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#281 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,530
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Did not know the etymology of her name, so thanks! I'm still going to think of her as a tiny dinosaur, though.
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KAMEN RIDER KABUTO - EPISODE 17
The first part is the big flaw in this episode, even if I’d say it didn’t really harm the story. Daisuke is almost unconscionably dismissive of Gon here, treating her alternately as a liar; a slacker; a pest; and an anchor. In the same way that the show wants there to be no confusion as to whether Kageyama deserves to burn (gleefully assaulting both women and children in one episode), there’s just wall-to-wall Daisuke being awful in this chapter. Worse, it basically comes out of nowhere? I’m sure (I hope) the next episode will sketch in why Daisuke suddenly didn’t give two shits about Gon’s obvious terror, but here it’s just him getting worse and worse until WAIT HE DOES CARE. It is… I do not love a surrogate father slowly abandoning his ward! It is not a fun thing to watch, especially when it’s like Of Course Daisuke Actually Cares About Gon. There isn’t shock or tension, there’s just this steadily mounting disappointment in both Daisuke as a character, and Kabuto as a show. Him fighting Kabuto at the end, it’s like… where was all of this at any other point in the episode. (He is so disinterested when she says a man grabbed her at night in a park! What the hell, Daisuke?!) Quote:
And, speaking of that fight with Kabuto, that’s kind of the other downside of this one, and Kabuto stories kind of in general? I mean, it’s a setup, right? Not from Daisuke, maybe, but Tendou has totally Clocked Up to what’s going on here. He always does, which makes cliffhangers that put him in jeopardy sort of nonstarters for me. There is a trick, or a ruse, or a stratagem, and he’ll do his Skinny Jeans Poirot thing later in the second part, where he lays out what’s really been going on in the story, and… like, that’s this show. I’m not completely mad at it, but there’s a use of the formula that is wearing a little thin, and I really felt it at this episode’s conclusion. I didn’t buy the cliffhanger (the cut to the ZECT camera on ShootHopper’s gun felt way too intentional), so the end of the episode was a bit of a shrug for me. It’s something that’s happened more than once for me on this show, where the tension of a plot evaporates because I never for a second think the dilemma has gotten away from Tendou. That’s a structural flaw that… I mean, I’m only a third of the way through the show and it’s becoming hard to dismiss. That’s not great!
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But, again, neither of those things really sank the episode for me. It’s an inventively-shot story that focuses on Gon’s past, Hiyori’s compassion, and the ways found families carry within them a fear of abandonment that never goes away; while also making time for bathroom antics, quality fights, and an overconfident Kagami who will not stop telling his one story.
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A QUESTION
Kageyama! Boy oh boy, Kageyama. Him giving Gon that little smile, just before he abducts her? Pretty terrible! On a scale of 1 (Let’s See Where This Goes) to 10 (I’ve Already Wiped Him From My Memory, Like Gon’s Mom’s Face), how done are you with Kageyama?
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The most complete non-wiki encyclopedias for Kamen Rider series (currently only found Ryuki and OOO's). |
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#282 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,713
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The connection between Riders and Zecters may also parallel the Worms, with the Zecters seeking out users based on a resonance with a trait or emotion they embody and admire in others. Since they're not exactly talkative, they're just as mysterious as ZECT itself and figuring out their criteria for selecting users is partially trial and error by observing who they bond with and what causes them to abandon a user.
The Bee Zecter abandons Yaguruma and Kagami when they exhibit internal conflict such as hesitation or doubt. So far, Kageyama is pretty consistent in his subordination to ZECT which seems to resonate with The Bee Zecter in a way that his predecessors couldn't live up to. I think the Zecters are deliberately made to be mysterious and abstract in what they want and why they value certain traits over others. The idea of it valuing teamwork and... like, structure, I really like that? It's harder to see the Drake's priorities, since we haven't gotten its backstory (nor Daisuke's), and the partnership between the Drake Zecter and Daisuke seems grudging at best. Anyway, yes, I like thinking about this. Hooray for assigning personalities and preferences to the Zecters! Quote:
I somehow feel that Tendou still can accomplish the missions as usual even without involving himself to ZECT or Kagami. Although, it Tendou truly needed ZECT or Kagami... then it means he has childish arrogance if he frequently boasts about his successes saying that he never needed help from anyone and doesn't rely on anyone to succeed, and urges the others to do so (like when Kagami asked for help) even though what you said is that.
