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07-23-2021, 12:50 AM | #851 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
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Understandable and all I can say for now is, don't give up on them yet. Without saying too much this movie is just the start of their adventure and there is a story for another day that hopefully answers that. Emphasis on hopefully as I will leave the judgement to you after you have engaged with said story.
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07-23-2021, 05:02 AM | #852 |
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Yeah, Final Countdown is a weird one. It's transitory status is honestly what holds it back the most - had it commited to being purely "Ryotaro's final swansong", or "Den-O: The Next Generation", it could probably have made those work far better, but instead it's trying to ease you out of Ryotaro and into "The Imagin and their new friends", which, ya know, obviously worked since I've watched that Pretty Den-O film within the last few months, but it means you're hung up on the memories of what Den-O used to be, while trying to set up what it will be. In this case, waiting on Ryotaro to escape the ghost train and reunite with his friends.
That's not to say it's not fun - it's certainly better than Climax Deka - but idk, Ore Tanjou still wins out. I didn't hate Kotarou, it's pretty easy to guess where his arc goes as soon as he shows up, and New Den-O's suit is gorgeous, but he'll have better showings down the line. The Imagin are as funny as ever, the villains are Rider movie villains, it's a servicable film, but not an amazing one. But still, you finished Den-O (The character)! Hope you enjoy the rest of Den-O (the franchise)!
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07-23-2021, 10:55 AM | #853 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
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Yeah, Final Countdown is a weird one. It's transitory status is honestly what holds it back the most - had it commited to being purely "Ryotaro's final swansong", or "Den-O: The Next Generation", it could probably have made those work far better, but instead it's trying to ease you out of Ryotaro and into "The Imagin and their new friends", which, ya know, obviously worked since I've watched that Pretty Den-O film within the last few months, but it means you're hung up on the memories of what Den-O used to be, while trying to set up what it will be. In this case, waiting on Ryotaro to escape the ghost train and reunite with his friends.
It feels like Kobayashi was working as hard as she could to make you hate Kotaro, and I don't know why she decided to do that? A little friction is fine; we're all going to be skeptical of our new Den-O when the old Den-O hasn't even left yet, so it's cool to play into that. But Kotaro's debut is aggressive (it's a bunch of sequences where the other characters watch Kotaro be a bad-ass) and dismissive (he constantly insults the show this movie is celebrating!), and it's such a weird hole to spend the rest of the movie digging Kotaro out of.
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07-23-2021, 09:19 PM | #854 |
Ex-Weather Three leader
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I really don't hold this movie against them, if that's not too weird to say. This movie was a going away party for Ryotaro; it's really not the place for Kotaro and Teddy to have a huge arc. I liked where the movie left them? By the end of the movie, I was ready to give them a shot. That was not how I felt after they first showed up!
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07-24-2021, 10:32 AM | #855 |
Standing By
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Final Countdown is an okay Den-O movie, but it reuses a lot of things that were seen before. The Edo Era, the tragically butchered Gaoh suit, Ryoutarou being out of action, multiple Den-Os, these are all things that were done in Ore Tanjou and I think that movie was more meaningful for how it focused on the bond between Ryoutarou and Momotaros and the value of memories.
This movie does touch on some of the important themes from the show, but they're mostly experienced through the perspective of Koutarou, who doesn't understand all the hype about the Den-O of the present day. I actually like Koutarou and Teddy and everything about New Den-O and their counting gimmick. But in a movie that was being advertised as the last Den-O movie, it seems like a weird time to be introducing these new characters instead of focusing on the ones we're already familiar with. Koutarou will get more chance to shine going forward with the Chou Den-O Series though so look forward to that. His name is of course a reference to kid Ryoutarou, who was nicknamed Koutarou in Ore Tanjou as distinction from adult Ryoutarou. Shirou gets the accolade of coming up with the whole "replace living with dead" plan before Kamen Rider War, but honestly I think even that crazy movie made it sound more plausible. Here, it's basically just more classic Time Nonsense, compounded with Owner's ineffective reassurance that everything makes sense at the end. Shirou isn't even that interesting as a movie villain, compared to bad*sses like Gaoh and Negataros. His whole motivation is that his girlfriend died and while that is definitely sad, I don't think it's something that would necessarily push most people to inverting time. Kamen Rider Yuki is also the reason why the awesome Gaoh suit doesn't exist anymore, so I'm a little bitter about that.
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07-24-2021, 11:33 AM | #856 |
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Shirou isn't even that interesting as a movie villain, compared to bad*sses like Gaoh and Negataros. His whole motivation is that his girlfriend died and while that is definitely sad, I don't think it's something that would necessarily push most people to inverting time. Kamen Rider Yuki is also the reason why the awesome Gaoh suit doesn't exist anymore, so I'm a little bitter about that.
I like him for the same reason I like Kai, in that his motivation seems to embody some of the uncertainty of the producers. Shiro's a meta villain to me. He's desperately trying to cling onto someone who's already gone, and he's willing to risk destroying his happy memories to do it. Putting a villain like that in the last Ryotaro story (for a while, at least), when we're maybe 1 to 2 Ryotaro stories too many already, feels more vital than some train warlord or weirdo crime drama. Like, this movie feels real nervous about losing Ryotaro, and it feels real nervous about trying to tell more Den-O stories, and Shiro's the best villain to explore that anxiety.
