[Sunred]

Rebirth #1 was awesome.
Summer this year for my reading life seems like it will be good.

[Thessair]

I don't often rant about entertainment, but...

What the ever loving fuck, Arrow? Guggenheim should be tarred and feathered. The Tumblr/Twitter Olicity crowd has completely taken over. I guess kissing the showrunner's butt on Twitter and Tumblr gets you the stories you want and to heck with everyone else. I don't see much reason to tune back in next season.

[Dr Kain]

Wow, what the hell was that? Season 3 might have gotten pretty dumb in its last act, but at least the finale was satisfying. This... this was just horse shit. I'm not even sure where to start. You have a lame opening battle that served no purpose whatsoever. Then you have everyone riotting and they just all stop to listen to Ollie give a speech because... well just because. Next up you have a fight in the base and Curtis just seemed to disappear from the slab he was on for the entire fight. Then we have a fight between Ollie and Darkh where his powers just stop conveniently working for reasons. Oh yeah, and then you have a whole crowd of people that just start fighting on the street with the Ghosts, who have guns but don't use them. God that was dumb. Ollie is just instantly and conveniently given the title of Mayor. Oh, and what the hell was the entire point of the flashbacks this season? They served no purpose and I don't see how there is any correlation between what happend in them from what occured during the present day. NOTHING!!! The only thing I did like was the last scene of Ollie and Felicity standing in front of the broken suits as the camera pans out.

Man, I have no idea what happened this season as it started out strong and had some of the best action scenes of the entire series. Then it was like the writers stopped caring or they took their entire team to write Legends of Tomorrow, and left the A list writers on the bus by mistake. Next season really needs to step up their game. Hopefully, the show will leave Diggle and gang out of the picture outside of an occassional appearance to let Ollie be the Green Arrow and have all of the focus.

[ZeoRangerV]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Kain

Then you have everyone riotting and they just all stop to listen to Ollie give a speech because... well just because.

Because he ran for mayor and would have won had he not pulled out? Because they established he was incredibly good at making rousing speeches that people actually listen to?

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Then we have a fight between Ollie and Darkh where his powers just stop conveniently working for reasons.

Yep, reasons they established episodes ago and were always going to be the way they managed to nullify his powers.

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Ollie is just instantly and conveniently given the title of Mayor.

So conviniently that you somehow managed to miss every seed they planted throughout the season to make it a logical outcome.

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Oh, and what the hell was the entire point of the flashbacks this season? They served no purpose and I don't see how there is any correlation between what happend in them from what occured during the present day. NOTHING!!!

Um, the fact that they showed Ollie had fought magic before? The fact it was the SAME IDOL that Dahrk was using? To show that the only way to beat that magic was to kill, something Ollie had now sworn against?

Not going to deny the flashbacks have gotten increasingly phoned in but they had just as much relevance as last season's did.

Season 4 was a bit all over the place, but you clearly don't pay all that much attention when you're watching this.

[Dr Kain]

No they didn't. The flashbacks last season actually had a purpose to the story fo Seaosn 3 because of Masao and Katana. These flashbacks held no connection to the main plot. Not to mention they were choppy and pointless at times.

How was Ollie just suddenly able to null his powers? He even said he couldn't do it anymore. And the entire city stops rioting just because he starts talking? No, that is not how it would work in the real world, and since this show is trying to be realistic, I'm going to call it out for that. Then hey look, Star City is in danger, must be the season finale. Oh yeah, and now Merlyn is a good guy again. WTF?!

This episode was nothing more than one giant plot convenience after another. Did the writers just give up?

[ZeoRangerV]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Kain

No they didn't. The flashbacks last season actually had a purpose to the story fo Seaosn 3 because of Masao and Katana. These flashbacks held no connection to the main plot. Not to mention they were choppy and pointless at times.

Except they did, tenuous as they may be. I've pointed them out to you. They were more thematic but they were still there.

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How was Ollie just suddenly able to null his powers? He even said he couldn't do it anymore.

Because he had the hope of an entire city behind him. He said in the episode he could do it before because Felicity had hope in him, but couldn't do it anymore because he'd lost hope in himself. Then Curtis' speech snapped him out of it.

It was basically that bit from the first Spider-Man movie with added magic BS. Yes it was silly, but no more silly than Dahrk's magic being powered by the souls of the dead. It was explained, you're just choosing to ignore it.

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And the entire city stops rioting just because he starts talking? No, that is not how it would work in the real world, and since this show is trying to be realistic, I'm going to call it out for that.