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Good point! I think Kagami ended up bragging about this one more because he was really doubting himself, and he wants to feel like a winner for a bit. The other reason is probably because the last time he got a win against a Worm, he immediately became a Kamen Rider afterwards, and that was probably more worthy of boasting. (The other other reason is because Inoue wrote this one and the one before it.) |
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#283 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
Posts: 4,012
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![]() That silly little gag about Hiyori buying some oranges last episode turned out to be pretty important setup in retrospect. Yeah, obviously it's where her and Gon first meet, but the actual joke of Hiyori being inarticulate, that was the first time Inoue had used Hiyori enough in one of his episodes to demonstrate his understanding of the character, and he showed he's got the basic concept down perfectly. And because he laid that groundwork, I have the context to know that the way she's written for most of this episode was no accident. Quite the opposite, actually – Hiyori's role throughout this one is very considered and smart. I mean, it lays it on pretty thick by the end, with Gon even repeating the same exact traumatic mantra from her flashbacks as Hiyori's, but the whole point is that she sees feels a connection to Gon she simply doesn't with most people, and it lets her open up way more than she ever has. Hiyori relates to this unusual girl who's lost her parents at a young age, and it makes her downright eager to help her out in any way she can. She becomes a lot brighter in those scenes; a little more assertive. This is most communicated through body language, as always, where it's worth noting how frequently Hiyori actually looks directly at Gon. It's not constant, and little touches like her still staring towards the floor while walking along remind you it's still Hiyori at the end of the day, but moments like her leaping out of her chair to go give Daisuke a piece of her mind after one too many dismissive comments from him, only interrupted by Gon herself running off, show how much this all means to Hiyori. My single favorite bit, which I feel sums up the balance perfectly, is when Hiyori feels the need to just stare at her palm for a moment after being asked to hold hands, but also doesn't hesitate to reach out, either. The staring quickly yet effortlessly communicates that Hiyori probably isn't huge on physical contact, and that lets you understand the gravity of how comfortable she clearly is being around Gon. It's all seriously brilliant stuff. It can be hard to delineate exactly who's responsible for what here, of course, so I'll just give credit to everyone, because I know Yui Satonaka does a great job playing Hiyori, I know Ryuuta Tasaki is a very capable director who can come up with those little touches, and I'd like to think Inoue is applying the same level of care to this show that he does to so many others he's written for. Whatever the case, it worked out into a plot thread that I was worried might seem sudden feeling surprisingly natural instead. Of course, as much as I'd like to just talk about Hiyori exclusively, there are other things going on here that I will begrudgingly admit where also interesting and/or fun. Tendou also gets to show a bit of a softer side than usual towards Gon, for one, which I liked. He takes having his cooking insulted shockingly well, and even says Daisuke has to be a fool to not appreciate the value of having her around. I like the idea that Tendou has a soft spot for kids, but there's a bit more to it you can read into, which is that Tendou, who we've established is all about people fulfilling their potential, would naturally feel affectionate towards Gon in particular because she's so precocious. On the flipside of that, I also enjoyed how Gon gets to act more like a kid here, emphasizing that, smart as she is, she still needs people in her life to look out for her. And that of course makes Daisuke look ~pretty~ bad here, but I like what this plot is doing so much it never really bothered me. And speaking of things that bothered me surprisingly little, let me touch on Die's question this time by saying I am legitimately upset with myself for being okay with Kageyama in an episode where he straight up hits Hiyori. It's just... he's SO lame, you know? He's beneath even contempt at this point. Mishima's all like "okay, you messed up last time, so I'll give you a mission more on your skill level: please kidnap a literal small child", and Kageyama takes to skulking around the shadows with his game face on like he thinks he's tracking down f***ing Jason Bourne or something. To kidnap a little girl. And the worst part is, the entire plot only happens because his initial attempt to grab her completely fails! This guy just can't get anything right, and it's so sad it's hilarious! I can't wait for the next arc, where Mishima is probably going to have him stealing actual candy from an actual baby. I definitely still hate Kageyama (seriously, don't knock out Hiyori and expect me to like you), but I can't deny some morbid fascination with just how low he's sinking at the moment.
