[Mesnick]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

As a fighter, perhaps he'd provide some extra stuff with time-based powers to Sabela's smokescreen. But with Ryoga doing the same stuff as Reika here, kinda questions why Ryoga is introduced in the series which just reduces Reika into fawning over him. He's just a male Reika that is made by diminishing said female's role as if this is something to show that only men can take charge (I'm not someone who fawns over her 'toughness' previously before this but still).

Because Bandai needed to sell one more rider and seiken)
And if within the framework of the plot, then it allows Reika to open up from that very vulnerable side, the absence of which in many modern female riders you complained several posts earlier. Yes, she now follows her brother, but this also adds additional features and depth to her character. Plus, whatever fans of the tougher Sabella say, Ryoga doesn't outshine her sister. Simply because he is too straightforward a character to outshine anyone.
Also, as controversial as their sibling dynamics may be (but I will continue to admonish that looking at their relationship as incest is very superficial and lazy), it's a very interesting and even necessary variety in the show's huge cast. And even franchise riders in general. That is, with much more screen time, there is much less interaction between Ikki and Sakura.

[AkibaSilver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

That's it, that's the show.

[Sh Ranger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesnick

If we draw the analogy further, then the tragedy in the past occurred because Yuri and Bakht did not have their own Rintaro. This makes this eclair lover even more appreciated. Still, I'm sorry that the traitor remained a faceless scoundrel with no motivation. Not that I want an excuse for him, but a more detailed disclosure of this story would clearly not hurt. Maybe someday TTFC will release a Saiko and Falchion special.

Oh man, I've been wanting that Saikou and Falchion prequel for so long now. The premise in that flashback is so intriguing that it's a shame they never expanded on that. We never got to see what Saikou looked like before he became a sword either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesnick

I can imagine it. Or even an option where he appears as the "Saber`s villain " in a crossover with Zero-One, and then returns in a summer movie, where his backstory and connection with Yuri is revealed.

Yeah, I could see Falchion being the main villain of the Saber x Zero One Movie War Whatever Generations that never happened, since the "Summer" movie was released in that Winter spot instead. We could've had an awesome climax with Saber Emotional Dragon and Zero Two (if they ever remember this form exists) fighting against him. However, I think the movie we got was still awesome and made good use of the Sentai-length runtime.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER SABER EPISODE 35 - ?ON THAT VERY DAY, I BECAME GOD?

Like, that shot up there. It?s worth an entire episode of weird arc-plot crap, easy. Real winner of a shot.

Other than the famous meme that got us here, I agree that this moment is heroic and rewarding in its own right. Touma's open-ended promise has been hanging over him like the Sword of Damocles for the last 15 years and now he finally got to keep that promise, bringing a smile to Luna's face in a way that truly shows the spirit of Kamen Rider. I'm so happy for both of these childhood best friends to be reunited after all this time, however briefly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

IF YOU?RE NOT DARK

[I]Calibur, or Espada?

Honestly, I was hoping he'd pick up Kurayami for no other reason than I was still holding on to MeiEspada theory.

I think Ikazuchi and Kurayami must have landed there on purpose, like they're doing the "wait here and see who the Swordsman chooses" trick. I do pity Ikazuchi though, being discarded as Kento in his infinite despair doesn't think he has the right to wield that sword anymore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enchilada645

I knew Running Touma would become an instant meme the moment I watched that scene in the RAW.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Why did it have to be a book?!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androzani84

Also, this was the last episode before the short lived ?Fansubs blitz?, wherein someone sent a cease and desist letter to TV-Nihon, and although a lot of people had reasons it could be a fake, it scared them into stopping subbing Sentai and Rider for a few months (more exactly, 9 months for Sentai, 15 months for Rider, with them resuming with Donbrothers and Geats respectively), and removing the episodes and movies they had subbed from both from their websites (with their later releases being on Nyaa under then name ?Anon?). Other subbing groups were also specifically scared to the point they stopped announcing new releases, or putting them on their own sites. But since hey still uploaded to Nyaa, in effect, it didn?t change much in the long run, beyond making more people look at Nyaa.

What a crazy episode to end on as well. Sure does suck that TV-Nihon had to leave everyone hanging just cause some careless guy on Twitter decided it would be a great idea to casually namedrop them to Shirakura Shinichirou. I had to switch to using IzuSubs at this point, which I continued to use for Revice. I'm grateful to them for being there for everyone at that time, but I did miss the way TV-Nihon subbed Saber. Fortunately, FlameSubs have also done an amazing job subbing the show in such high quality and I look forward to seeing the rest of my rewatch with their subs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Ha ha, I never even thought to wonder about this. She was vacuumed up to a nega-dimension! Why would things like Time and Age work the same there? Also, boy, that explanation sure makes it sound like she's not a real Homo sapiens...

