[Kamen Rider Die]

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Originally Posted by DreadBringer

OK sorry but, just asking, nothing to say regarding last reply?

Sorry, it came in just as I was posting the new episode. I did read it, though! I appreciate the insights!

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Originally Posted by DreadBringer

I think I get some new things from Drake a.k.a Daisuke, that more of his mean side is revealed here (well, I only catch mean side of him here, outside of women). That his apathy to others except women is more highlighted here where he outright refused to join ZECT and that nothing will convince him otherwise. And that what I mentioned before of the toxic masculinity of antagonizing other men for the sake of women, which is Tendou again, regarding Hiyori this time (to be fair, Tendou is the one being possessive of Hiyori and forbids anyone unworthy talking with her, but Daisuke also feels that only best ladies man can ask woman out and forbids anyone else too). I feel that Daisuke is a hedonist who only wants to live his life exactly the way he wants, and the hedonist part also comes from how women is one of the main objective goals of men and he revolves around that (the other being wealth and throne) which grants him white-knight traits, and by that he only wants to satisfy himself with little regard to others; like Sh Ranger said, he has completely selective care and that makes him an anti-hero.

So, for Tendou being possessive of Hiyori.. I think it's just that he really hates Daisuke? He's maybe being protective of Hiyori here, waving off a creep who's hitting on her.

For Daisuke being a hedonist... he's, in a lot of ways, no different than any Rider: he's got a craft that he's dedicated to, a credo he believes in, and he's willing to fight to defend those things he cherishes. It's just that his approach to those three things is pretty unique, so it's harder to see how stock his character-type is right now.

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Originally Posted by Switchblade

So Drake. Drake's probably my least favorite Rider on the series, at least in terms of design if not as a character. I really like the asymmetrical nature of the suit, but the cold color palette makes it look really dull in comparison to the suits we've seen so far and the ones that are still upcoming. We're starting to get into the weird Masked Forms, too, with the superfluous gas mask and hose. We'll get weirder, but I'm not really a fan.

I do like the way the wings are the main part of ShootHopper's torso, how it's like we're seeing the profile of a dragonfly. Very cool way to get that insect motif in without it feeling too derivative of TheBee.

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Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

Also, I'm trying my best to answer all of Die's questions, but all this one reminds me of is how weird it is the guy who was causally dodging knives in the premiere now can't win a simple game of chance without trying a dozen times. No wonder Tendou is so upset about it; it's like Inoue thought he was writing Shinji again or something!

My headcanon for Tendou's nearly inexplicable series of lottery losses is that Sally, owner of La Salle, is totally rigging the contest. A new customer comes in? They get the winning tickets, making sure they have fond memories of their meal and are more inclined to return. (Plus, it costs the restaurant 100 yen, which is cheap as far as customer activation goes.) If it's a frequent customer? They get the losing tickets, because you've already got their business and there's no sense giving them a discount when they'd readily pay full price. Tendou getting a winning ticket at the end is just Sally taking pity on him, and maybe trying to prevent Tendou's Death By Tuna With Spiced Vegetables.

[Kurona]

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

I do like the way the wings are the main part of ShootHopper's torso, how it's like we're seeing the profile of a dragonfly. Very cool way to get that insect motif in without it feeling too derivative of TheBee.

Kabuto's designs are the sort you start appreciating more the more you look at them I find -- TheBee is essentially just the top view of a wasp (with the 'chestplate' being the abdomen and the head being, well, the head), and with Drake you can see the Dragonfly's head on one of his shoulders while the opposite arm is the tail. It's very neat!

[Fish Sandwich]

One thing I came across in my (apparently now obligatory) reading of the Japanese Wikipedia page for the show that really fascinated me was that they wanted to come up with a way to differentiate Kabuto from the swarms of other beetle heroes already out there, and that the idea they landed on for that was to have his head be an entire beetle, rather than just the horns like your Kuugas and your Blades. It's fairly subtle on the final design, but looking at it with that concept in mind, it seems pretty clear that, for instance, the black bits on the side are representing legs.

I don't think it's a hard rule, but an entire insect for a face with another one on the body seems to be the basic Kabuto design pattern, and I love that despite emphasizing the "cool" factor so much, this show's Riders still have that same sort of whimsy to the way their motifs are incorporated that makes Rider and Sentai designs in general so endlessly fascinating. It won't be the first (or the last) time this gets said in the thread, but Kabuto really did utterly nail it when it came to aesthetics. Seeing them all in action rewatching the show is reminding me just how much I love basically all of these guys.