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#284 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,713
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When Gon lets go of Hiyori's hand, she says that it only makes her feel safe when it's Daisuke's hand. And Hiyori sort of stares at her for a second, and doesn't say anything. She's not hurt or offended or anything, despite Gon telling her she's no substitute for a man who is acting like a colossal asshole to her. Some of it is maybe Hiyori's inability to argue for her own emotional health, but I think some of it is... Gon misses her dad, and views any substitute as insufficient. I think Hiyori gets that? She knows what that feels like. I think that's where it all starts to come together for Hiyori, what Gon's going through with Daisuke. I just really like that beat. To be fair, the beginning of this episode had Kageyama enjoying the ice cream that he knocked out of a small girl's hands, sooooo... Last edited by Kamen Rider Die; 08-28-2023 at 07:53 PM.. |
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#285 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
Posts: 4,012
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#286 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,713
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KAMEN RIDER KABUTO - EPISODE 18
![]() This one... I mean, astonishingly good, but it's one that really lives in the details for me. The whole story is great, the full cast banding together to rescue Gon, but there's all these little pieces that make a sum that's even greater than its parts. --- There's that guitar piece, the motif for Daisuke and Gon. I don't recall the showing using it before? I can't imagine they would, since it really only suits them here. It's bittersweet, with a warmth that feels ephemeral, a melody that reconfirms their bond while subtly leading you into its end. It's beautiful, just on its merits, but it's so perfect for the tone of this episode. Daisuke is fully committed to Gon in this episode, and while I could quibble about the show doing a pretty huge 180 from how shitty he was treating her last episode, I can honestly see why he'd change his mind. The reasons for him being an asshole, taking Gon for granted, all of that disappears because She Is In Danger. It's such a parental move, you know? Your kids can be brats, can get on your nerves, can be a burden. But the second they're in danger, yeah, of course, nothing else matters. And, obviously, you get that heartbreaking scene of Gon apologizing for being kidnapped by Kageyama, how she thinks Daisuke is mad at her, and... god, my eyes! Already with the tears! It's impossible to not be on her side, and that makes Daisuke's declaration that he'll never let go of her hand again... I mean, I don't give a shit about what he did last episode. That is Big Dad Energy, and it led to the best episode yet for Daisuke. The way show layered that guitar motif, first evoking the gentleness of Daisuke and Gon's bond, then as the Kageyama-predicted (oh my god eff that guy so bad) possibility of Gon forgetting Daisuke gets discussed, and then finally as Daisuke has to leave Gon to her new/old life... such a sweet touch. --- You can tell how much Gon's abduction has rattled Tendou, because (for maybe the first time?) we see him eat breakfast with Juka. Usually, he'll have her 18-course breakfast already laid out, ready for her to come to the table. He'll be sitting on a chair, reading the newspaper, taking pride in her enjoyment of his cooking. This time, though, he's right there with her. It's a way to show how much Tendou cares for Gon, that her going missing makes him appreciate Juka more than usual. Gon's absence is like a wound, a chasm, and Tendou innately fears Juka falling in somehow. It's a little thing, but I liked the show doing it. --- ![]() This shot of Hiyori nearly wrecked me. I have no idea who found this shot, but give them all of the awards. The rest of the cast takes a backseat in this episode, and rightfully so. If this is the last time we get to spend with Daisuke and Gon together, let them have all of the screentime. Little bits of the rest of the cast is all that's required. Hiyori, though. Man. When she finds out that Gon's been kidnapped by ZECT, it destroys her. The world suddenly seems too big, too impossibly cruel. Hiyori doesn't know about the various Kamen Rider identities, so she can't begin to guess why a militarized organization of nebulous authority would kidnap some amnesiac little girl. And for it to be a girl who's suffered Hiyori's own traumas, and for Hiyori to be the one who was supposed to keep her safe... all Hiyori can do is ball herself up. She needs to be held, so she holds herself. Low to the ground, trying to disappear. Hiyori doesn't exactly have a huge arc in this one. She's crushed by Gon being taken, and vows to do anything necessary to