[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

I don't have any behind-the-scenes insight, but from some of the cast photos (I'll talk about the bunny hate eventually) we got it just seemed like Hiroaki Iwanaga was a really fun guy to hang out with so the show just kept him around a lot longer than initially planned.

It wouldn't shock me? I've been pretty on the record with my criticism of Gotou's actor, and similarly transparent about my enjoyment of Date's addition to the series. I can't imagine the production team wasn't having an equivalent sense that Date was way smarter to build around as a Secondary than Gotou. Date's stuff just works better onscreen than anything Gotou's trying to get across?

[Kamen Rider Die]

KAMEN RIDER OOO EPISODE 34 - “BEST FRIENDS, MANIPULATIONS, AND RELATIONSHIPS”



What are Eiji and Ankh to each other?

It’s the definitive question of this series. If there’s a narrative engine to this show, that’s it. Where other shows would prioritize an exploration of human desire, or the boundaries between wanting something and needing something, this show backgrounds those themes in favor of a relationship that never quite settles into anything explicitly positive or negative. It’s never exactly a friendship, or a partnership, or a rivalry, or a pact, or a coercion. It’s all of those things. It’s complicated.

Best part of the episode is probably Eiji saying that even his side of the OOO team is about manipulation. He’s manipulating Ankh so that he can get the power he needs to fulfill his desire to do good, much like Ankh needs Eiji to regain his independence and safety. It’s the Kamen Rider thing of using evil to do good, but it’s not the Medals, it’s Ankh. Ankh is the evil that Eiji’s using to do good. Seeing Eiji, the guy who would lie about participating in a Fun Kidnapping just to spare a creep like Kitamura the embarrassment that Ankh gleefully lets loose, confess that he and Ankh are just using each other to get what they want… it sort of normalizes their relationship in an almost tragic way. It’s not about Ankh’s Cunning Schemes and Eiji’s Heroic Resolve, it’s about two people who need the other to get what they want. That’s it.

And yet, again: complicated. It might’ve been that at one point, but everything they’ve gone through over the last eight months has turned that transactional agreement into first a grudging acceptance -slash- cohabitation, and now something more like support. While Ankh could not care less about Kitamura – he immediately and epically blows up Kitamura’s lies in front of Eiji and Hina, right after he told Kitamura he wouldn’t; classic – he knows that Eiji does care about him, so he steers the rampaging PuToTyra away from the helpless fanboy and towards himself. (He was clearly paying attention to Gotou’s strategy at the beginning of 33, and he would very much like you not to say that out loud.) Everything Ankh does at the end is under the veneer of What’s Best For Ankh, but there’s the tacit acknowledgement that Eiji is what’s best for Ankh.

Whole episode is great for how it never really tempers either Ankh (historically shitty to Kitamura, endlessly pleased with himself) or Eiji (genuinely sweet to Kitamura throughout, despite Kitamura kidnapping several of his friends) while still making their connection even more vibrant and heartwarming. This one was maybe Peak OOO? (Or maybe it just was on OOO Peak?)

[Androzani84]

This is one i don’t remember that well. I think it’s the one time the Medagabyru’s TaToBa attack is used (and I do remember the only other combo based attack from the toy that appeared in the show was SaGohZo). I’ve got a bit more to say about the next two-parter though.

[DreadBringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER OOO EPISODE 34 - “BEST FRIENDS, MANIPULATIONS, AND RELATIONSHIPS”

It’s the definitive question of this series. If there’s a narrative engine to this show, that’s it. Where other shows would prioritize an exploration of human desire, or the boundaries between wanting something and needing something, this show backgrounds those themes in favor of a relationship that never quite settles into anything explicitly positive or negative. It’s never exactly a friendship, or a partnership, or a rivalry, or a pact, or a coercion. It’s all of those things. It’s complicated.