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07-29-2021, 05:02 AM | #857 |
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FAREWELL KAMEN RIDER DEN-O: FINAL COUNTDOWN
Like, I’m trying to think of a Kamen Rider I instantly disliked more than Kotaro, and I’m coming up empty. I mean, I’ve hated some characters more eventually, but very few have I hated as much on their debut. Having Kotaro show up as the new Den-O and basically go Old Den-O Stuff Sucks for twenty straight minutes of the goddamn Farewell To Ryotaro movie… bold choice! Not, uh, not the one I would’ve made, but it definitely provides an arc for Kotaro’s character. He gets there by the end, maybe. It’s a fairly standard arc, where an overly-confident hero is humbled by a loss and works with the people he formerly shunned in order to achieve victory. The actor tries, anyway. It’s just too difficult to feel invested in a guy who just showed up, told everyone they suck, ate shit, and then got a pity invite to their big celebration. Kotaro starts as an interloper and ends as an outsider, which is largely a function of the plot, but the character has enough unrealized potential that I’ll try not to hold this introductory story against him. It’s… that’s sort of the big problem this movie has, and it’s the same one that occasionally held back the series, in my opinion. There’s incredibly fun character stuff happening, and some very charming actors, but there’s always this top-down plot stuff that keeps it from being the fun hang-out story it clearly wants to be. Kotaro showing up is plot stuff, something outside the group that derails (sorry) the real fun of this movie, which is all of the Imagin hanging out and being ridiculous. Kotaro is the Sakurai nonsense that always threatened to put the brakes on the comedy and drama that could develop out of the characters. There’s plenty to build a movie around from just the characters we’re already invested in. Having Kotaro show up and stop the fun dead so we can try and address his mysteries and traumas (spoiler: they are not at all worth the effort), it starts and ends this movie in a zone that devalues the characters and tone we all love from Den-O; it feels like work. Quote:
That all made for a movie that ended better than it started, but still not one I ever fully got onboard with conceptually. Some of it was the distracting thought of The Story I Wished They’d Told (like, just make Yuuto the new Den-O, problem solved), but a lot of it was just how weirdly inessential and unnecessary this whole story was. It’s Shiro’s thing with Sora, but as a superhero franchise designed to sell toys to Japanese children. Den-O was fun, and it ended, and now its corpse is trotted out to try to reignite the same devotion it once effortlessly generated. Ryotaro seems checked out, Airi and the Airimirers are there when they don’t need to be (I love how they 100% did not have the Milk Dipper set anymore), and whatever fun there is (and there’s fun!) comes with an echo of how Den-O needs to be put away. Sora’s sadness was never that she wanted to live again. Her sadness was that extending her life devalued it, and she’d rather be honest about that. It’s hard to say goodbye to something you love, but it’s maybe harder to be refused the chance to say goodbye at all.
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-Not that I want to keep shitting on a movie that really doesn’t deserve this level of criticism, but I really like how this movie comes across as almost an indictment of drawing strength from memories, the core thesis of the TV series. Sora’s request, at the end, is to be forgotten, since being remembered forever by Shiro is a trap. It’s this movie sort of saying that it’s cool to love Den-O as a TV show, but please stop loving Den-O so much that they aren’t allowed to stop making it. I love this movie’s ambivalence about its own existence!
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THE BAGGAGE CAR
-I’m glad to be back watching Den-O, finding a way to make a crowd-pleasing bit of fan-service sound like a hollowed-out and dispiriting endeavor! I did enjoy the middle section of this movie, for what it’s worth. Sieg is an all-star in this movie (there’s a bit where he does his catchphrase, then everyone else does their catchphrase, and then the camera lands back on him to say I Already Did Mine, and it’s the smartest joke in maybe all of the movie), Hana’s great, all of the stuff where the Imagin are roommates was so agreeable that I don’t even care if it’s not pushing the narrative forward. Let me hang out with these dopes forever, even if it’s making them miserable. I will be Shiro in that scenario, happily.
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07-30-2021, 11:21 AM | #858 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
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I've seen significantly worse behaviors in the franchise than what Kotaro displayed here to get riled up actually, though I'd think Kotaro's misery isn't highlighted enough from his past other than his name being made fun of, if it's the source of his grudge against Ryotaro, and his resolution seems to be too rushed, just suddenly changing after interacting with Ryotaro, that he's suddenly ok with him being named Kotaro.
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Yeah, I mean, say what you will about Climax Deka, but at least that movie let Hana kick ass at the end. Would've been a nice moment in this one if they did some wirework with her or something.
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07-30-2021, 05:11 PM | #859 |
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Oh, and speaking of Climax Deka! For like, archival purposes, I guess, I'd just like to take a second to link to Die's post about that movie, which was over in the thread for Kiva, because that full title has a way of fooling people, apparently! (The posts leading up to that one are also highly recommended reading here.)
Not sure how much actual utility this post will have to anyone reading these threads, but I'd hate for us all to forget about what is arguably the most forgettable Den-O film out there!
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07-30-2021, 05:18 PM | #860 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
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Oh, and speaking of Climax Deka! For like, archival purposes, I guess, I'd just like to take a second to link to Die's post about that movie, which was over in the thread for Kiva, because that full title has a way of fooling people, apparently! (The posts leading up to that one are also highly recommended reading here.)
Not sure how much actual utility this post will have to anyone reading these threads, but I'd hate for us all to forget about what is arguably the most forgettable Den-O film out there! Thanks for posting those links! I'd not only forgotten to crosspost it here (I think I was going to, but then... didn't?), I'd largely forgotten what the hell I wrote. Rereading it a couple months later was a trip. I don't remember feeling any particular way about that write-up, but it's not too bad. The less I remember the process, the more I enjoy the recollections. Thanks for the fun reminder of a baffling film!
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