[AkibaSilver]

After a few years of Kouta's space-godness basically being "Yeah he can just fly around space and also dig up Mr Belt from the Drive Pit", having him be represnted with such abstract, overwhelming weirdness is great. Not to mention how he's the first one to resist getting wiped from time just long enough to fix Geiz and Sougo's relationship with a helpful bit of time trickery. Thank you Fruit Jesus.

Oh, and also in "Minor plot details that no-one should worry about", I remember people theorising/claiming that the Hellheim here is a fake created by Another Gaim, which is why Baron didn't turn into an Invess after five minutes.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androzani84

In terms of the plot, I pretty much loved it. The ?begin on a form debut? that?s so rare (this is the one time it?s applied to a form change, rather than a final form), complete with it unfolding Gaim style. And pairing Geiz off with Kaito pretty much comments on the similarity between the two, in that they?re both Knight Templar characters who are unwavering in their beliefs, though for different reasons (Kaito is unwavering because he?s held onto them for so long that he simply isn?t going to get over them, while Geiz is unwavering because none of his negative traits have any consequences, so he sees no reason to learn a lesson). If anything though, Geiz at least has the potential to change things around, with Kaito being the Jacob Marley in his Christmas Carol.

Yeah, I've liked how the show has had the few Geiz plots be ones with secondaries. It's fun to see grim executioner Geiz run up against dudes who've already had his character arc (Hiiro, Kaito) or dudes who could not be less impressed with his character arc (Kousuke).

Quote:

Originally Posted by AkibaSilver

After a few years of Kouta's space-godness basically being "Yeah he can just fly around space and also dig up Mr Belt from the Drive Pit", having him be represnted with such abstract, overwhelming weirdness is great. Not to mention how he's the first one to resist getting wiped from time just long enough to fix Geiz and Sougo's relationship with a helpful bit of time trickery. Thank you Fruit Jesus.

Judgmentally-Weird Space God is my favorite post-show version of Kouta. I do sorta miss that orange puffy vest, though.

[Sh Ranger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androzani84

In terms of the plot, I pretty much loved it. The ?begin on a form debut? that?s so rare (this is the one time it?s applied to a form change, rather than a final form), complete with it unfolding Gaim style. And pairing Geiz off with Kaito pretty much comments on the similarity between the two, in that they?re both Knight Templar characters who are unwavering in their beliefs, though for different reasons (Kaito is unwavering because he?s held onto them for so long that he simply isn?t going to get over them, while Geiz is unwavering because none of his negative traits have any consequences, so he sees no reason to learn a lesson). If anything though, Geiz at least has the potential to change things around, with Kaito being the Jacob Marley in his Christmas Carol.

I didn't like how Kaito ended up as a villain, but I thought it was smart to use that as a warning to Geiz about what he could became if he doesn't change his ways. Reminds me of Kaito's advice to Shapool about fighting for your right to live in Gaim Saga Balon, which was also written by Mouri, along with Gaim Saga Knuckle and some of the Gaim episodes I actually enjoyed. I thought it was a good decision to let him write this arc for sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Judgmentally-Weird Space God is my favorite post-show version of Kouta. I do sorta miss that orange puffy vest, though.

Since you brought up God Kouta's fashion sense, I want to mention that I like his new casual white outfit. It looks a lot more practical than the Kiwami armor he was wearing before.

[DreadBringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

But, by that comparison, Geiz would be Ryuki and Sougo would be Ren. The problem is, Ren is a gigantic asshole. If this show wanted to move Sougo into being a gigantic asshole... I mean, I'd dislike it, but it would make parts of this story easier to follow. They didn't, though. They made him a sweet boy who beat the crap out of what he considers a good friend.

And not even for, like, a ruse or anything. Sougo wasn't undercover, or planning on taking Kuroto down from within. It's not until midway through Episode 10 where he decides to stand against Kuroto. When Sougo's fighting Geiz, the argument is You Are Helping A Villain versus Okay. That doesn't exactly paint Sougo in the best light?

Oh right... how can I forget. Undercover was the word I'm looking for. I do thought Sougo went undercover against Kuroto somewhat. But then again you thought Sougo became cunning instead of always cunning, and I thought Sougo puts a dimwitted act normally unless when it's necessary (ep. 8). I guess it can also be a case of how Sougo's scatter-brained act is too convincing that it can be a criticism for some that he seems inconsistent or the series being tryhard to make him not seem a fool, including him extending his stay to further investigate Kuroto's rule by fighting Geiz, also capturing Eiji and Hina. At least it's not portrayed as if Sougo realized Kuroto is wrong or something, he just stated his true motivation later when taking him down. And to be specific I was refering to scenarios like Ryuki Survive debut or especially when Shinji's the one almost finishing him. Also Geiz constantly looked for excuse to kill Sougo (I refer to the fight where Geiz fought him with Sougo using Geiz's kick to henshin for example, that's started by Geiz), if he can go through that is not known but likely not... i̶t̶'̶d̶ ̶f̶u̶r̶t̶h̶e̶r̶ ̶m̶a̶k̶e̶ ̶h̶i̶m̶ ̶l̶i̶k̶e̶ ̶R̶e̶n̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶o̶n̶l̶y̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶a̶p̶p̶e̶a̶r̶e̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶o̶u̶g̶h̶.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER ZI-O EPISODE 11 - ?ZI-O ON PARADE 2018?