And this'd not be exclusive to OOO, I wish that this part of partnership is more widely recognized by the fanbase, particularly for more lighthearted shows, that a party isn't always working together because they care deeply about each other, and that any claims they have otherwise is just described as being tsundere or quirky, particularly if the allies never really cause bad outcomes or has put themselves in risky situations, like how Ankh in this episode hurt his arm to stop PuToTyra's rampage. It's not always all black and white between the hero and villain group, and this isn't only limited to darker shows. Kobayashi's previous series Den-O also was this before in the Imagins being needed for Ryotaro to help others, with Ryotaro also forcing them to comply to him, though obviously Ryotaro would be a positive influence for them, and this'd also apply in OOO for Ankh as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Best part of the episode is probably Eiji saying that even his side of the OOO team is about manipulation. He’s manipulating Ankh so that he can get the power he needs to fulfill his desire to do good, much like Ankh needs Eiji to regain his independence and safety. It’s the Kamen Rider thing of using evil to do good, but it’s not the Medals, it’s Ankh. Ankh is the evil that Eiji’s using to do good. Seeing Eiji, the guy who would lie about participating in a Fun Kidnapping just to spare a creep like Kitamura the embarrassment that Ankh gleefully lets loose, confess that he and Ankh are just using each other to get what they want… it sort of normalizes their relationship in an almost tragic way. It’s not about Ankh’s Cunning Schemes and Eiji’s Heroic Resolve, it’s about two people who need the other to get what they want. That’s it.

OOO was also used by the evil tyrannical Ancient King who wanted to obtain godhood. Desire incarnate in opposite to the desireless Eiji. And previously Date using Birth also came from the even worse Maki (iirc the one who designed the OOO belt as well), who was still evil even during his time with the Foundation like using the scientists as guinea pigs and still talking about ending everything. Though dunno that if you describe Ankh as the evil here, he'd still be described as the heroes in this talks. Being cunning (or even manipulative) is just about being smart, and Eiji does have that too like threatening to drop the OOO belt or getting himself hurt so Ankh would comply. It often happens that do-gooders will blame themselves for things outside of their control, like Eiji blaming himself for making Kitamura act this way, or failing to achieve his dreams he talked to Kitamura before.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

And yet, again: complicated. It might’ve been that at one point, but everything they’ve gone through over the last eight months has turned that transactional agreement into first a grudging acceptance -slash- cohabitation, and now something more like support. While Ankh could not care less about Kitamura – he immediately and epically blows up Kitamura’s lies in front of Eiji and Hina, right after he told Kitamura he wouldn’t; classic – he knows that Eiji does care about him, so he steers the rampaging PuToTyra away from the helpless fanboy and towards himself. (He was clearly paying attention to Gotou’s strategy at the beginning of 33, and he would very much like you not to say that out loud.) Everything Ankh does at the end is under the veneer of What’s Best For Ankh, but there’s the tacit acknowledgement that Eiji is what’s best for Ankh.

Feels that this episode takes off some blame from Kitamura (not about Eiji's cover story), that Kazari manipulated him to convince him that Ankh is dangerous for Eiji, which is rather half-truth, and that he seemingly has genuine remorse in not realizing that the Yummy would kidnap people, despite that he kidnapped Hina without Yummy stuff, unlike how the Yummy is the one that kidnapped Date and Goto. Some people claim if one is manipulated by a bigger villain, then they're blameless and are completely controlled by the manipulator, but I think the ones that got manipulated still has agency and making their own decisions (except perhaps Lost Ankh, which you'd think so), where Kitamura still jumps into the conclusions to kidnap Ankh without knowing anything about him as well as attacking Hina who is unrelated to the information provided by Kazari.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androzani84

I think it?s the one time the Medagabyru?s TaToBa attack is used (and I do remember the only other combo based attack from the toy that appeared in the show was SaGohZo).

