[Fish Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

There is absolutely no reason why Takeru should be trying to save Adel.

No reason except how a big underpinning of the show ever since Necrom (and arguably since Specter) showed up has been how people aren't inherently evil, just varying degrees of misguided.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

He hasn't shown a single scrap of remorse for anything he's done and there's no reason to believe that he can still be talked down at this point.

He definitely hasn't shown remorse but the show's made it very clear he has to force himself really hard to be as much of an a**hole as he is. That's why he doesn't even let Alia finish her usual spiel this episode. He's worried he might start to believe it. It's also why they explicitly have him hesitate when he says "this is for the best". He's plagued by doubt and in massive denial about that fact.

Think of Adel like Micchi from Gaim. Of course, I remember people refusing to believe he'd ever get redemption of any sort either, so...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

I continue to have no idea what Edith's motivations are and I honestly don't even care at this point.

I think they've made it plenty clear he wants to save world(s), the same as everybody else. What's there to be confused about?

[Switchblade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

He definitely hasn't shown remorse but the show's made it very clear he has to force himself really hard to be as much of an a**hole as he is. That's why he doesn't even let Alia finish her usual spiel this episode. He's worried he might start to believe it. It's also why they explicitly have him hesitate when he says "this is for the best". He's plagued by doubt and in massive denial about that fact.

Think of Adel like Micchi from Gaim. Of course, I remember people refusing to believe he'd ever get redemption of any sort either, so...

Yeah, but Micchi was a properly developed character from a well-written show
who had internal motivations that we understood as the audience. Adel just stands there with his Photoshop duplicates making vaguely threatening speeches to his sister. We have minimal understanding of why Adel is such a dickhole, and no "my mommy died and I feel bad" is not sufficient character background. He has done nothing to engender any sympathy from the audience and does not deserve a redemption ending. He's not Micchi or Heart; he's the principal from Fourze, who the show tried desperately to create pathos for at the last minute when he'd done nothing to merit any.

[Fish Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

Yeah, but Micchi was a properly developed character from a well-written show

Well he was certainly a properly developed character. I still don't know about that second part.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

We have minimal understanding of why Adel is such a dickhole, and no "my mommy died and I feel bad" is not sufficient character background.

It isn't his background you need to understand! Everything you need to know happened during the show. He was dedicated to following his father's vision of a perfect world, and because he hugely misunderstood what that meant, he felt betrayed by him and ended up deciding the only way to achieve that vision was to kill him and do it himself, the "right" way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

He has done nothing to engender any sympathy from the audience and does not deserve a redemption ending.

I'm the audience too, aren't I? I can understand why you'd feel that way, and if what Ghost is doing fundamentally doesn't click with you like that, then that's fine, but I can't stress enough that just because you don't like something doesn't mean it's bad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

He's not Micchi or Heart; he's the principal from Fourze, who the show tried desperately to create pathos for at the last minute when he'd done nothing to merit any.

I'd stick up for Fourze's ending too, since it also makes perfect sense to the themes of the show, but I think Adel's portrayal is leagues above Gamou's. I know you don't see it, but I assure you Ghost has done a way better job with its main villain than that show.

[ZeoRangerV]

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Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

...but I can't stress enough that just because you don't like something doesn't mean it's bad.

Then surely just because you like something that doesn't mean it's good as well?

[Fish Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeoRangerV

Then surely just because you like something that doesn't mean it's good as well?

I'm sticking up for a part of a show I believe to be good, and I also happen to like that show. That's all there is to it. Switchblade is just doing the opposite, too, it's not like I'm rejecting his arguments out of hand. I'm not completely delusional. I know Ghost has tons of problems and I wouldn't be nearly as defensive of, for example, Onari or Makoto.

But ever since I rewatched Gaim I can't help but feel it and Ghost are extremely similar shows, despite outward appearances. They're both unique shows with a lot of vision plagued by the fact that they're both complete f***ing messes, writing-wise. A lot of people give Gaim a pass on that because they like it, and I give Ghost a pass on that because I like it.

EDIT: I'd also like to stress I only used that phrase because I think the subject of whether or not someone deserves forgiveness for something is inherently, massively subjective. I wouldn't dare use phrasing like that for arguing more concrete things, like plot holes or the like.

[Enchilada645]

I felt a lot of Kamen Rider Jun in Edith's scenes when he transformed into Dark Ghost. But the difference here is that Edith actually did something with his suit compared to Jun who just posed for a bit. I mean sure he only helped to open the gate but he pretty much opened up the way for the final battle which is good enough for me.

As to how he got the Dark Ghost Eyecon, I mean he did give Argos the Ghost Driver and Dark Ghost Eyecon's, not to mention he's created Eyecon's before, I wouldn't be surprised if he had a bunch of spares lying around.

[Fish Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enchilada645

I felt a lot of Kamen Rider Jun in Edith's scenes when he transformed into Dark Ghost. But the difference here is that Edith actually did something with his suit compared to Jun who just posed for a bit.

Yeah, I instantly thought of that too. I remember seeing that suit in magazine scans and being super disappointed it got used in literally one scene, and just as a joke. I really adore the no-budget Mach look it has going. Seeing it again was probably the best part of Movie War Genesis lol.

I think this scene came off way better. Rather than just a silly gag it's Edith's big moment to shine before the end of the show. And also it's a silly gag, so it's like the best of both worlds, or something.

[Enchilada645]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

I think this scene came off way better. Rather than just a silly gag it's Edith's big moment to shine before the end of the show. And also it's a silly gag, so it's like the best of both worlds, or something.

Yeah I feel the same, not to mention I felt like Yurusen was the voice of the audience in terms of how Edith has been during his run, and I liked how he just said, "Screw you I am useful!"

[Fish Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enchilada645

Yeah I feel the same, not to mention I felt like Yurusen was the voice of the audience in terms of how Edith has been during his run, and I liked how he just said, "Screw you I am useful!"

Exactly. I loved to joke during the first arc of the show how he was the crappiest mentor ever, because of how flaky he was and how he deliberately keeps Takeru in the dark about everything, so it was a nice payoff to see him actually do some real work for once, and "nice payoff" is always something you should be saying about the endgame of any show.

[AgileSiamang7]

To this day I'm still wondering what about Takeru dying the first time made his condition so special, or how the hell Edith was able to "intercept his soul" or whatever when he died and give him a belt as well. Guess I have to wait and see what he did with Argos, as apparently he died before too.