[Kamen Rider Die]

KAMEN RIDER KABUTO - EPISODE 13



Late-night Kabuto for me, so let’s see what we’ve got to talk about.

(Holy shit, today was like two days worth of work. Tons of packing and shipping; every in-store holiday purchase required hand-selling and one-on-one work; every goddamn computer process broke down at some point; and ordering from three distributors instead of last year’s one or two just to get in a last-minute restock before Christmas was a colossal pain in the ass. If this episode’s coverage is either way too short or way too mean, today is the culprit!)

I thought this one was… fine. I respect what it was trying to do, but it just never clicked for me?

Like, this episode’s two threads are both about the same things: unintended consequences people thought they could ignore, hidden identities, and a destructive need to avenge an earlier slight. Structurally, I can’t really kick about it. It’s just… I don’t know, maybe talking about it’ll help figure out where this one failed to live up to its potential for me.

The main thread focuses on Yaguruma (fresh off detonating his entire reputation due to his rivalry with Tendou) and Kageyama (who believes in nothing but himself now -slash- is a sneering asshole, in a nice repudiation of Tendou’s worldview), but there’s a little bit with Kagami that I loved for what it was saying and hated for how quickly it moved on from saying it.

Kageyama’s new, shittier attitude (he’s such a condescending prick to Misaki!) is because he believed in two mentors that self-destructed. Yaguruma let his rivalry with Tendou interfere with his ability to harness TheBee Zecter, putting Kagami in place to take over. But then Kagami bailed after just one day, choosing Kabuto’s friendship instead of his role as TheBee. The rest of the episode is really about how much Kageyama wants Yaguruma to suffer for failing him, but I feel like the show missed a much better story by ignoring Kagami’s responsibilities?

I mean, the big theme in this episode is Unintended Consequences People Thought They Could Ignore, and the problem is that the ZECT side of things opts to make that all about Yaguruma and Kageyama. The thing is, doing a ZECT story that doesn’t focus on Kagami is a massive miscalculation. ZECT only ever matters if their stories focus on Tendou or Kagami, and this one really doesn’t. Tendou and Kagami are in the ZECT plot, but it’s just fundamentally not about them. Having half the story be about how two supporting cast members feel about each other… no? It’s too much time to devote to them. Shunting Kagami to the side of a ZECT plot is like throwing away the beef patty of a hamburger to make more room for onions. Yaguruma is interesting because of how Kagami feels about him, or how Tendou feels about him. Same thing for Kageyama. How Kageyama and Yaguruma feel about each other, it’s just too slight to build a story on.

Worse, it misses the key way to include Kagami, namely that Shadow dissolving is all Kagami’s fault. The gap between Yaguruma losing TheBee Zecter and Kagami getting it is, like, four seconds. Shadow’s still up and running when Kagami’s in charge, and then he quits the next day. After that, yeah, Shadow’s boned! It is objectively Kagami’s resignation that dissolves Shadow! I get that Kagami’s betrayal of Kageyama is less of a deep wound than Yaguruma’s, but it would not take a lot to make this episode more about Kagami bearing some responsibility (and therefore guilt) for how he abandoned Shadow? And then I’d care more about the stakes?

(It’s worth mentioning that, with all of the twists and reveals in this episode, I’m honestly not sure what the status of Shadow actually was. ZECT is treating the deaths of Shadow operatives as a consequence of Shadow no longer existing, but then Kageyama says it was a ruse to find out who the mole is that’s… I don’t know, leaking former-Shadow identities to the Worms? But they’d only be former Shadow members if Shadow was dissolved? Which it maybe wasn’t? I honest to god have no idea what the strategy is by Kageyama, so I guess I’m also less competent than he’d hoped.)

And the stakes… I just don’t give a shit about a bunch of no-name dudes being menaced by an insane number of Worms? It’s, again, all stakes that matter to Yaguruma and (I guess?) Kageyama, which is not something I watch this show for! I watch for Kagami and Tendou, and Kagami was a sideline dude for this whole plot.

Tendou’s integral to the second thread of this story, but I wasn’t really into that one too much yet. It’s about exposing what happened seven years ago with Hiyori and The Boy In The Belt, and in this episode it’s all teases. Tendou’s being subtly evasive (him telling Juka that when he said he went back to save Hiyori, he really meant that he went back to save all of humanity, which includes Hiyori… man, Juka, come on) and Hiyori’s having a disturbingly high amount of PTSD flashbacks, so stuff is about to come to a head. Unfortunately, it takes literally the entire episode to come to a head, leaving more discussion on this topic for next episode’s post. As it is, there really wasn’t much to talk about? It’s all tension, and no release.

