[KRWolfblade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaskedRiderAsakura

The thing that doesn't make sense to me is how Ryuki keeps appearing in crossovers even though Ryuki technically doesn't exist anymore, at least not with Shinji as him.


I get that Rider hasn't paid much attention to continuity from the Ryuki-Kabuto era but it still bugs me >_>

That's the main problem I had with Ryuki's ending, it was later retconned/contradicted in every Kamen Rider crossover. I hope they somehow explain it but given the fact they still haven't given an official reason as to why both Black and Black RX can be seen fighting alongside each other, I highly doubt it.

[MaskedRiderAsakura]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KRWolfblade

That's the main problem I had with Ryuki's ending, it was later retconned/contradicted in every Kamen Rider crossover. I hope they somehow explain it but given the fact they still haven't given an official reason as to why both Black and Black RX can be seen fighting alongside each other, I highly doubt it.

In my head canon, the original Kotaro is Black RX and Decade Kotaro is Black.

[XW1n5t0nX]

I thought it was explained in Decade that each Black was from a different universe or point in time (like in the RX movie)?

[Tokumonkey]

I'm curious as to whether an attempt to respect Ryuki's ending was one of the factors motivating Decade taking place in Rider world radically different from the ones that aired. Also, save where the original actors are present, this does serve as feasible explanation for the presence of some Riders whose presence shouldn't be possible. (I assume the main factor was casting.)

Ren apparently survives the Rider war, doesn't he? A part of me wondered if the main Rider hadn't originally been intended as Kamen Rider Knight before someone realized the potential for difficulty selling the show in other markets due to the insane Batman resemblance.

I didn't find Asakura's end satisfying at all, given that he appeared to pretty definitively die a few episodes earlier. It makes me wonder at what kind of creative conflicts were behind the show.

I'm also curious as to why the show didn't elaborate on Alternative's different Driver and apparently-synthetic contract monster.

I've yet to watch 13 Riders or the movie. I'm assuming they can be watched in either order, given that they're alternate series endings?

[KRWolfblade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by XW1n5t0nX

I thought it was explained in Decade that each Black was from a different universe or point in time (like in the RX movie)?

Decade showed that there are two different Alternate Reality worlds where in one, Kotaro Minami is Kamen Rider Black and in another he is Kamen Rider Black RX. The Black RX in Decade is separate from the original Black RX despite being portrayed by the same actor.

But in the main universe which the crossover films take place, they give no explanation as to why both Black and Black RX can be seen fighting together because they are the same person. The only logical explanation is either time travel or Decade Black.

[KRWolfblade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaskedRiderAsakura

In my head canon, the original Kotaro is Black RX and Decade Kotaro is Black.

That's pretty much what every fan considers when it comes to Black and Black RX appearing together. It's the only logical explanation, that or time travel.

[KRWolfblade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tokumonkey

I've yet to watch 13 Riders or the movie. I'm assuming they can be watched in either order, given that they're alternate series endings?

Yeah, it doesn't matter which order you watch them in. Ryuki Episode Final is an alternate ending and 13 Riders is an alternate origin for Shinji becoming Ryuki and an alternate ending as well.

[MaskedRiderAsakura]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tokumonkey

Also, save where the original actors are present, this does serve as feasible explanation for the presence of some Riders whose presence shouldn't be possible. (I assume the main factor was casting.)

It works sometimes, but not all of the time. Decade's pretty damn confusing so forgive me if I fudge some stuff up, but I think the Ryuki from All Riders vs Dai-Shocker is the original Shinji Kido, not Shinji Tatsumi.

Quote:

Ren apparently survives the Rider war, doesn't he? A part of me wondered if the main Rider hadn't originally been intended as Kamen Rider Knight before someone realized the potential for difficulty selling the show in other markets due to the insane Batman resemblance.

The series leaves it kinda ambiguous as to whether Ren died or not. We don't know if he succumbed to his injuries or if he was simply taking a well-deserved rest after winning the Rider War.

And I don't think Kamen Rider Knight was intended to be the main Rider. When Ryuki came out, it deconstructed a lot of Rider tropes and played with the audience's expectations. Not only did we see the first instance of an evil Rider in the show, but, to this day, it's the only Rider series I can think of where most of the Riders are undoubtedly evil. Most of the Riders in the series are selfish, hedonistic, excessively violent or just flat-out batshit insane. Then you've got a Rider unsure of what the 'right' thing to do is, which contrasts with the Riders of old simply knowing how to do the right thing. And on top of that, we've got the whole concept of fighting a war that ultimately can't be won. Even if Ren got his wish, it cost him his best friend.

I'd imagine that they wanted to take Rider in a new direction with the series, and gave us a main character who didn't win for once. On top of that, I don't think Shinji surviving the Rider War works nearly as well as Ren winning the Rider War. Ren was always the one dead-set on surviving, Shinji was the one who would gladly give his life to save everyone else, which is what he ended up doing.

[Powerman293]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaskedRiderAsakura

The series leaves it kinda ambiguous as to whether Ren died or not. We don't know if he succumbed to his injuries or if he was simply taking a well-deserved rest after winning the Rider War.

And I don't think Kamen Rider Knight was intended to be the main Rider. When Ryuki came out, it deconstructed a lot of Rider tropes and played with the audience's expectations. Not only did we see the first instance of an evil Rider in the show, but, to this day, it's the only Rider series I can think of where most of the Riders are undoubtedly evil. Most of the Riders in the series are selfish, hedonistic, excessively violent or just flat-out batshit insane. Then you've got a Rider unsure of what the 'right' thing to do is, which contrasts with the Riders of old simply knowing how to do the right thing. And on top of that, we've got the whole concept of fighting a war that ultimately can't be won. Even if Ren got his wish, it cost him his best friend.

I'd imagine that they wanted to take Rider in a new direction with the series, and gave us a main character who didn't win for once. On top of that, I don't think Shinji surviving the Rider War works nearly as well as Ren winning the Rider War. Ren was always the one dead-set on surviving, Shinji was the one who would gladly give his life to save everyone else, which is what he ended up doing.

I can't reference this to a particular episode, but I swore Shiro said he started the Rider War so he could find the strongest life to give to Yui. Which I thought meant the winner died as well, essentially meaning Ren is dead.

[MaskedRiderAsakura]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Powerman293

I can't reference this to a particular episode, but I swore Shiro said he started the Rider War so he could find the strongest life to give to Yui. Which I thought meant the winner died as well, essentially meaning Ren is dead.

IIRC, by the end Shiro pretty much gave up on the whole Rider War. Odin was designed to be so OP so that he could beat the remaining Rider and claim their life. However, Shiro ended up forfeiting, Odin was eliminated, and Ren was left.


I could be wrong though, it's been a while since I watched Ryuki. Also, TV-Nihon, so I'm sure the subs made things really confusing.