Right off the bat, we?re going with this overhead shot of Woz delivering the foreword. Beyond just looking dynamic (which nearly all of these shots for the episode will), it?s a fun image of machinery, gears, clockwork. There?s an emphasis on interlocking elements and cooperative movement that feels like a nice clue to this story?s approach.

And then a great big clock! Some of what I like about this shot is the framing, the stillness. There?s also the dissolve out from Woz?z platform of gears onto a working clock, which is a fun transition. But it also elevates a background motif into something Important To The Story, you know? We?re in a loopy time travel story, and we will be seeing a ton of clocks!

And even Sougo's last name is Tokiwa. Toki means time. His uncle also owns a clock shop and repair service. The intro also had Sougo inspecting clocks on his uncle's shop. Other than that Woz here gave a clock for Junichiro to fix.... finally being a customer that abides to Junichiro's needs. Woz seems to be trying to get along with Sougo's relatives too here, albeit probably he can do that to gain favor for Sougo. Woz further shows to be villainous here though (albeit he's affably evil) to act upon elimitating Geiz and prevent Sougo helping him, to ensure that the tyrant comes. But Sougo states Woz as a nice guy against Junichiro. You're right he can'r see the bad in people and that one is blind, or him acting stupid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

THIS SHOT! Kouta?s telling Sougo that if he can?t trust in his friends to take care of themselves ? if he has to do everything for them, like he?s above them ? then he doesn?t deserve to have them. He deserves to be alone in his power. And then Kouta drops out the floor, leaving the two all-powerful characters literally standing all alone.

"All-powerful"... so both Sougo too? How did you guess that Sougo is also all-powerful? I know that Ohma Zi-O did rule the world but for him to be deemed all-powerful by that first.... For Kouta's advice to Sougo there, it's true that, they're your friends, not your tools. They're individuals who are allowed to act on their own and not be controlled to your own wishes even if it's well-meaning (doesn't mean they're allowed to be given free pass when they're wrong). That'd be potentially using those as pawns in worst case scenario. Ironically, Kouta's advice here would be an anti-Micchy approach, of which Kouta constantly being lenient to him due to their childhood relation thus he won't view Micchy this way, as someone who doesn't view his "friends" as people, but rather an emotional satisfaction and extension of himself, ignoring his friends' thoughts and feelings and forcing his views and methods on them, and would discard those who aren't going along.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

The Time Jackers are trying to recruit Geiz, and this shot really encapsulates the dilemma Geiz is in. The composition is super symmetrical, with Geiz as the central, slightly-out-of-place component. It really sells their strategy towards him, while letting him not quite fit in. The Time Jacker scheme is smart, in that Geiz could be a valuable asset. Geiz wants the same thing they do: the death of Zi-O. But Geiz sees his manipulation of time as more altruistic than the Time Jackers, even if they?re all screwing around with history. Having Geiz be the central piece of this shot, while being visibly uncomfortable? So smart!

True, there's a tease of Ora following Geiz and it makes sense that the Time Jackers would try to recruit Geiz as both wants to kill Zi-O, though with different goals. This is a parallel to Woz, where he's a villain that worked to help Ohma Zi-O that happens to be the cheerful hero, thus he's creating good outcomes for now by giving Sougo more power to help his desire to save the day. While the Time Jacker planned for a hero, albeit anti-heroic one, to help them in fulfilling his goal, that had similar method to Time Jackers, thus he'd create bad outcome by helping Time Jacker's goals. For screwing around with history, I don't know if that alone is wrong, I'd view Time Jackers as being wrong for not creating better outcome than Ohma Zi-O but reshaping it for their own selfish desires as well as the people who got hurt in their plans like the Armored Riders' victims. Geiz is wrong due to targeting the still-noble Sougo for now, and his black and white mentality to Another Riders is unrelated to him time travelling.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Tsukuyomi is AWESOMELY weird in this episode, which I appreciate. She?d been in Time Mom mode a bit too much over the last few stories, so her getting increasingly stressed-out by Sougo?s perplexing behavior was what I loved about her in Episode 1. These two shots, it?s a nice callback joke within the episode, but I like how each one conveys a slightly different emotion? The first one is suspicious, as she?s starting to realize something?s up, and the second one is her just defeated by how insane things are. I like when the Time Orphans get to be weird, emotional teenagers!

