. Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Raiding tombs. Posts: 9,529	Quote: Originally Posted by IXRollOutIX In that case, maybe you're just expecting a bit much or have higher standards for what a Rider should be. In a particular series like Gaim ANYONE can become a Rider, easily making some less prominent or touched on than others. If you think each of them should have a more important role, why not complain about how Kurokage Trooper #17 has never been in the spotlight? Here we go... Are the Kurokage troopers part of the main cast? No, obviously not. Was that even a question? __________________

06-20-2014, 03:59 AM	#156
MaskedRiderAsakura Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 2,571	Quote: Originally Posted by Locke So you basically agree with everything I said then? No. What you said is that his motivations have been unclear. His motivations aren't unclear. He's motivated by a strong desire to maintain status quo, which means lying to his friends and protecting them from information that may ruin their blissful ignorance. His goals change, but only when new information is available to him. He becomes a rider so he can be like Kouta. He sides with Yggdrasil in order to protect his friends. He sides with Sid so that he can utilize his powers for his own benefit. And he sides with Redyue because he thinks Redyue will let him create his ideal world. Micchy definitely has reasons for his actions. They're obviously flawed and likely won't produce his desired outcome, but he's the bad guy for a reason. But it's not like his entire character arc has been him committing random acts of backstabbing for no reason. __________________

06-20-2014, 04:09 AM	#157
MaskedRiderAsakura Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 2,571	Quote: Originally Posted by Locke Here we go... Are the Kurokage troopers part of the main cast? No, obviously not. Was that even a question? Bravo and Gridon aren't part of the main cast either, yet you similarly complain that they don't have any character development. __________________ Last edited by MaskedRiderAsakura; 06-20-2014 at 04:13 AM..