Yeah, this is a case where I think headcanon is better than the official explanation. The whole imagination expiration date thing always sounds trite, especially in a fantasy show like this where the protagonist's sense of wonder only grew stronger with age. My headcanon is exactly the same as yours, that the book dimension simply exists outside of time. Not that the show seems too bothered about explaining the lack of aging anyway, considering Daishinji and Ogami.

On another note, I've been meaning to point out that a lot of Swordsmen have names starting with R:

Shindo Rintarou
Akamichi Ren
Ogami Ryo
Shindai Ryouga
Shindai Reika

[Switchblade]

I completely forgot about Touma running up that CGI. It's definitely goofy, but honestly I've seen much worse fake running in front of a green screen. Never really got why this got so much traction.

[Androzani84]

I assume it was due to his facial expressions not particularly conveying the scene well. Though to be fair, acting against nothing is, by testimony of a lot of people (Arrow’s Steven Amell expressed his frustration at having to do his death scene with tennis balls, for instance), really difficult.

[Fish Sandwich]

Fish Sandwich also watched Kamen Rider Saber Episode 35

This episode might kinda be Saber in microcosm? My post from the time is actually another one that's broadly the same as Die's in terms of the analytical conclusions it's drawing about the material. I thought it was pretty clunky in a lot of its plotting as well, but as ever with me, and more surprisingly with Die, it nails a bunch of extremely important emotional stuff to make into this thing where it's like who cares?

Touma running up that bridge, it's the closest this show has to Ondul in more ways than one. Not only it is completely hilarious, but it's also something that only gets funnier the more genuinely invested in the story you are. Like with Blade, it's something people will see out of context, and maybe they'll only know the show from that, or it's the one thing that sticks out from a series they weren't enthused by, and it's just some funny thing, but I don't believe you can maintain much of an obsession with it unless it's legitimately close to your heart at the same time.

I think those shots of Touma running are like, god-tier meme material, like everybody, but I also think the whole reason it achieves that is because Touma looks like he's more desperate to reach his destination than any human being in the history of mankind ever has been, and that also speaks to why I love the guy as a hero so much. When he makes a promise, he keeps it! It's a corny moment of storytelling with some corny special effects, delivered with such immense earnest sincerity in its emotions that I can't help but love it unironically at least as much as I do ironically. And I really love that scene ironically!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

I don't know, I get that it all seems clear and intentional to you, and I absolutely appreciate the response, but it still feels flimsy to me.

Also, I'm sorry in advance if I keep pestering you about this, Die, but if you'll forgive me for winding the conversation back an episode, I still feel like there's something really important you're fundamentally misunderstanding about the plot of 34, and it's going to bug me in the back of my head forever if I don't try and untangle this a little more before dropping it.

It might be worth noting I think I got a few things a bit twisted, too? I went back and watched some of those scenes again, and I'm pretty sure Master Logos is only addressing Reika when he says to watch Touma. (Hence why only she reacts.) This alone should begin to unravel most of what you were confused about. He wants Sabela stalking Touma so she can be there to snatch up Luna if she appears (she's good at snatching things; it's like her shtick!), which is exactly what she does, and Durendal's presence would not help that task at all, because the task Master Logos is giving there has nothing to do with fighting Saber. Hence, he goes off to fight Blades instead, continuing to pursue their ongoing task of retrieving the swords/books, and again, he literally says out loud what his interest in Rintarou is. Master Logos doesn't object to this at all until the beginning of 35, where having Luna as bait gives him a much more convenient option to bring everything together in one place.

I know I'm getting hung up on this one thing, but I really got the feeling reading that initial post about the episode that it was this vicious circle where you were paying less attention to the plot because it wasn't very meaty, but it also came off less meaty in part because you were paying less attention to the plot. The raw narrative mechanics of Kamen Rider Saber aren't what I'd consider the real juicy stuff either, but I swear, this stuff has more thought put into it than you're giving it credit for.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Layton13

I personally really like this part of the show. It's very cheesy, and the effects do not help that, but it feels earnest and earned!

It really does! It's big and dumb and heartfelt and corny, and I really liked it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesnick

And, of course, Kento's hesitation, reflected also in your fanfiction.. The plot continues to give him reasons to go astray from the path of Calibur, and Kento even notices them, but stubbornly ignores.

Kento's stubborn refusal to allow himself to not suffer for the sake of friends who would very much prefer he not suffer on their behalf is the show's most constant subplot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

This is the result of what Kamijo seeks in the beginning, series-wise for you.