get her back. It's just, there's nothing Hiyori can do, so it's mostly moral support. It makes for a slightly unbalanced episode for Hiyori, with all of this crushing guilt in the beginning and then Eventually It All Works Out. It's great to see Hiyori involved in this All Hands On Deck story, but since it's not a story that's really about Hiyori's trauma or guilt, we mostly just get this one really beautiful shot. It's maybe enough! --- I don't want to make it sound like this episode's all bittersweet loss and traumatized young adults. There are also laughs! Obviously, that scene with Tadokoro getting simultaneously chewed out by both Misaki and Kagami, I love it. Them both yelling at him about the chilling moral implications of ZECT abducting a child, and him being all Yes And about it, hilarious. I feel like Tadokoro spends a good 80% of his workday fielding complaints about ZECT from these two, and the other 20% throwing those complaints in the trash. Misaki and Kagami got real weird opinions about what exactly Tadokoro's responsibilities are! But then there are the actual jokes, and it's two Kagami things. The first is big and broad, as Tadokoro is actually totally fine with undermining ZECT (or, more accurately, letting other people undermine ZECT because he would rather not leave the van), and gives up Gon's likely location in a roundabout way. It's so roundabout that Kagami thinks Misaki is suggesting they race off to a ZECT base at the shore to take a break, and he is so charmingly dumb that I only briefly worried about how Kagami would fare as an investigator in any other organization. The other thing is a tiny bit of acting that was so hilariously on-point that I need to call it out. It's when everyone's plotting in the kitchen of the ZECT base, and Tendou is about to do his My Grandmother speech in defense of the sanctity of food. (Real great episode for Tendou and food, incidentally. There's the little bit he dies inside as he confesses to Juka that there is miso soup in the world that is better than his. But my favorite food bit for Tendou this episode is that, when faced with the difficulty of ensuring Gon's future safety, his move is What If I Just Made A Ton Of Delicious Soups. And it sort of works! Bonus points because, even when Gon dismisses them all as not being good enough, you can tell that Tendou's already thinking about making even more soup.) Just as Tendou gets all in his Proclamation Zone, Kagami's right behind him and you can see him roll his eyes. Kagami is not at all jazzed to listen to Tendou get all up on his soapbox when Gon is being held captive right upstairs! It's so unbelievably minor (almost no one should be looking at Kagami in this shot), but it's pretty funny. --- Kageyama is so the worst that I'm going to officially start calling him TheWorst. He's cartoonishly awful in this one, clearly enjoying making both Gon and Daisuke suffer, and visibly thrilled to make that suffering last indefinitely. There aren't a lot of layers or shades to his performance, but TheWorst's suit actor does something I got a kick out of. It's during the big three-way fight at the end between Kabuto, ShootHopper, and TheWorst. Kabuto and TheWorst spar for a couple seconds, and then TheWorst gets knocked down against some chairs. Just before he picks himself back up, he punches one of the chairs in frustration. It's a very TheWorst move, not being able to contain his frustration as yet another scheme starts to get away from him. It's a shame that Kageyama's actor can't find the same details! --- Holy shit, amazing fights in this one. Great, great uses of Clock Up and finishers and whatnot. (Actually, last episode had a thing I never mentioned that I liked. When Hiyori and Gon are getting attacked by the Worm, Kabuto shows up in the nick of time, with CLOCK OVER calling out his arrival. He Clocked Up and ran all the way to save them, is I think the implication? We never see his bike, so that's how I took it. I thought that was a fun way to build tension, having Kabuto expend Clock Up just to get to the fight in time.) The underwater sequence, with ShootHopper's unbelievably heroic dive into the bay, so fun. Those little charges of him raking Kabuto, and then Kabuto using Cast Off to fake his death, I dug it. The finale was sensational, though. The choreography of ShootHooper firing his finisher at TheWorst; TheWorst using Clock Up to dodge ShootHopper's finisher and move in to finish off ShootHopper; Kabuto using Clock Up to Rider Kick ShootHopper's finisher at TheWorst, who ducks behind ShootHopper; and then ShootHopper using Clock Up to to move out of TheWorst's way, leaving TheWorst to get taken out by ShootHopper's original finisher... it is the best. Maybe the best choreographed action sequence in this show to date. --- Obviously, all of those little things (and several big things!) are only in service to this episode's inevitable, heartbreaking