I guess it's more of a weird situation than her acting weird. It'd be odd for both her and Woz that Sougo keeps going and coming back with him making statements that are different from his current occupation. And that there's a new consequence too for now that Sougo getting Gaim Arms isn't something that is recorded on Woz's book yet (he's a prophet). Though both Sougos here know Tsukuyomi well and trusts her to help them going on both of their respective mission. Her being exasperated about insane things is the opposite of being weird... she's taking the sane (wo)man role here, actually that's a voice of reason role still. And the part of her getting Sougo into a fight to test... it's not recognized as quirky part of her or such by others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

I like when Geiz gets to meet other taciturn anti-hero secondaries, because they can instantly see through his bullshit. Geiz is trying to do his grim executioner thing around Kaito, and Kaito?s immediately like Naw You?re Just Mad ?Cause Your Friend Was Mean To You. Kaito thinks it?s sort of adorable, how this kid is trying to be all pro ice around him. The shots are composited so that Kaito literally doesn?t even have to look at Geiz to read him like a book. And Geiz isn?t even looking at Kaito when he declares his intention to kill Sougo, because he?s trying to convince himself. Great blocking and editing here.

Kaito shows off his social mastery again to correctly evaluate that Geiz has hesitation on his part to do his mission. Like usual he reveals something within person that they deny or even don't realize. Other than that, Geiz is ironically dealing with someone that is a bit similar to Sougo, that while Kaito's an anti-hero for most of the series, at the end, as Lord Baron, he turned into an anti-villain who'd want to improve the world, but is done by destroying the current one. Sougo's a more extreme case on both ends, in the original timeline he was a straight hero (if he was the same in his youth as him now) that turned into straight villain, even irredeemable one.

[catwhowalks]

I forgot to post this before going to work, so here we are.

I've been looking forward to this when I started it. These, especially their other Kamen Rider English cover, are kinda what got me to do this whole bit. They are fantastic.

[Androzani84]

One thing I forgot to mention is that I love how Woz finally gives the Uncle a clock to repair… and he goes into the usual spiel about how he only repairs clocks.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Since you brought up God Kouta's fashion sense, I want to mention that I like his new casual white outfit. It looks a lot more practical than the Kiwami armor he was wearing before.

It sorta matches Mai's outfit now, which I prefer. They finally both look like they're in the same Final Fantasy cosplay group!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

But Sougo states Woz as a nice guy against Junichiro. You're right he can'r see the bad in people and that one is blind, or him acting stupid.

I think some of it's also Sougo's belief in his own morality. Sougo doesn't think he'll become Oma Zi-O due to his own innate sense of right and wrong, or the influence of the Time Orphans, or whatever. So when Woz shows up to get Sougo to embrace his power and become a Despot, Sougo just adds a Good prefix onto that title automatically. Every Woz that, to us, plays as Woz Is Trying To Build A Time Tyrant, to Sougo just plays as A Fan Is Giving Me Solid Advice. It's not so much Sougo ignoring or misunderstanding Woz'z motivations or goals, it's Sougo viewing any assistance as a stepping stone to being a Gooder Despot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

I guess it's more of a weird situation than her acting weird.

It can be both! The situation is increasingly inexplicable, sure, but she's getting sort of manic and testy about it. She's not confused, at a certain point; she's angry. It's really fun!

Quote:

Originally Posted by catwhowalks

I forgot to post this before going to work, so here we are.

I've been looking forward to this when I started it. These, especially their other Kamen Rider English cover, are kinda what got me to do this whole bit. They are fantastic.

Worth the wait! Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androzani84

One thing I forgot to mention is that I love how Woz finally gives the Uncle a clock to repair? and he goes into the usual spiel about how he only repairs clocks.

It's such a good gag! The delivery on that joke is so perfect, because it takes forever to finally land on the Like This punchline. Uncle's got some impeccable comedic timing.

[Daikaijuman54]

Wow, looking at these images, I forgot how gorgeous the cinematography is.

This episode is all about visuals! And Gaim Armor is visually and aesthetically appealing. It comes in just like the Fruit Armors from Gaim, zipper and everything, it's got multiple "arms" resembling sliced fruit, and Sougo, continuing to butcher his Senpais catchphrases, goes full Kabuki. I also love how, thinking back on it, Another Gaim could probably double as an Overlord Gaim.

I also think I finished Gaim at this point? But again, I'm not too sure at the moment. But I did kind of like this episode... But then there's the time shenanigans. Nothing wrong, per se, but it's a little off? Maybe they were trying to reference Mai from Gaim, but something just bugs me about how they pull it off. Of course, maybe that's just my brain skewing my perception of it, since it ain't fresh in my mind, and the episode set it up that way, and I'm once again chasing myself into a corner.