I've watched 34 episodes of OOO this year, and I honestly have no idea what this means. So, yeah, maybe this was that episode!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

And this'd not be exclusive to OOO, I wish that this part of partnership is more widely recognized by the fanbase, particularly for more lighthearted shows, that a party isn't always working together because they care deeply about each other,

I feel like this is pretty well acknowledged? At least around here? This is basically the text of every single Yuya Takahashi Rider show, most explicitly Ex-Aid.

[Kamen Rider Die]

KAMEN RIDER OOO EPISODE 35 - “DREAMS, A BROTHER, AND BIRTH’S SECRET”



AND BIRTH’S SECRET:
Let’s go back to this format, because this episode has three things in it that don’t super overlap yet, at least in a thematic sense. The most sort of random of the three is Date’s terminal case of Brain Bulletry, which has chosen this episode to make itself an immediate and deadly obstacle. (It sort of ties in with what’s going on with Ankh/Shingo, as a way of talking about how precarious everyone’s ability to contribute is becoming, but that feels like a bit of a stretch.) I like, as always, that Kougami completely doesn’t care about everyone’s ulterior motives and secret histories; on the contrary, he thinks they’re SPLENDID! or whatever. While Date fears losing access to Birth as the result of his, uh, lead poisoning, Kougami’s typically Do As Thou Wilt, As Long As It’s Weird. Kougami is as keen as I am on this show putting people in dramatic danger!

There’s not much for it yet – Date cops to it, and loses a couple fights to his encroaching brain death. We’re not really in a story that can make it a priority (see the next two sections), so it feels a little underserved here. It’s very much a Date/Gotou story that’s happening parallel to the rest of the episode, without ever quite feeling looped into it. (I don’t think Team OOO shares any non-battle dialogue with Team Birth this time out?) It’s an interesting plot, but it feels fairly dropped into this episode.

A BROTHER:
The bigger issue, in regards to health issues derailing the battle against the Greeed, is that Shingo is… getting better?

As ticking clocks go in this narrative, it’s easy to forget that Shingo’s basically inevitable recuperation will mean that Ankh gets evicted from his comatose (?) body, which will render him incredibly vulnerable to any number of former friends -slash- body parts that might wish him ill. Like, this is objectively a good thing for characters like Hina and, y’know, Shingo, while still being pretty bad for Ankh and Team OOO’s effectiveness in combatting the Greeed. It’s a great twist because it’s not a clear win. Hina definitely wants her brother back! But that means Ankh is pretty screwed, and Eiji probably along with him.

It’s a testament to how complex the relationships are in this episode, that A Guy Survives A Car Accident And Possession is a plot point that sets up a tense cliffhanger. There’s so much going on between Uva, Kazari, Maki, Ankh Lost, Hina, Eiji, and Ankh that we’re kind of rooting for and against everybody. I felt most connected to Kazari this time out, since he was more intrigued about everyone’s weird plans than he was about protecting himself, so he “lost” a bunch of Mezool and Gamel’s Medals to Uva, just to see if Uva could actually resurrect them. (I genuinely loved how broad and theatrical Kazari was with his whole WHOOPS I Guess I’ll Go thing at the park, as he shows up just long enough to take one hit and cough up four Core Medals. I almost wish he’d just flung the Medals at Uva’s head, Faiz Accel style.) This is an episode with a million moving parts that leverages all of the various character work done in the first 34 episodes, and it works like a dream.

DREAMS:
Speaking of!

One of the more interesting things from this episode is how it talked about the difference between Desire and Dreams. A desire could be something like Food, or Fighting, or Friendship – not just F words, but also not not just F words. Desire is maybe something that can’t ever really be quenched, and just has to be managed through your life. There’s no endpoint for desire, beyond irrevocable trauma during a civil war, and even that isn’t a sure thing. But a dream? A dream’s just a goal, and you can achieve a goal. Winning a race, having a hit record… this stuff is what you work toward, and maybe one day you get it. It’s something you can reach out and grab.

