[GodSpeedLove]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

I rather wish that someone wanting something personal for themselves isn't always portrayed in a negative light, so I'm not looking forward towards this rivalry (though, Date should have more rivalry with Ankh specifically, not Eiji, as Ankh is the one wanting Medals) like, Date shouldn't be someone awful because he wants money, of which usually stories portray one wanting that in a negative light (and I'm also counting those who need that for desperate/necessity situation but is willing to do anything underhanded for them, or even if Date was initially awful but got inspired by Eiji later, and secondary Riders are also often jerks), or even the fanbase due to that stereotype despite the character not being so. Date can want something for his own while also being straightforwardly heroic person similar as Eiji without the need to grow better or dropping his desire due to Eiji's inspiration. I'm tired of the notion that being heroic means you must make yourself suffer, like sacrifice or making your life miserable such as giving up own dream, I mean a heroic person may do that as one way to help others, but the primary thing about heroism is helping anyone, and making one suffer isn't always the only way to achieve that (and I agree with Date calling out Eiji's reckless ways, with him pointing out that you can't save anyone if you're dead which means considering others, I guess this is the reason why Date initially refused to work with Eiji as someone who "makes himself cry", likely about his lack of regard of his own life)

I agree, and that's partially why I like Date so much, in relation to Eiji! Date's really looking out for himself, but it's not shown as a bad thing in the show. On the other hand, Eiji is the standard hero trope of always being selfless, but to a fault, and he gets himself in constant danger. Some shows would have Date be a jerk and Eiji be the hero all the time, but the show really stresses that Date's a nice guy who rightfully puts himself first when needed, and Eiji needs to learn from that.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

Kougami doesn't care about ulterior motives or secret histories yeah, which'd be something appealing about him as a character, though it makes him suspicious, due to him also being tolerant of villainous desires like the Greeed's and Maki's and unlike Sougo, would support them achieving it unless his own desire is threatened, so he's also an enabler.

Kougami's a guy who thinks the problem with the world is that people don't care enough, so he's always going to support someone's passion. He's a vibrant weirdo, rather than being a menacing weirdo. It's the thing that makes so delightfully not suspicious, despite the rampant mad science and tomb raiding and general corporate malfeasance.

[Switchblade]

So not necessarily tied to any specific episode, I do enjoy that we're in the phase where PuToTyra is actively dangerous to use due to Eiji's inability to control it. I always love it when a Rider's final form comes with some kind of drawback that makes just spamming it a bad idea. It doesn't necessarily have to be a berserk form like this, but I like the decision to use the final form involving the Rider have to weigh the benefits vs. some serious drawbacks: a time limit, lasting physical harm, excess energy that will explode if not burned off, etc.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

So not necessarily tied to any specific episode, I do enjoy that we're in the phase where PuToTyra is actively dangerous to use due to Eiji's inability to control it. I always love it when a Rider's final form comes with some kind of drawback that makes just spamming it a bad idea. It doesn't necessarily have to be a berserk form like this, but I like the decision to use the final form involving the Rider have to weigh the benefits vs. some serious drawbacks: a time limit, lasting physical harm, excess energy that will explode if not burned off, etc.

That is nice!... although 35 kind of messes it up by having Eiji be like HEY FREE UNDERGROUND DINOSAUR GUN-AXE in the middle of a non-PuToTyra fight, already sanding the edges off of the form's dangerous consequences. But still! Very cool when the show treats it with the appropriate foreboding!

(And, to the larger point, I like how Using A Bunch Of Combos is generally treated as a super bad thing all through the run of the show. It's what probably drove the previous OOO mad, and it's maybe killing Eiji?)

[Kamen Rider Die]

KAMEN RIDER OOO EPISODE 36 - “A BROKEN DREAM, A BODY, AND THE RETURN OF THE GREEED”



Tough one! Felt kind of underwhelming?

It’s not bad, to be clear. There’s a nice tension throughout, and a bunch of fun escalations of the series-long plot, both small and large. (My favorite little touch was that the Purple Medals inside Eiji allow him to sense the presence of an active Yummy, just like Ankh can. He’s steadily becoming a Greeed, and this is a neat way to signify it.) It’s an episode that reintroduces Mezool and Gamel into the mix, while setting Uva back at the same time. More than anything, it’s an episode that allows Eiji to control PuToTyra from start to finish, allowing him to combat three Greeed at once. Big episode! Lots of important stuff happening!

It just meant that, for me at least, the whole Unicorn Yummy plot never really went anywhere. There’s a little bit of Eiji talking about how a dream needs to be nurtured and cared for in a longer timeline than a desire, but this was kind of never supposed to be an Eiji plot? It was a Hina plot, and tangentially a Shingo plot, but then none of that really matters at the end. Hina decides to forego her dream in order to guard over Shingo, just like she did before she was hit by the Unicorn Yummy. Shingo’s still more or less comatose the whole time, so Ankh just takes his body back. (It even seems like Hina got her dream back? Maybe? It’s unclear!) The consequences of everything feel ephemeral, and the status quo seems to be right back to where we were at the end of 34, as far as the trio of Eiji, Ankh, and Hina are concerned.

