[Sh Ranger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

Jeebh had already antagonized Shoma since he was a child, and the reason Lango put pressure on him and Shita was that Jeebh and Shita had focused on sadistically toying with Shoma early on, rather than completing the missions properly. Pitiful elements aside, the twins are no different from the three older siblings; no reason why they shouldn't be someone who also mass kidnapped and murdered humans for spices as well like those three, and being racist to humans (which is why they antagonized Shoma, just like the three older siblings), which would mean Shoma's enemy.

Regarding Stomach's prejudice against humans though, I wonder if it's really only due to physical weakness like Lango claimed, or they're just bitter (with capital B in Jeep's case) that Bouche loved his human family more than he loved the rest of them. Either way, this perspective is not universal among them, as Nyelve showed genuine respect for Suga, perhaps one of his actual good traits. He doesn't begrudge Shouma either, likely only going along with outcasting him so not to end up targeted like Bouche.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

For referring to Takeru, does that also mean being less forgiving compared to, for example, other main Riders like Touma? Who doesn't seem to hold any ill feelings towards Isaac (a pure evil), to give him a chance to join them again after his final defeat. Otherwise, so pay evil unto evil would be something right to do here, about Hanto's right to decide Kenji's fate? It'd be different for villains who wronged others (like Shinji against Asakura) and villains who personally wronged someone?

Based on what's shown, yeah, it seems like Touma is more willing to forgive terrible people than Takeru would be, even though Isaac was responsible for taking Luna away from him. Touma is a successful writer, so he can easily imagine various scenarios for what drives a villain like Isaac, then attempt, unsuccessfully in this case, to write an ending where they can become buds. Takeru instead focuses on information he can clearly perceive, as he said in the first episode, "I believe in myself", something that Touma actually has to learn how to do since losing Luna shook him so much.

Asakura's murder victims were mostly fellow Riders, so even if Shinji wasn't opposed to killing, the right of revenge would be Miho's, whose sister was an innocent civilian.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

This'd be rather kinda like saying that in Tekken, Jin didn't murder Miguel's sister, it was a Zaibatsu member that bombed the church. Otherwise, though not all cases (like Kenji here) people like to think that if a villain didn't kill anyone, then they did nothing wrong, continuing how they think if one did irreversible damage (like killing), then they're irredeemable, while downplaying the crimes which damage can be undone. This episode also points out, via Hanto, that innocent people had died because of Kenji.

Surely Jin is equivalent to Lango here, as fellow former presidents who had ordered their subordinates to do those despicable things. Nevertheless, Kenji, like those Tekken Force bombers, is still an accomplice and therefore holds culpability for Sae's death, just not as the mastermind. Now that Lakia's euphoric toxins have been weaponized to successfully abduct and kill people, there's not much difference between them other than their motivations before turning good. Somebody out there will want revenge on Lakia as well, like how Lakia wanted revenge on Dente before realizing they were basically the same.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

Even if he's not a credible threat to Shoma, he's still a credible threat to the normal humans, which he has been attacking before to spite Shoma. Should chase him down not to defend himself, but to defend humans.

Still less credible than he was as a procurement supervisor actively targeting happy humans for spice. Since becoming vice president, he no longer chafes under a strict authority, which means he has become lackadaisical without that incentive to be productive and fight for his job. So he indulges in his desire to kill Shouma, but doesn't have a plan and doesn't have a reason to care about anything else.

[Mesnick]

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Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Either way, this perspective is not universal among them, as Nyelve showed genuine respect for Suga, perhaps one of his actual good traits.

Nyelve is very interesting in this regard, because he respected Suga and, at the same time, is capable of sacrificing Granute, even his own family. So there is no bias towards people. It seems to me that if the other Bush children were shocked and outraged by his human family, then Nyelve took it as a lesson. His difference from Lakia and Dente is insensitivity (or carefully concealed feelings). He operates out of a dry logic that says it's better to help the Stomatch Inc. executives than to argue with them. Again, unless he's planning some kind of surprise for the characters and the audience.

[Tokumonkey]

I appreciated that Jeebh was given a unique snack theme for his Rider form, even if it's another Bitter Gavv rework. I'm very curious as to where they're taking Jeebh's story.

So far, it feels like Jeebh's story, following Shita's death, has simply been "descent into revenge-madness," and he flat-out disappeared for how many episodes before that? If that's all there is to it, I'd have expected him to die in this episode, but we're explicitly shown that he survives Over-Gavv's attack, suggesting Shouma spared him on purpose.

Have we ever really dug into Shouma's own feelings about having killed his little sister? I gathered he didn't especially want to kill her to begin with, but the twins were trying to murder him at the time, and he wasn't yet powerful enough for mercy to be an option. Shouma has usually been portrayed as kind to a near-fault, and the closest thing he has to a catchphrase is the bit where he offers mercy to Stomach operatives if they'll agree to give up Dark Candy.

OH! I just worked out what's bugging me about Jeebh's story: Lango is responsible for putting the twins in harm's way, and he'd be the obvious target of Jeebh's revenge if that revenge could be directed at a more appropriate target. Given that Lango died a couple of episodes ago, where can Jeebh's rage be directed if not at his shitty older brother?

All I can think of is Stomach's Dark Candy business. It's the proximate cause of all the misery in this episode. Jeebh and Shouma have a common enemy (as do all the show's still-living Riders), which could be the basis for an at-least-partial redemption arc, or at least a reconciliation. Shouma's family may be awful, but it's also all the family he has. The two of them working together would require Jeebh to be able to perceive that common enemy, though, and IIRC, he's never been portrayed as mature enough.

We don't have many more episodes for this stuff to play out. I just can't quite see the shape of where Jeebh's story is headed, beyond that the show isn't done with him, and seems to be keeping its options open regarding the actress who plays Shita.

We may have seen Kenji's death at the end of the episode coming from miles away (the scene with Glotta was NOT subtle), but it still feels wrong. Violently removing the person whose existence poses a complex ethical question is a very toku thing to do, but this was a story about navigating ethical gray areas and coming to peace with our decisions. Hanto's decision felt good. Kenji being killed just kinda sucked.

[Mesnick]

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Originally Posted by Tokumonkey

Kenji being killed just kinda sucked.

The previous episode's thread expressed concerns that Kenji would go unpunished for his crimes. His elimination by Glotta means that the past will catch up with you anyway. He showed courage by refusing to take up hit-pressing again and that was his true redemption. I have much more complaints about the other death, the earlier one, which could have played as an additional facet of Hanto's reasoning if he had been allowed to learn Suga's true motive. This memory even seems to suggest itself, because the two people who took Hanto`s loved ones from him have such similar-sounding names, Kenji and Kenzo.