It was about as realistic as the non-existent fallout from Felicity nuking an entire city. Plus it now has metahumans and magic, it isn't trying that hard to be realistic anymore.

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Oh yeah, and now Merlyn is a good guy again. WTF?!

No arguments from me that that's getting old and stupid.

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This episode was nothing more than one giant plot convenience after another. Did the writers just give up?

Yes it was. But it wasn't pulling half of them out of thin air like you're claiming.

[Dr Kain]

It was, but whatever. I did miss that Ollie was able to stop his powers from being used thanks to the citizens. Although, he still should not have been able to just kill him that easily.

Anyway, whatever, I just read Rebirth and it was freaking awesome!!! I am finally excited for the DC universe again. Oh man that was great. I can't wait to see where this goes.

[KRX]

DC Universe: Rebirth pissed me off and I'm still upset.

If the story existed in a vacuum, it'd be a great story. But then it wouldn't be DC Universe: Rebirth.

Really, all of my problems are attributed to one page that, if it were to be removed, would only have the effect of making the entire comic better.

In fact, not even the whole page. Just the dialogue boxes that establish that the New 52 version of Wally West is actually a new version of pre-Flashpoint Wally West's cousin Wally West. If those were altered so that New 52 Wally was THE Wally West of Prime Earth and pre-Flashpoint Wally West was just a remnant of the pre-Flashpoint DC Universe who somehow managed to exist in his horrible fate of being forgotten, then I'd be much happier with the story.

But that didn't happen, so I'm not.

And it's really frustrating, because I really liked the rest of the story. But that one page just ruins the whole thing for me.

[Phantom Stranger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KRX

DC Universe: Rebirth pissed me off and I'm still upset.

If the story existed in a vacuum, it'd be a great story. But then it wouldn't be DC Universe: Rebirth.

Really, all of my problems are attributed to one page that, if it were to be removed, would only have the effect of making the entire comic better.

In fact, not even the whole page. Just the dialogue boxes that establish that the New 52 version of Wally West is actually a new version of pre-Flashpoint Wally West's cousin Wally West. If those were altered so that New 52 Wally was THE Wally West of Prime Earth and pre-Flashpoint Wally West was just a remnant of the pre-Flashpoint DC Universe who somehow managed to exist in his horrible fate of being forgotten, then I'd be much happier with the story.

But that didn't happen, so I'm not.

And it's really frustrating, because I really liked the rest of the story. But that one page just ruins the whole thing for me.

Eh, I can kinda get behind that.

I'm more bothered by the Blue Scarab being retconed...again. They really need to just leave that thing alone.

Also not really on board with the Watchmen thing. I get the idea behind it. I get the symbolism of an incredibly cynical book full of horrible superheroes contrasting and conflicting with the DC universe. But DC has had this long unhealthy obsession with that series, along with the DKR, and this is just a way to hammer it in more. I like Watchmen, but like DKR it's a product very much of it's time, in some ways hasn't aged well and I feel should be self contained. Leave well enough alone. Honestly, DC has done nothing to regain my faith in them as a company. Certainly not one I feel respects its properties(not to mention the employee hell I won't get into). However, I also don't expect one book to do that. That's going to take time, and they're fully capable of doing it. But these "twists" do not fill me with optimism.
They took a step in the right direction, but are tripping along the way.

[KRX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom Stranger

Eh, I can kinda get behind that.

I'm more bothered by the Blue Scarab being retconed...again. They really need to just leave that thing alone.

Also not really on board with the Watchmen thing. I get the idea behind it. I get the symbolism of an incredibly cynical book full of horrible superheroes contrasting and conflicting with the DC universe. But DC has had this long unhealthy obsession with that series, along with the DKR, and this is just a way to hammer it in more. I like Watchmen, but like DKR it's a product very much of it's time, in some ways hasn't aged well and I feel should be self contained. Leave well enough alone. Honestly, DC has done nothing to regain my faith in them as a company. Certainly not one I feel respects its properties(not to mention the employee hell I won't get into). However, I also don't expect one book to do that. That's going to take time, and they're fully capable of doing it. But these "twists" do not fill me with optimism.
They took a step in the right direction, but are tripping along the way.

From a narrative perspective, I liked the Watchmen twist. I see your point about its inclusion, though.

What bothered me about the Scarab thing was that Khalid Nassour has been Doctor Fate since June of last year, and the Doctor Fate that showed up in that story probably wasn't Khalid Nassour. I like Khalid. I like him a lot. I'm definitely biased because he's a character from an Islamic background, but I still like Khalid. And they're not using Khalid.