The episode suffers from a lack of focus, if I had to diagnose a single cause to how much of a shrug several of these plotlines ended up as. There’s a bunch of momentum heading into this episode from the end of 35, but then the Greeed stuff dominates this episode in a way that renders everything else rushed and thin. (I sort of can’t believe we had a story where Shingo wakes up and they didn’t think to write one dialogue scene between him and Hina?) While saving Hina from dreamless slumber is a motivation for Eiji, it kind of immediately stops being a story that Hina can actively participate in, and that’s such a bummer. There’s nothing wrong with doing a story that continues to drill into Eiji’s lack of obvious motivation, but it sucks to pivot from a (rare!) Hina story in order to accommodate it. Add to that another Date/Gotou subplot that neither requires any of the other cast members nor causes any complications for them, and you’ve got a two-parter that feels like it accomplishes a bunch of Important Things without generating a compelling enough story to do it.

But, to reiterate: It’s not bad! The action continues to be super solid – we get an OOO/Birth fight versus 3 Greeed and a Yummy for the climax – and the reconstituted Greeed family is a great cliffhanger to go out on. I just… it doesn’t feel like the Dream story really gets a chance to go anywhere? And the Date stuff just gets stated, nothing else? And Ankh’s eviction from Shingo is rescinded by Ankh saying I Do What I Want? I don’t know. I kind of wanted more about Hina than the show wanted to give me, I guess. Hard to believe that she was more integral to the Shocker goof-off two-parter than this one!

[Androzani84]

You basically summed up everything I remember about this one. I’m not even sure why Eiji can control his Purple Medals now? Adaptation? Apathy? Plot demands it?

[DreadBringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER OOO EPISODE 36 - “A BROKEN DREAM, A BODY, AND THE RETURN OF THE GREEED”

It’s not bad, to be clear. There’s a nice tension throughout, and a bunch of fun escalations of the series-long plot, both small and large. (My favorite little touch was that the Purple Medals inside Eiji allow him to sense the presence of an active Yummy, just like Ankh can. He’s steadily becoming a Greeed, and this is a neat way to signify it.) It’s an episode that reintroduces Mezool and Gamel into the mix, while setting Uva back at the same time. More than anything, it’s an episode that allows Eiji to control PuToTyra from start to finish, allowing him to combat three Greeed at once. Big episode! Lots of important stuff happening!

It takes Purple Medals for Eiji to sense Yummies, where in Ryuki, it takes only the default Advent Decks so that the Riders can sense the Mirror Monsters. And so, Mezool and Gamel indeed died back then, but got resurrected now. Eiji controlling the powers shouldn't change about how final forms are supposed to destroy, those weaker Greeeds when he can pummel current Kazari, the change is that, Eiji being a danger to his allies are solved now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

It just meant that, for me at least, the whole Unicorn Yummy plot never really went anywhere. There’s a little bit of Eiji talking about how a dream needs to be nurtured and cared for in a longer timeline than a desire, but this was kind of never supposed to be an Eiji plot? It was a Hina plot, and tangentially a Shingo plot, but then none of that really matters at the end. Hina decides to forego her dream in order to guard over Shingo, just like she did before she was hit by the Unicorn Yummy. Shingo’s still more or less comatose the whole time, so Ankh just takes his body back. (It even seems like Hina got her dream back? Maybe? It’s unclear!) The consequences of everything feel ephemeral, and the status quo seems to be right back to where we were at the end of 34, as far as the trio of Eiji, Ankh, and Hina are concerned.

There have been previous Yummies where their damages are undone when they're destroyed, such as Tsukuba's Yummy, but yeah, it's unclear here if Hina and the others get their dreams back, which, it should be if Shouko hopes to see Hina again in school, of which if Hina throws away her dream, she'd be no longer going to school. Hina does seemingly decline her offer to go to France, but still continue pursuing her dream, but Shouko's story is what I feel is more inconclusive about her daddy issues, with her seemingly not dropping out as well despite being forced to by her dad, and that it's her main conflict that puts her at odds with Hina to claim to see Hina again in school. So it seems the Yummy is like those previous ones. Like Ryuki though, obviously Eri and Shingo waking up won't last long, and the status quo would be kept so the viewers won't feel different in watching OOO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

The episode suffers from a lack of focus, if I had to diagnose a single cause to how much of a shrug several of these plotlines ended up as. There’s a bunch of momentum heading into this episode from the end of 35, but then the Greeed stuff dominates this episode in a way that renders everything else rushed and thin. (I sort of can’t believe we had a story where Shingo wakes up and they didn’t think to write one dialogue scene between him and Hina?) While saving Hina from dreamless slumber is a motivation for Eiji, it kind of immediately stops being a story that Hina can actively participate in, and that’s such a bummer. There’s nothing wrong with doing a story that continues to drill into Eiji’s lack of obvious motivation, but it sucks to pivot from a (rare!) Hina story in order to accommodate it. Add to that another Date/Gotou subplot that neither requires any of the other cast members nor causes any complications for them, and you’ve got a two-parter that feels like it accomplishes a bunch of Important Things without generating a compelling enough story to do it.