I honestly don’t remember if we’ve heard of Hina’s fashion industry dreams before? I imagine we have, but it didn’t matter more than just tiny character details whenever it might’ve popped up. (I don’t recall any plots hingeing on Hina’s knowledge or love of fashion?) Having her dream of a career in fashion come up against her reluctance to leave Shingo, and then have that dream maybe destroyed in a way that resurrects Shingo, knowing that said resurrection is probably Game Over for Ankh and a huge setback for Eiji… good way to talk about the power of dreams, and how the pursuit of them can lead you into weird places!

Really, though, it’s nice just to have a little conversation between Eiji and Hina about pursuing dreams. It’s just a cute scene. I like how the two of them, outside the constant danger of the Greeed, can talk about how their lives are standing still, and how that’s maybe something that needs to stop soon. Hina’s reluctant to pursue a dream that could take her away from Shingo, while Eiji’s reluctant to decide on a dream that might crush him again. (Look at how fast he changes the topic when Hina brings it up!)

Super stuffed episode of OOO, and not all of it felt like it was part of the same story, but I have zero complaints. Excellent episode!

[Androzani84]

Now this one, I do remember better. Admittedly, it’s because Hina’s fashion design goals become more prominent in OOO’s post show appearances (most subtly in Zi-O, where KurotOh commissions her to create a set of zombie themed robots, doesn’t let her react as he glitches out and then throws her in the dungeon), probably because both this episode and said later appearances were written by Mouri.

There’s also a notable guest in this episode.

Special Guest Alert

The fashion judge who offers Hina a job in Paris is played by Shigeki Kagemaru. The reason he’s listed as a special guest rather than being identified by one franchise is because… he’s been around. Within Kamen Rider, he was the Squid Orphnoch in Faiz, in the Ultra Series, he had a lot of appearances in 2nd Generation shows, most notably as Shinjoh in Ultraman Tiga. And most notably, over in Metal Heroes, he was Hayato Kano/DraftRedder/SyncRedder, the lead of Tokusou Exceedraft (the one where the big bad is Satan).

[GodSpeedLove]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

For some reason, the abandoned park setting is one of my most concrete memories from this phase of OOO.

I definitely also remember that this was the episode where it really hit me that we're just going to be keeping Date around for pretty much the foreseeable future. For context: back when the show was airing we kept getting rumors every few weeks that Date was going to be killed off and Gotou would become Birth. Date may or may not then come back like the dude in Movie Wars Core. But then another month would go by and Date was still here. I don't have any behind-the-scenes insight, but from some of the cast photos (I'll talk about the bunny hate eventually) we got it just seemed like Hiroaki Iwanaga was a really fun guy to hang out with so the show just kept him around a lot longer than initially planned. This episode, though, with the scene where Gotou refuses to put on the Birth belt, is where it really felt like the show was fully committing to Date.

I also love the abandoned theme park! It might be a budget thing but I wish Kamen Rider made use of more varied locations. Also the vibes of the crew enjoying a day out (if only for a few minutes) was spectacular.

Additionally, I will add on to what everyone else is saying and say that they clearly did not intend to drag out the Date/Gotou arc (there only being that one Date focus episode with the sisters is proof of this in my mind), but I'm really not complaining. Date is fantastic! Easily my favorite secondary rider. I just wish they didn't drop the competition aspect of Date/Eiji so soon. I thought it was really interesting for a show about currency/desire for two characters fighting the same monsters for different reasons (and disagreeing on who gets the spoils). Date being somewhat selfish but realistic is really refreshing. That was a thing for maybe 3-4 episodes? But by now he's just part of the crew, and I think that happened too fast or without a proper transition. That's just me though, what do you think?

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androzani84

Now this one, I do remember better. Admittedly, it?s because Hina?s fashion design goals become more prominent in OOO?s post show appearances (most subtly in Zi-O, where KurotOh commissions her to create a set of zombie themed robots, doesn?t let her react as he glitches out and then throws her in the dungeon), probably because both this episode and said later appearances were written by Mouri.