ending. Daisuke saves Gon, reunites her with her mother, but loses her for good. She's happy with her mother, back to being Yuriko, her time as Gon forgotten. It's tragic, for how much they both once needed each other. This wasn't just some story that could end with Daisuke, fine on his own. He needed that little girl. She was his partner. She may not know what she's lost, but Daisuke is acutely aware of what he's missing. He strains to explain what she means to him, to put it into words, but the only one who'd know the right words was Gon. But he lets her go, because of course he does. He wants what's best for her. She means enough to him to see himself diminished if it means she's safe and happy. It's probably impossible for him to figure out how he came to care so much for her. He once saw a little girl, confused and alone. He bought her a strawberry milk. It was a little thing, a tiny detail. But it led to so much more for both of them. A QUESTION Lovely episode... that then takes all of the heartbreak and drama it's earned over this story and finishes with HEY LOOK A NEW ZECTER. I cannot tell you how weird a note it was to end on, and it's maybe the only thing in this episode I'd point at as Bad. Did it work better for you? Were you okay with this Daisuke/Gon episode ending with a New Zecter cliffhanger? ![]() Last edited by Kamen Rider Die; 08-28-2023 at 07:56 PM.. |
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#287 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,481
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I haven't watched this episode or any of kabuto really, but I'm excited for new Zectar because it's attached to one of my fave riders that I know about through rider knowledge osmosis.
Also this really does remind me I need to start watching this show at some point, but for now I must uuuuuh... okay I really have no excuse for not watching except I don't really want to atm. On a very cursed note, one of my earliest kamen rider memories was people online saying Daisuke and Gon's relationship seemed romantic and that's uh kind of bad now in this context.
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#288 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,713
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I haven't watched this episode or any of kabuto really, but I'm excited for new Zectar because it's attached to one of my fave riders that I know about through rider knowledge osmosis.
Also this really does remind me I need to start watching this show at some point, but for now I must uuuuuh... okay I really have no excuse for not watching except I don't really want to atm. On a very cursed note, one of my earliest kamen rider memories was people online saying Daisuke and Gon's relationship seemed romantic and that's uh kind of bad now in this context. And, man, no need to explain not having the time/desire for a Kamen Rider show. These things should never be work! also if anyone ever thinks a father caring for the well-being of his daughter "seems romantic" i would like for them to leave the internet immediately |
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#289 |
Echoing Oni
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,686
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Yeah, this one was really great. My own quibble with "I'm not really sure that's how amnesia works" aside, this was just a fantastically emotional 24 minutes of Kamen Rider. I can almost forgive Daisuke being an asshole in the previous episode because it led us to this point. The bit at the end where he stutters on a compliment and Yuriko doesn't correct him, so beautifully poignant.
Loved the fight scene at the end, too, with each Rider pulling off a Clock Up trick to fire, redirect, and evade. Excellent. As far as the next Zecter showing up goes, I'm fine with it. This was the end of a chapter for the show, so I'm okay with closing out on a teaser for the next big story arc (I also know who that Zecter goes to and I am very excited for them to show up). |
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#290 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 2,866
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In all honestly, I’d have been fine if this was Drake’s last appearance, bar the movie, the video game (I’ll be discussing about that a little later in the thread) and perhaps a cameo in one of those big all rider fight movies (which he has yet to do, surprisingly enough).
The new Zecter, I’ll say this. He’s the last of the 4 that get regular DX/SG items (including themed bullets for the ZECT Miser and buttons on another weapon down the line). All later Riders after him have their additional merch limited to CSM (and that includes our actual secondary, who if you haven’t guessed who that’s going to be, I don’t know what to think.) |
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