They seem to make the Yummy problem here a more mortal one, in how at least 2 of his victims, Hina and the artist, have their bodies deteriorated as they live without desire and dream and thus need the Yummy to be taken down to save lives as well. This seems to be done so that it feels more necessary to take down the Yummy, prioritizing toku flick (like the Greeed reunion in this episode), but I do feel that the story would be likely more impactful if the Yummy's victims stay conscious and active (so Hina can participate), and to show the problems of living empty without them going unconscious. I want to see more of Hina's talk about claiming to dream about becoming a designer being 'selfish' compared to what's going on (likely about taking care of Shingo) and about when she regains her dream, which some people may claim those who want that are bad for not volunteering for 'noble' jobs like doctor or such, or yes, "not thinking about others' that have it worse" (likely what Eiji is about to focus on taking care of other people).

Quote:

Originally Posted by GodSpeedLove

I agree, and that's partially why I like Date so much, in relation to Eiji! Date's really looking out for himself, but it's not shown as a bad thing in the show. On the other hand, Eiji is the standard hero trope of always being selfless, but to a fault, and he gets himself in constant danger. Some shows would have Date be a jerk and Eiji be the hero all the time, but the show really stresses that Date's a nice guy who rightfully puts himself first when needed, and Eiji needs to learn from that.

Yeah, but this'd be why there is little to no rivalry between Eiji and Date. Jerks tend to create conflicts more due to their incapability to treat others well, and rivalry, though not always, sounds like a conflict that creates heated up situations. And if it's against a nice guy, conflicts are often about them dealing with awful people who has no qualms making things worse (even about denied happiness in someone), putting them at odds with said nice guy who wants to protect happiness. If Date is nice while wanting money, then by that character he'd be also doing Eiji a favor in also taking care of others, yeah.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androzani84

You basically summed up everything I remember about this one. I?m not even sure why Eiji can control his Purple Medals now? Adaptation? Apathy? Plot demands it?

I think it's more because This Is Bad. Eiji controlling the Purple Medals means he's becoming a Greeed, and absolutely nothing good can come from that. It's basically what Maki's doing to himself! That should be a huge warning bell!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

It takes Purple Medals for Eiji to sense Yummies, where in Ryuki, it takes only the default Advent Decks so that the Riders can sense the Mirror Monsters.

Ha ha, the thing that made me notice that Eiji could sense the Yummy was that he's doing the exact same Head Move To Sound Effect thing that Shinji would always do in Ryuki. Hidden tribute via Kobayashi!

[Kamen Rider Die]

KAMEN RIDER OOO HYPER BATTLE VIDEO - “QUIZ, DANCE, AND TAKAGAROOBA”



It’s so weird to talk about this era of HBVs, where the idea of Interactive DVDs became the structure within which all storytelling needed to work. There’s a cute story here – Hina helping Ankh and Eiji become a more formidable team so they can defeat two rampaging Yummies – but it’s really more about how that story can properly leverage the expected tools of the pack-ins.

INTERACTIVE QUIZ:
I don’t at all understand how Eiji not being able to catch Medals thrown by Ankh would be improved by knowing how fast a cheetah can run, or what an octopus looks like? The quiz here is kind of haphazardly instituted. The questions are fine, nothing ever feels unfair in its execution, but it feels like we’re just getting a quiz for the sake of it. Like, maybe we could’ve had a moment in the first fight where the heroes mistake one Medal for another and get beat up because of it?

DANCE/WORKOUT:
I think an HBV sneaking in some light calisthenics under the guise of team-building dance moves is perfect. Den-O did it, as I recall, and I’ve got fond memories of the eventual Wizard version. Plus, it actually makes sense in the context of the problem the heroes are facing!

EXCLUSIVE MERCH:
Hey kids, which do you think will be more useful in helping OOO defeat his enemies: some random Medal you may or may not own, or the COOL NEW KANGAROO MEDAL that came packed with this issue of TV-Kun? Truly, the least difficult choice to make in this interactive battle section. I like that there’re two potential correct solutions in this answer matrix, but it’s incredibly funny and lazy that the correct solutions are just The New Medal, period, the end. Very important to teach children that The New Toy is always and forever the best option to use in a battle against evil, something that’ll serve them well as Kamen Rider fans going forward.

Under the very specific restrictions of these types of HBVs, I thought this one was okay enough. I wish the quiz was better motivated, but the rest of it slotted in nicely with a story of teamwork and coordination. All that, and Ankh got robbed at the end of the only reason he was participating in this ridiculousness – the best ending possible!

[GuardianAngel87]

I recall that Kamen Rider Kiva also did something like this as well.