I appreciate that the show tells us what Hina's going to college for, you know? Too many other shows might just leave it at She's A Student, locked in time and destined to never be clarified, but OOO does the extra work of giving her a goal beyond ONII-CHAN, and saying ONII-CHAN.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GodSpeedLove

I just wish they didn't drop the competition aspect of Date/Eiji so soon. I thought it was really interesting for a show about currency/desire for two characters fighting the same monsters for different reasons (and disagreeing on who gets the spoils).

Yeah, their dynamic in the early portion is almost a comedically flipped version of Eiji/Ankh -- a flamboyantly selfish Kamen Rider and his down-to-earth selfless assistant/rival. Having the two of them running an inverted version of the show's narrative engine would be a fun concept... but that's not where things ended up. Instead, we've got a more straightforward secondary hero, and his, like, butler? Gotou definitely moved from Potential Rival And/Or Replacement to just backing up Date without anyone really commenting on it or making it a major story beat. I guess Gotou fell into the gravity of Date's charisma? I can't blame him!

(Also, to be fair, Gotou Just Lands Someplace is probably his most defining trait to this point in the series, so maybe the show didn't feel the need to comment on it.)

EDIT: Oh, ha ha, you said Eiji/Date, not Gotou/Date. Whoops! Yeah, there's still a little bit of a rivalry/friction between Date and Eiji -- most notably over Eiji's reckless disregard for his own safety, versus a doctor who is dying of a brain bullet -- but the show really doesn't care about Ankh getting Cell Medals anymore. Bigger fish to fry!

[DreadBringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

I feel like this is pretty well acknowledged? At least around here? This is basically the text of every single Yuya Takahashi Rider show, most explicitly Ex-Aid.

I feel this is what I'm talking about where about Takahashi being infamous for his undeserved redemptions, people can also bring up Kuroto as one of the examples, though yes for him there are those who point out that he's still evil, just working with the heroes for mutual benefit, but still my point is many think/claim a villain joining forces with the heroes for mutual benefit is redeeming them (to me it seems like treating anyone on the good side as similarly heroic, so it means validating the villain's crimes in their eyes), and not only about Takahashi's show, but also something like Evolt working with the Build team against Killbus in V-Cinema.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER OOO EPISODE 35 - “DREAMS, A BROTHER, AND BIRTH’S SECRET”

Let’s go back to this format, because this episode has three things in it that don’t super overlap yet, at least in a thematic sense. The most sort of random of the three is Date’s terminal case of Brain Bulletry, which has chosen this episode to make itself an immediate and deadly obstacle. (It sort of ties in with what’s going on with Ankh/Shingo, as a way of talking about how precarious everyone’s ability to contribute is becoming, but that feels like a bit of a stretch.) I like, as always, that Kougami completely doesn’t care about everyone’s ulterior motives and secret histories; on the contrary, he thinks they’re SPLENDID! or whatever. While Date fears losing access to Birth as the result of his, uh, lead poisoning, Kougami’s typically Do As Thou Wilt, As Long As It’s Weird. Kougami is as keen as I am on this show putting people in dramatic danger!

Kougami doesn't care about ulterior motives or secret histories yeah, which'd be something appealing about him as a character, though it makes him suspicious, due to him also being tolerant of villainous desires like the Greeed's and Maki's and unlike Sougo, would support them achieving it unless his own desire is threatened, so he's also an enabler. Though ulterior motive shouldn't fit Date here, one can want to survive without his good acts to others being just something fake to cover/work towards his personal goal. Dunno about placing it here as you said, but this is the tease of Date's actual goal, and still explains why Date is struggling in his fight against the MOTW this episode.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

As ticking clocks go in this narrative, it’s easy to forget that Shingo’s basically inevitable recuperation will mean that Ankh gets evicted from his comatose (?) body, which will render him incredibly vulnerable to any number of former friends -slash- body parts that might wish him ill. Like, this is objectively a good thing for characters like Hina and, y’know, Shingo, while still being pretty bad for Ankh and Team OOO’s effectiveness in combatting the Greeed. It’s a great twist because it’s not a clear win. Hina definitely wants her brother back! But that means Ankh is pretty screwed, and Eiji probably along with him.