I don't understand this comment. Sorry!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Yeah, this is a case where I think headcanon is better than the official explanation. The whole imagination expiration date thing always sounds trite, especially in a fantasy show like this where the protagonist's sense of wonder only grew stronger with age. My headcanon is exactly the same as yours, that the book dimension simply exists outside of time. Not that the show seems too bothered about explaining the lack of aging anyway, considering Daishinji and Ogami.

Why Isn't Luna Fifteen Years Older is, like, the eightieth question I would ask the production team if I had the chance, right after Where Are All Of Touma's Customers and right before Why Didn't You Put Mopey Kento Back In The Pop-Up Book Part Of The Opening.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

I completely forgot about Touma running up that CGI. It's definitely goofy, but honestly I've seen much worse fake running in front of a green screen. Never really got why this got so much traction.

Yeah, if I didn't know in advance it was some huge meme in the community, I probably wouldn't've called it out or remembered it? It's a little funny to look at, but I don't think it's hysterical or anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

I thought it was pretty clunky in a lot of its plotting as well, but as ever with me, and more surprisingly with Die, it nails a bunch of extremely important emotional stuff to make into this thing where it's like who cares?

I don't know where this narrative developed that I'm not willing to put aside plot concerns to appreciate the emotional successes of a series? I am completely willing to do that! I am very happy to enjoy the well-executed emotional scenes amidst episodes full of poorly-executed plot developments! I love this cast! I enjoy their struggles and root for their victories! I am against this false narrative!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

Also, I'm sorry in advance if I keep pestering you about this, Die, but if you'll forgive me for winding the conversation back an episode, I still feel like there's something really important you're fundamentally misunderstanding about the plot of 34, and it's going to bug me in the back of my head forever if I don't try and untangle this a little more before dropping it.

Thank you for the update! I... boy, I feel like this all got really overblown with me? I don't even care that much about some random (TO ME! ONLY TO ME!) Rintaro/Durandal fight, and I only really brought it up to highlight, yeah, how much the mechanics of that episode were not working for me. I can't pretend that it retroactively saves or improves that element of the episode for me, but I can definitely stop trying to (poorly) explain my concerns. I apologize for not giving it its due!

[Fish Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

I don't know where this narrative developed that I'm not willing to put aside plot concerns to appreciate the emotional successes of a series?

I mostly just meant I'm more inclined than most to say literally anything Saber does is great enough to nullify literally any potential criticism of it.

Oh, hey, and speaking of deflecting criticism of Saber!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

I... boy, I feel like this all got really overblown with me?

It did! On both our ends! I'm very sorry for dragging this out, and will now leave you alone about this largely irrelevant tangent!

[DreadBringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

I don't understand this comment. Sorry!

I mean that you complained about the show setting up a mystery about SoL traitor which Kamijo seeks, but what it eventually gives, in the traitor, is an antagonist you can get engaged with according to this comment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER SABER EPISODE 35 - “ON THAT VERY DAY, I BECAME GOD”

Boy, that was some amount of plot! It’s an episode crammed with incident, but all in service of resetting the table. Everyone shows up to Promise Park for a swordfight, Master Logos wins, but then Touma wins, but then Master Logos still maybe wins, but then it’s all probably setting up Storious doing his own version of this scheme, but then Luna’s gone anyway. There’s a massive reestablishment of the status quo here (everyone gets their swords and books back), and it made me feel justified in not really caring about the arc-plot stuff in this episode.

I guess this explains why Master Logos brought Bacht back, to be used as his pawn here, though he just laughs as he disintegrates. Other than that, results aside, Master Logos played around everyone like a fiddle, other than Bacht, he also makes use of anyone to achieve his goals like taking advantage of Kento's quest to seal all Seikens (or even probably be the one behind it in hindsight due to corrupting Kurayami), which means only Touma has a chance to stop Master Logos here, and also making use of Shindai sibling's loyalty to fight and consequently add more books for him to use, of which even Touma's victory is used for his advantage too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

This whole episode is about how much power Touma derives from his hope, and how seeing that hope rewarded, even briefly, allows him to weather more/the same hardship. He’s just dead set on rescuing Luna, no matter how absurdly stacked against him the odds are. (And yet he chides the de-sworded swordsmen for going to the park! A little hypocritical, Touma!) There’s no real plan, no real strategy. Even when Master Logos’s maneuvering drops a new/old book out of the sky, and it should be viewed at least a little skeptically, Touma slaps that thing into his belt and swings for the fences. There’s nothing but hope, and he makes it work.