This episode… I know it sounds like I hated it, but I honestly just thought it was fine. I appreciated that both threads were about the same things (Hiyori’s rage at Kabuto’s failure is pretty much Kageyama’s barely-concealed rage at Yaguruma’s failure), and there were some small beats that were pretty charming. (A+ for Gon resolving the last two-parter by telling Tendou that Daisuke was acting too naive and that he deserved a beating, sort of low-level shitting on Inoue’s melodrama.) But the stakes of the story just never mattered to me, and the episode excluded the only guy in the main cast who actually cares about ZECT as an organization. Baffling choice, and one that kept this thing from ever becoming that good.

But, maybe that’ll change in the next episode, as Kagami is outed as the mole!!!!!!!even though we know he definitely isn’t

A QUESTION

Watching this episode had me wondering what the hell ZECT’s budget looks like. There’s no shortage of cool gear (they made Kabuto a new BugZapper or whatever, a nice thing to do for a guy they’ve been actively trying to murder) or dudes in armor, and yet… I mean, Kagami’s division of ZECT frequently met in an empty office, like they were squatting. This time we have Tadokoro sitting in a giant room, at a giant desk, with absolutely nothing on it. Even when Goro meets with Misaki or Kagami’s dad, the only thing in the room is a chair! They don’t even have working lights most of the time! So, my question to you is this: Is ZECT frugal, or broke? Are they keeping their employees working part-time pizza delivery gigs because Worm-hunting doesn’t need full-time employees, or are they just too cheap to hire a real workforce and provide benefits? I don’t get how this militarized organization of nebulous authority works!

[Androzani84]

I don’t have much to say on this, so I’ll answer the question.

On one hand, ZECT is making bikes that turn into giant horns. But on the other, they’re able to created specially shaped bullets for all their Rider systems (the ones Kabuto uses here are just one of 4). So I’d say they’re not too well off, but they aren’t strapped for cash.

[DreadBringer]

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

So, for Tendou being possessive of Hiyori.. I think it's just that he really hates Daisuke? He's maybe being protective of Hiyori here, waving off a creep who's hitting on her.

For Daisuke being a hedonist... he's, in a lot of ways, no different than any Rider: he's got a craft that he's dedicated to, a credo he believes in, and he's willing to fight to defend those things he cherishes. It's just that his approach to those three things is pretty unique, so it's harder to see how stock his character-type is right now.

Possessive literally means protective, in an extreme manner. Not only for Hiyori but it applies to Juka later as well. It just that the person spotted by Tendou happens to be someone who deserved it here. I think what you describe there for Daisuke more applies to a human in general instead of a Rider. Of course anyone can transform into a Rider and its interesting to bring out the topic regarding what a Rider could be, but franchise-wide Riders are supposed to be heroes, ray hope of light; not dumbing down or deconstructing those ideals like being alone in their beliefs in the world or treated as naive as the realities of the world don't match up to their ideals and showing that the darker take is better, like how doing only anything he wants is right if someone's strong.

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER KABUTO - EPISODE 13

The main thread focuses on Yaguruma (fresh off detonating his entire reputation due to his rivalry with Tendou) and Kageyama (who believes in nothing but himself now -slash- is a sneering asshole, in a nice repudiation of Tendou’s worldview), but there’s a little bit with Kagami that I loved for what it was saying and hated for how quickly it moved on from saying it.

Kageyama’s new, shittier attitude (he’s such a condescending prick to Misaki!) is because he believed in two mentors that self-destructed. Yaguruma let his rivalry with Tendou interfere with his ability to harness TheBee Zecter, putting Kagami in place to take over. But then Kagami bailed after just one day, choosing Kabuto’s friendship instead of his role as TheBee. The rest of the episode is really about how much Kageyama wants Yaguruma to suffer for failing him, but I feel like the show missed a much better story by ignoring Kagami’s responsibilities?

Yeah, Kageyama's worldview is that, anyone who wears TheBee Zecter is a great person. By that the failures of those 2 people who became that; Yaguruma' betrayal of Perfect Harmony for the first time and Arata's self defect from being Shadow leader had tainted Shun's heart, viewing them as incompatible superior and deemed them inferior than him. Kageyama is now the leader of Shadow, and for currently become arrogant and showing his incompatibility to be TheBee user and the leader of Shadow. He couldn't able to lead his group completely and mostly taking effort which giving benefit only for his own. And the real problem for Shadow isn't them dissolving, but how ZECT wants to hunt them.