This reminds me of Kobayashi's previous show Ryuki again, where in the 30-ish episode mark, the loved one of a main cast in coma temporarily wakes up, Ren's fiancee Eri, and here it's Hina's brother Shingo. The cast also worked on to get Eri to safety that time when Eri also puts herself in an incredibly vulnerable position by walking out of hospital, and it obviously put Ren in a conflicted position too. This also explains how Ankh "congratulated" her or defended her against the Yummy, which is caused by Shingo already awakening that time and taking control of his body to be a big brother for Hina. And those who think it's Ankh consciously growing to care about Hina may think his behavior of dismissing Hina's dream don't matter due to this part.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Really, though, it’s nice just to have a little conversation between Eiji and Hina about pursuing dreams. It’s just a cute scene. I like how the two of them, outside the constant danger of the Greeed, can talk about how their lives are standing still, and how that’s maybe something that needs to stop soon. Hina’s reluctant to pursue a dream that could take her away from Shingo, while Eiji’s reluctant to decide on a dream that might crush him again. (Look at how fast he changes the topic when Hina brings it up!)

At least ep. 5-6 (the 2-parter with the rich girl Yamano) shows Hina attending a fashion university. Otherwise, from what I remember, I often see stories blame those who'd leave their loved ones to chase after their dreams, that they're seen as taking their friends or family for granted, though obviously here, Eiji and Chiyoko supports Hina's dream, albeit I knew Hina wouldn't chase after her dream as otherwise she wouldn't be a part of the main cast anymore (what some'd probably think as the righteous choice to not abandon her brother), but Eiji'd be just seen as someone who's exceptionally all-loving, tolerant, and forgiving, like Shinji sympathizing with the Riders' selfish wishes which'd make them want to murder each other, so it seems takes from someone so optimistic and positive are seen as less valid due to being so biased towards seeing the best in everyone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GodSpeedLove

I just wish they didn't drop the competition aspect of Date/Eiji so soon. I thought it was really interesting for a show about currency/desire for two characters fighting the same monsters for different reasons (and disagreeing on who gets the spoils). Date being somewhat selfish but realistic is really refreshing. That was a thing for maybe 3-4 episodes? But by now he's just part of the crew, and I think that happened too fast or without a proper transition. That's just me though, what do you think?

I rather wish that someone wanting something personal for themselves isn't always portrayed in a negative light, so I'm not looking forward towards this rivalry (though, Date should have more rivalry with Ankh specifically, not Eiji, as Ankh is the one wanting Medals) like, Date shouldn't be someone awful because he wants money, of which usually stories portray one wanting that in a negative light (and I'm also counting those who need that for desperate/necessity situation but is willing to do anything underhanded for them, or even if Date was initially awful but got inspired by Eiji later, and secondary Riders are also often jerks), or even the fanbase due to that stereotype despite the character not being so. Date can want something for his own while also being straightforwardly heroic person similar as Eiji without the need to grow better or dropping his desire due to Eiji's inspiration. I'm tired of the notion that being heroic means you must make yourself suffer, like sacrifice or making your life miserable such as giving up own dream, I mean a heroic person may do that as one way to help others, but the primary thing about heroism is helping anyone, and making one suffer isn't always the only way to achieve that (and I agree with Date calling out Eiji's reckless ways, with him pointing out that you can't save anyone if you're dead which means considering others, I guess this is the reason why Date initially refused to work with Eiji as someone who "makes himself cry", likely about his lack of regard of his own life)