Really, didn't expect for at least you to have quite accepting reaction towards, well, Luna part here, due to how those previous parts regarding her has been nothing but annoyance, due to the non-intriguing mystery, or the lack of bond that is shown between those three other than just flashbacks, compared to something like Rintaro and Mei. What foils Master Logos' plan here is yeah, Touma and Luna's bond - of which while I understand that some mysteries can be used to solve current problems, I'd think, for this one though, Touma's care is all-encompassing, so it can be just about Touma's dedication to save anyone and not strictly Luna.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

It’s an episode that doesn’t exactly rely on exceptional plotting (folks just show up and get their swords ganked) or on memorable speeches (it’s a real TOUMA! and LUNA! episode of dialogue), but weirdly nails the little moments. Those shots of Touma and Luna existing in the same space. The way Touma keeps putting himself below Luna’s sightline. Kento’s nostalgic reframing of the trio as children again, the last time it all made sense. Even Touma sitting cross-legged in front of Luna and joking/admitting that getting her back has kind of been a giant pain in the ass. All those little beats sell Touma’s struggle and achievement in a way that’ll probably stick with me long after I’ve forgotten how inconsequential the rest of this episode felt.

Here, Mei seems to quick to show open concern for Luna, seemingly by proxy after caring for Touma and Kento. About Sophia's reveal as a Luna clone, yeah it's used to only have her attempt to sacrifice herself in Luna's place, but it's shown that Master Logos don't care about her even one bit as a fake. Both Kento and Ren staying true to their character despite their outward actions of which Ren now no longer aspires to be like Kento, where Kento shields Ren and with Ren mourning over Kento's current state.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Ha ha, I never even thought to wonder about this. She was vacuumed up to a nega-dimension! Why would things like Time and Age work the same there? Also, boy, that explanation sure makes it sound like she's not a real Homo sapiens...

If everything about Luna that has been told to you by the series doesn't indicate it enough that she's not normal...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesnick

Because Bandai needed to sell one more rider and seiken)
And if within the framework of the plot, then it allows Reika to open up from that very vulnerable side, the absence of which in many modern female riders you complained several posts earlier. Yes, she now follows her brother, but this also adds additional features and depth to her character. Plus, whatever fans of the tougher Sabella say, Ryoga doesn't outshine her sister. Simply because he is too straightforward a character to outshine anyone.

Not that Reika's 'vulnerability' here is well-received by many people, but about vulnerability it's not merely adding that to characters, but also how that it seems that there's a view where characters are only okay to display a breakdown, vulnerability, etc. if they have "proven" themselves to be a bonafide badass (by being unstoppable fighter with terrible personality depicted as tough) of which it'd be praised as humanizing them instead, while otherwise characters who aren't deemed as 'badass' enough showing that are derided as being crybabies, wimps, etc. Actually for the ones I mentioned in those posts, those character types are often given occassional vulnerable moments.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Other than the famous meme that got us here, I agree that this moment is heroic and rewarding in its own right. Touma's open-ended promise has been hanging over him like the Sword of Damocles for the last 15 years and now he finally got to keep that promise, bringing a smile to Luna's face in a way that truly shows the spirit of Kamen Rider. I'm so happy for both of these childhood best friends to be reunited after all this time, however briefly.

If what you like about Saber extends to even Luna, then I'd also wonder how'd you defend her as Luna (especially on her own) seems to be even worse than Sophia for one of the most hated in the franchise. About Reika, yeah, the hate she receives is mostly after Ryoga is introduced where it's more of disappointment that her character is ruined since then instead of inherently viewing her as bad as a whole. And I wonder what'd be the time limit for promises to you if that this is fulfilled very long time after, but all before those time Touma can be accused as breaking promises.

[Mesnick]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

Not that Reika's 'vulnerability' here is well-received by many people, but about vulnerability it's not merely adding that to characters, but also how that it seems that there's a view where characters are only okay to display a breakdown, vulnerability, etc. if they have "proven" themselves to be a bonafide badass (by being unstoppable fighter with terrible personality depicted as tough) of which it'd be praised as humanizing them instead, while otherwise characters who aren't deemed as 'badass' enough showing that are derided as being crybabies, wimps, etc. Actually for the ones I mentioned in those posts, those character types are often given occassional vulnerable moments.

Um, but that make sense. If a character can be both strong and weak, both rude and soft, this is versatility. If he/she always shows only one trait or several similar ones - this is a flat character. That is, morally good characters are not necessarily good written characters. I myself like to evaluate riders, including from a civil point of view, but this is far from the only point of view. Not to mention the fact that the feelings "like / dislike" are often not explained logically in principle, because they are born in the heart, not the brain.