[SideswipePrime]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sentai

I think you're arguing just to argue at this point. But on the chance you're not.

Allow me to school.

*Cracks knuckles*

The reason that destruction happens in the present at the same time it happens in the past is because when you change something in the past it affects the present. Marty allowed Old Biff to give Young Biff the Gray's Sports Almanac and look what happened to 1985. Same thing applies here. Because the Imagin hadn't gone into the past yet do to the damage there was nothing destroyed in modern day Japan. But when he went back through the Time Portal and began wrecking the past, it had to change in the future.

That and it's a show where young men and women use belts to transform into Fruit Samurai, Astronauts with Fast Food Robots, and Vampire Bats. So I don't think reality applies.

Just saying.

But, I do remember SPLITLIP saying that "You wouldn't think that they'd rebuild the buildings? Why do they remain destroyed in the present?" and...I have to agree there. I understand people who died in the past suddenly disappearing in the present, but the buildings are a pretty different story.

[MidoGreen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

Episode 1 de gozarimasu de-- yeah, not doing that again

I started rewatching Den-O a couple years ago but never finished. I'm glad to have an excuse to go through it again. That said, this is actually the fourth or fifth time I've seen the first episode (I sneaked a few previews back when I was first watching the Heisei shows in order back in '09). I think it still holds up as one of the best pilots in Rider's whole history. You get a strong sense of the main characters, a clear sense of the show's tone, and my favorite first henshin/fight ever (I will never stop loving the accidental swipe of the pass over the belt).

I'll also say this now: Takeru Satoh is, hands down, the best actor we've ever gotten as a main Rider.He plays six characters on this show and they all feel unique and fully realized; he's the Tatiana Maslany of Kamen Rider.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. The way he effortlessly shifts personas is fantastic. When Takeru Satoh was cast as Kenshin Himura years later, I knew instantly they cast the right person for the role because he's really good a playing a character with personality dichotomy.

[SPLIT LIP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sentai

I think you're arguing just to argue at this point. But on the chance you're not.

Then you quite clearly don't get my point.

Quote:

Allow me to school.

*Cracks knuckles*

We got a tough guy over here!

Quote:

The reason that destruction happens in the present at the same time it happens in the past is because when you change something in the past it affects the present. Marty allowed Old Biff to give Young Biff the Gray's Sports Almanac and look what happened to 1985. Same thing applies here. Because the Imagin hadn't gone into the past yet do to the damage there was nothing destroyed in modern day Japan. But when he went back through the Time Portal and began wrecking the past, it had to change in the future.

So answer me this:

Why then, does a building without supports stand for years, only to collapse in the present? Where are the explosions coming from? We see a truck smash through supports in the past, then cut to the present and see a bridge with missing supports, jagged pieces and all, collapse after it had alread collapsed years ago. We see it collapse twice. How? How did all these buildings maintain for years without any support? They should just dissapear, cease to exist, not collapse twice. What logic is that?

For all your chest-puffing and wanting to one-up me with your interwebs smarts, you seem to have jumped to the (entirely wrong) conclusion that I somehow don't think the past affects the present? For the record, I love BTTF, have watched the movies numerous times. They had the right idea. Den-O does not. That's like if the second pine got run over in the past, then just appeared flattened and dead in the present versus fading away. Or the Twin Pine Mall sign stayed the Twin Pine Mall instead of Lone Pine. How cna these things exist now if they were destroyed long ago? It's simple cause and effect. Doc explained it in BTTF2 on the calkboard. The moment the past was changed, an alternate timeline was created. Either Ryoutaro is part of that timeline, or he's not. Either way, he should have no way of viewing the destruction happen, as he is not in that time period. The buildings would either be fine because he's in the unaltered timeline, or dissapear because they've been smashed for years in the alternate timeline.

Of course events in the past affect the present, but that's just it. The present should only be seeing the effects, not the damage itself. That is in the past. If I went back in time ten years and killed my friend by shooting him in the head, why would he drop dead in the present when he's been dead since 2004? Would he just have never have made it to 2014? He'd dissapear and reappear a rotting corpse in the ditch I left him in.

Quote:

That and it's a show where young men and women use belts to transform into Fruit Samurai, Astronauts with Fast Food Robots, and Vampire Bats. So I don't think reality applies.

I love these comments.

"The subject matter is fantastcal and outlandish, therefor I should turn my brain off and accept every stupid thing the show throws at me, because science fiction doesn't deserve continuity or a strong narrative."

Quote:

Just saying.

"Just sayin'" If you want to complete the tough guy affect, you've gotta lose the "g."

But thanks for blowing up at me in the most condescending way possible and 1. assuming I somehow don't understand that cause and effect is a thing, and 2. utterly failing to make your point regardless.

I love Den-O, and it's later depictions of cause/effect qwuite clearly show that even the writers thought buildings collapsing twice was stupid, since stuff just dissapears in a pop or fade. The building thing makes even LESS sense given Den-O's explanation for time travel, in that the "past" is merely people's memories, and without memories, there is no history. Everyone would remember the buildings collapsing, and reality would alter to fit that memory, thus the buildings simply would not be there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SideswipePrime

But, I do remember SPLITLIP saying that "You wouldn't think that they'd rebuild the buildings? Why do they remain destroyed in the present?" and...I have to agree there. I understand people who died in the past suddenly disappearing in the present, but the buildings are a pretty different story.