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

And the stakes… I just don’t give a shit about a bunch of no-name dudes being menaced by an insane number of Worms? It’s, again, all stakes that matter to Yaguruma and (I guess?) Kageyama, which is not something I watch this show for! I watch for Kagami and Tendou, and Kagami was a sideline dude for this whole plot.

Well, you wished that, but, it won't happen, well for Tendou. Tendou has established his independency, and he wouldn't want to affiliate himself with any organization like ZECT, so he's less likely to be involved in stories like this. And Yaguruma or Kageyama are another major characters anyway. And how Shadow dissolves is not resolved yet for this episode, so can't talk yet other than apparent Kagami fault. And also, with your previous view of responsibility part, now you want characters to have responsibility issues in Kagami?

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Tendou’s integral to the second thread of this story, but I wasn’t really into that one too much yet. It’s about exposing what happened seven years ago with Hiyori and The Boy In The Belt, and in this episode it’s all teases. Tendou’s being subtly evasive (him telling Juka that when he said he went back to save Hiyori, he really meant that he went back to save all of humanity, which includes Hiyori… man, Juka, come on) and Hiyori’s having a disturbingly high amount of PTSD flashbacks, so stuff is about to come to a head. Unfortunately, it takes literally the entire episode to come to a head, leaving more discussion on this topic for next episode’s post. As it is, there really wasn’t much to talk about? It’s all tension, and no release.

Hiyori thought that Kabuto killed her parents, seeing the belts, but the true test for faith to Tendou will happen. And with Tendou complaining about Worms who treated food badly, I hoped that they won't stamp the dropped foods further.

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

A QUESTION

Watching this episode had me wondering what the hell ZECT’s budget looks like. There’s no shortage of cool gear (they made Kabuto a new BugZapper or whatever, a nice thing to do for a guy they’ve been actively trying to murder) or dudes in armor, and yet… I mean, Kagami’s division of ZECT frequently met in an empty office, like they were squatting. This time we have Tadokoro sitting in a giant room, at a giant desk, with absolutely nothing on it. Even when Goro meets with Misaki or Kagami’s dad, the only thing in the room is a chair! They don’t even have working lights most of the time! So, my question to you is this: Is ZECT frugal, or broke? Are they keeping their employees working part-time pizza delivery gigs because Worm-hunting doesn’t need full-time employees, or are they just too cheap to hire a real workforce and provide benefits? I don’t get how this militarized organization of nebulous authority works!

Goro's name already mentioned, Mishima. I can't reveal anything about ZECT here, sorry.

[Switchblade]

This show really does feel harder to talk about when it's between character introductions and interesting guest stars. It's interesting. Kabuto, like all the other Rider shows, still follows the two-episode block format in terms of production and guest cast, but it really feels more like one ongoing story. The bi-weekly elements rarely feel like they override the main character dynamics and development of Tendou, Kagami, and Hiyori's various relationships (and Juka eating, obviously). I'm actually really glad for this, because it's going to give me a lot more ammunition for something I've been looking forward to talking about when we get to Den-O.

So I guess we get Kageyama as TheBee now. I said recently that Drake is my least favorite Rider in terms of design, well Kageyama is my least favorite in terms of character. Not that he's awful, just that he's kind of a forgettable jerk. Not the first jerk Rider, but not one that's memorably douche-y like Kusaka or 75% of the Ryuki Riders. Honestly, I have a lot of trouble even remembering Kageyama's name when he's not on screen.

There's also the debut of the, um... ZECT Rider System Hot Wheels Launcher? I assume it has a name, but damned if I can remember it. This was something that was a result of Hibiki's bad toy sales: Bandai wanted to make sure that new toys got lots of focus on the show so kids would bug their parents to go out and buy them. The ZRSHWL? is one of the more egregious examples of forced toy integration. Where did it come from? Why does Tadokoro have it? What exactly does it do? Doesn't matter! 2000 yen at your local JUSCO!

[Kurona]

It was so funny to me that FRS Kabuto included the ZECT Mizer. I mean, it's of course awesome that it's as complete as possible; really showing up SHF there and it's great to have more options, but it was hilarious to me given just how. Nothing its appearance was. I'm not sure it even shows up again after this?? I definitely don't recall it!

[Kamen Rider Die]

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Originally Posted by DreadBringer

Possessive literally means protective, in an extreme manner. Not only for Hiyori but it applies to Juka later as well. It just that the person spotted by Tendou happens to be someone who deserved it here.