Anyway, nice to see the Forest of Helheim again, absolutely nailing the visuals, and Kaito. I didn't forget about Kouta, our favorite Space Fruit God, and the crazy world he appears in when confronting Sougo (wow, someone's an artistic lad). And Woz brought Uncle a clock to fix! The stars have aligned!

Another note, I love the Time Jackers' Time Majins and how they're based off things from previous Rider Shows, not only that but they look pretty darn good, too.

[DreadBringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

It sorta matches Mai's outfit now, which I prefer. They finally both look like they're in the same Final Fantasy cosplay group!

M̶o̶r̶e̶ ̶l̶i̶k̶e̶ ̶M̶a̶i̶'̶s̶ ̶o̶u̶t̶f̶i̶t̶ ̶l̶o̶o̶k̶e̶d̶ ̶m̶o̶r̶e̶ ̶t̶a̶c̶k̶y̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶n̶ ̶K̶o̶u̶t̶a̶'̶s̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶h̶e̶r̶ ̶o̶u̶t̶f̶i̶t̶ ̶b̶e̶t̶t̶e̶r̶ ̶m̶a̶t̶c̶h̶ ̶K̶o̶u̶t̶a̶'̶s̶.̶

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

I think some of it's also Sougo's belief in his own morality. Sougo doesn't think he'll become Oma Zi-O due to his own innate sense of right and wrong, or the influence of the Time Orphans, or whatever. So when Woz shows up to get Sougo to embrace his power and become a Despot, Sougo just adds a Good prefix onto that title automatically. Every Woz that, to us, plays as Woz Is Trying To Build A Time Tyrant, to Sougo just plays as A Fan Is Giving Me Solid Advice. It's not so much Sougo ignoring or misunderstanding Woz'z motivations or goals, it's Sougo viewing any assistance as a stepping stone to being a Gooder Despot.

Nice explanation for what Sougo thinks regarding Woz here. True that Woz's assistance would be a help to Sougo thus he's seen as nice... and Sougo can be oblivious to the surroundings, like how people feel. Other than that what do you think regarding:

Quote:

True, there's a tease of Ora following Geiz and it makes sense that the Time Jackers would try to recruit Geiz as both wants to kill Zi-O, though with different goals. This is a parallel to Woz, where he's a villain that worked to help Ohma Zi-O that happens to be the cheerful hero, thus he's creating good outcomes for now by giving Sougo more power to help his desire to save the day. While the Time Jacker planned for a hero, albeit anti-heroic one, to help them in fulfilling his goal, that had similar method to Time Jackers, thus he'd create bad outcome by helping Time Jacker's goals. For screwing around with history, I don't know if that alone is wrong, I'd view Time Jackers as being wrong for not creating better outcome than Ohma Zi-O but reshaping it for their own selfish desires as well as the people who got hurt in their plans like the Armored Riders' victims. Geiz is wrong due to targeting the still-noble Sougo for now, and his black and white mentality to Another Riders is unrelated to him time travelling.

Quote:

Kaito shows off his social mastery again to correctly evaluate that Geiz has hesitation on his part to do his mission. Like usual he reveals something within person that they deny or even don't realize. Other than that, Geiz is ironically dealing with someone that is a bit similar to Sougo, that while Kaito's an anti-hero for most of the series, at the end, as Lord Baron, he turned into an anti-villain who'd want to improve the world, but is done by destroying the current one. Sougo's a more extreme case on both ends, in the original timeline he was a straight hero (if he was the same in his youth as him now) that turned into straight villain, even irredeemable one.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daikaijuman54

I also think I finished Gaim at this point? But again, I'm not too sure at the moment. But I did kind of like this episode... But then there's the time shenanigans. Nothing wrong, per se, but it's a little off? Maybe they were trying to reference Mai from Gaim, but something just bugs me about how they pull it off. Of course, maybe that's just my brain skewing my perception of it, since it ain't fresh in my mind, and the episode set it up that way, and I'm once again chasing myself into a corner.

Well, an absolutely confusing opening sequence that promises an event that the show has no idea how to eventually deliver would be a very apt Gaim tribute!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

For screwing around with history, I don't know if that alone is wrong, I'd view Time Jackers as being wrong for not creating better outcome than Ohma Zi-O but reshaping it for their own selfish desires as well as the people who got hurt in their plans like the Armored Riders' victims.

I mean, we don't know if Another Gaim (for example) is going to work out better for humanity than Oma Zi-O or Sougo The Good Despot (probably not as good for dance crews, maybe), which is sort of Swartz'z point. Changing History has unintended consequences any way you try it, so why is Geiz'z version more heroic than Swartz'z? (Not my view, but it's the Time Jacker argument for moral relativism.)