I never said that. I never said anything like that. And even if I did, I'd still ask what's causing the buildings to collapse in the present?

I am convinced nobody nows what I'm talking about.

So imagine that bridge that the truck smashed through, yeah? In 2000-whatever, it's supports give out and it collapses. The Rubble falls, etc, and eventually it's cleaned up. The bridge is either repaired, or further dismantled, with all the materials being carried off and disposed of or recycled whatever makes you happy. So in 2007, after years of the bridge being gone and being someplace else, albiet in pieces, it reappears with people on it, just to collapse all over again for no reason.

HOW?

[2ndSndWve]

I have to agree with Split here. There is no way the buildings would go that long without being repaired. Either they would've been repaired long ago, resulting in nothing happening, or the rubble would've just been carted away, making the buildings just disappear. Anyway, I'm liking this show far more than I thought I would.

[Den-O]

It's not about those buildings being destroyed and staying that way for years. I feel like you guys are making an inference there. Time in the present and the altered event in the past happen concurrently. When those buildings and such are destroyed in the past it causes them to be destroyed in the present. Because of the paradox of them having no longer existed for whatever period of time has elapsed, the destruction occurs. Time isn't progressing normally in an instance like this so the rules of such progression can't be applied properly.

[losondro]

Who knew watching den-o would have us discussing the different properties of time travel. Yet I knew it would be coming at some point.

[algo448]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Den-O

It's not about those buildings being destroyed and staying that way for years. I feel like you guys are making an inference there. Time in the present and the altered event in the past happen concurrently. When those buildings and such are destroyed in the past it causes them to be destroyed in the present. Because of the paradox of them having no longer existed for whatever period of time has elapsed, the destruction occurs. Time isn't progressing normally in an instance like this so the rules of such progression can't be applied properly.

So buildings go kaboom in the past, but the timeline knows the buildings were originally intact, so they don't go kaboom till present day?

I always disliked that kind of time travel.

[GoseiWonder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Den-O

It's not about those buildings being destroyed and staying that way for years. I feel like you guys are making an inference there. Time in the present and the altered event in the past happen concurrently. When those buildings and such are destroyed in the past it causes them to be destroyed in the present. Because of the paradox of them having no longer existed for whatever period of time has elapsed, the destruction occurs. Time isn't progressing normally in an instance like this so the rules of such progression can't be applied properly.

Same idea as the Golden Disc in Beast Wars right? Blow up a mountain in the past, it immediately looks blown up in the future?

[SPLIT LIP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Den-O

It's not about those buildings being destroyed and staying that way for years. I feel like you guys are making an inference there. Time in the present and the altered event in the past happen concurrently. When those buildings and such are destroyed in the past it causes them to be destroyed in the present. Because of the paradox of them having no longer existed for whatever period of time has elapsed, the destruction occurs. Time isn't progressing normally in an instance like this so the rules of such progression can't be applied properly.

But how?

When does the show state that? Den-O, much like many a Kamen Rider series, demands you accept a certain fictional aspect, without even the slightest attempt at explaining it. Why and how do those events happen concurrently? What sense does that make? How, logically, does that fit with the narrative and universe presented?

There is no answer. The only reason it existed was so that the main character could witness mass destruction in order to take up the mantle of hero.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoseiWonder

Same idea as the Golden Disc in Beast Wars right? Blow up a mountain in the past, it immediately looks blown up in the future?

Except I don't believe you're remembering that episode too well.

When Rampage blows up the mountian, the Disk's image goes static, and the image of the present is shown without the mountain. It doesn't blow up in the present, it simply ceases to be. Because Rampage blew it up. Because Rampage couldn't shoot Megatron's ego, he had to blast something just as big.

The Disk is from the future, and thus, it is affected by past events. It doesn't show those events, merely shows the remnants four million years later. A tree cut down in the past will become a stump, as time has changed to reflect that action. That's how time travel should be done in a show. Basic cause and effect, except the cause is in the past, and the effect is in the future. Even with it's limited visual abilities, the episode managed to somewhat show the future mountain-stump slightly "older" without as visible damage, as erosion (sp? Never had to spell that) and four million years "rounded" it out. It's not a "fresh" crater.

Which of course was the entire turning point of the show, the realization that they posses the ability to alter time. Hell, Megatron nearly destroys the universe by creating a paradox.

Quote:

Originally Posted by algo448

So buildings go kaboom in the past, but the timeline knows the buildings were originally intact, so they don't go kaboom till present day?

I always disliked that kind of time travel.

Well exactly, how does time decide when the "present" is? Is the past not the present for the time traveller?

The thing is, they did go kaboom in the past. They went kaboom twice.

[Switchblade]

Episode 2
I always forget that the train battles were a thing. Never really saw the point to them, especially when the train weapons are so damn random.

Man, I love Hana. She was such a fun and awesome character. Rather easy on the eyes, too. Such a pity she leaves the show halfway through.

I liked the story behind the key holder dude. It's not developed a lot, but there's a nice emotional core to it, especially in how Ryotaro resolves it.