It... I don't think possessive and protective are synonyms? Protective has a connotation of care, of valuing someone or something, and it can be used positively. Possessive is about selfishness, and it's almost always used negatively. You can be protective of someone while still allowing them autonomy and independence, like Tendou has done with Hiyori. (I don't recall Tendou trying to box out any other potential suitors?) Being possessive... that's just not Tendou? That we've seen on this show so far, anyway. It's... it's basically the opposite of how I'd describe Tendou's views of other people?

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Originally Posted by DreadBringer

Well, you wished that, but, it won't happen, well for Tendou. Tendou has established his independency, and he wouldn't want to affiliate himself with any organization like ZECT, so he's less likely to be involved in stories like this. And Yaguruma or Kageyama are another major characters anyway. And how Shadow dissolves is not resolved yet for this episode, so can't talk yet other than apparent Kagami fault. And also, with your previous view of responsibility part, now you want characters to have responsibility issues in Kagami?

I think you can do Tendou/ZECT stories without Tendou joining ZECT, though. I mean, the show's already done a couple! As long as Tendou has the Kabuto Zecter, there's a natural in for him on a ZECT story.

I don't 100% understand your question about responsibility issues (I don't remember what I said about them that you're referring to), but I think the show missed out (so far!) by not exploring Kagami's responsibility for abandoning Shadow. His actions were previously framed as him valuing the bond he had with Tendou over the ugly work of being TheBee, but the result for Shadow is that he left them all to twist in the wind while he cozied up to his new friend. That seems like a thing the show could reckon with for a minute!

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Originally Posted by Switchblade

This show really does feel harder to talk about when it's between character introductions and interesting guest stars. It's interesting.

I actually feel the opposite? It's fun to see new Riders and big-name guest stars (or Truegami), but I'm way more dialed in when the show just makes time for a Tendou/Kagami/Hiyori plot. I love thinking about those characters and watching their incremental evolutions. Stuff like Daisuke and Kageyama, it feels like an unwelcome distraction? I don't mind it if it's either super fun (Daisuke) or looped into the examination of a main character (Yaguruma's debut), but I'd almost always prefer a smaller story that exhibits something new about our core trio.

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Originally Posted by Switchblade

Honestly, I have a lot of trouble even remembering Kageyama's name when he's not on screen.

The thing I dig about him so far isn't the performance (which is pretty generic), but the backstory of his grievances. Dude has believed in people, and those people have not valued his belief! That's going to create something within someone that needs to be addressed!

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Originally Posted by Switchblade

There's also the debut of the, um... ZECT Rider System Hot Wheels Launcher? I assume it has a name, but damned if I can remember it. This was something that was a result of Hibiki's bad toy sales: Bandai wanted to make sure that new toys got lots of focus on the show so kids would bug their parents to go out and buy them. The ZRSHWL? is one of the more egregious examples of forced toy integration. Where did it come from? Why does Tadokoro have it? What exactly does it do? Doesn't matter! 2000 yen at your local JUSCO!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurona

It was so funny to me that FRS Kabuto included the ZECT Mizer. I mean, it's of course awesome that it's as complete as possible; really showing up SHF there and it's great to have more options, but it was hilarious to me given just how. Nothing its appearance was. I'm not sure it even shows up again after this?? I definitely don't recall it!

As someone who came in on Ex-Aid, you are probably never going to hear me dismiss any part of Kamen Rider for being merely toyetic. I love the random new weapon, because it's so random. I don't think Tendou needed some hot new ZECToy to wipe out a few lumbering Worms, but I appreciate him at least trying out the BugZapper. (And then he just goes back to his normal gear, like nothing even happened!)

Also, let me take a moment to sing the praises of the actor playing Tadokoro. He is always one impassioned plea from Kagami or Misaki away from just shouting Look I Know This Is All Bullshit But I've Got A Mortgage So How About You Stop Busting My Balls For Like Five Goddamn Seconds And Just Do Your Jobs. He knows ZECT sucks! He gets that they're horrible people! He is fully aware of how capricious and poorly-reasoned their strategies are! What do you want him to do about it?! He's not Zachariah Zect, the founder of ZECT! He's just some middle-management dude who has an hour-long commute to make twice-daily because he can't afford to live in the city! And his dishwasher needs to be replaced! Leave him alone!

[Switchblade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurona

It was so funny to me that FRS Kabuto included the ZECT Mizer. I mean, it's of course awesome that it's as complete as possible; really showing up SHF there and it's great to have more options, but it was hilarious to me given just how. Nothing its appearance was. I'm not sure it even shows up again after this?? I definitely don't recall it!

I'm a couple episodes ahead and I can confirm that it shows up at least one more time.