[Aoi Kurenai]

I feel like Ghost is a very good show. There are rising stakes, characters going through actual inner conflict, and an interesting world with more depth than we usually get. The first quarter of Ghost is absolutely terrible, but it's like it became an entirely different show after Takeru got his Boost form. The show started pacing itself better, taking things more seriously, the comedy wasn't nearly as intrusive as it could have been. Also, Ghost got rid of one of my biggest pet peeves in the franchise yet again, the strict adherence to two parters even when they are justified by the story.

Drive? Now that's a terrible show. Great underlying idea with the Roimude and their end game, but not absolutely lacking in execution, almost to the extent I felt Wizard lacked execution.

This is as someone who has seen every Kamen Rider series to date, Ghost when it's good is one of the better ones, IMO. Ghost is up there with Gaim and Double as my favorite shows of the post-Decade run.

[Kamen Rider Lucha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aoi Kurenai

I feel like Ghost is a very good show. There are rising stakes, characters going through actual inner conflict, and an interesting world with more depth than we usually get. The first quarter of Ghost is absolutely terrible, but it's like it became an entirely different show after Takeru got his Boost form. The show started pacing itself better, taking things more seriously, the comedy wasn't nearly as intrusive as it could have been. Also, Ghost got rid of one of my biggest pet peeves in the franchise yet again, the strict adherence to two parters even when they are justified by the story.

Drive? Now that's a terrible show. Great underlying idea with the Roimude and their end game, but not absolutely lacking in execution, almost to the extent I felt Wizard lacked execution.

This is as someone who has seen every Kamen Rider series to date, Ghost when it's good is one of the better ones, IMO. Ghost is up there with Gaim and Double as my favorite shows of the post-Decade run.

This means a lot coming from you! Looks like I need to buck up and get serious about Ghost again. I left off at episode 12, and liked it well enough, but its lack of specialness made it hard to get really invested.

I couldn't agree more with your assessment of Drive.

[Guyver Spawn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blade Fang

Drive is quite boring in first nine episodes, episode 14-17, and episode 23-24.
But Drive become more interesting when the story involve Roidmude 001, Nira, and Gold Drive....

That's what I don't like about shows like Drive. I think it's bad for a show to take forever to be good. It's bad story telling if your show does not get good until 20 or 30 episodes into the story. I think your show should always be good from the very start. First impressions always help because you want to suck your viewers into the world that you created and want to make them check out more as the show goes on. Not every first episode is going to be good or great, but it should be decent enough to have your viewers tune in.

Otherwise, the viewers are wasting their time going up to episode 20 or 35 just to get good. It's like saying "Don't drop Bleach because the show gets so much better at episode 58!!". I don't plan on finishing Drive because I give up on the show after Mach show up. I give the show more than one chance and I still did not like it. Drive is the rider show that I drop since Kiva. Ghost is just as bad with boring villains, boring supporting cast of characters and a boring main rider. I drop Ghost after episode 10 and I don't plan on watching more.

[Leo Novum]

I like Ghost but only because of the plot. Unlike Drive, it started off with a clear goal in mind and it kept to it. The only other series that comes to mind is Gaim but that's miles ahead of Ghost in terms of writing.

However and that's a big however, all the characters in Ghost save for Necrom and Akari are too flat. Takeru is the generic lead, Makoto is his rival, Onari is juvenile screaming comic relief. Kanon, Shibuya and Narita are human furniture.

And the show relies too much on gimmicks. Gaim and Double had the right idea to limit the gimmicks. And they didn't even go on gimmick hunts. Gaim naturally had gimmicks written into the plot while Double started off with nearly all of them in place. Tone down the gimmicks in the next series, Toei. I know you make most of your revenue from the toys but there has to be a limit on how low you would stoop.

And thirdly, the cast is too bloated. Too many characters slow the plot down. If the need of many characters is felt, make sure not to put too many of them in a room together. The less characters there are, the more meaningful dialogue there can be and the more fluidly the plot will flow.

[KyoryuGreen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guyver Spawn

I do agree that the generic rival secondary rider has been getting old for a while now. It also gets boring when they end up becoming friends at the end. With Baron, he became the final villain which was pretty new if you ask me.

Blade did it better. Gaim was just Ryuki, Faiz, and Blade in a blender together.

[OptionZero]

The irony of vinish starting a thread about bad writing is glorious


Dude your posting is terrible, like its post in a different language and then run through five different translations before arriving in English


But yeah ghosts writing sucks

[KyoryuGreen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeoRangerV

Well I can certainly see your argument some of your points (especially Marika), but there's a couple of things I disagree with.

How you feel is one thing, but he was definitely never the "true" villain nor was he ever meant to be. Gaim is a story about humans first and foremost, more specially about the temptation of ultimate power and how said power corrupts. This is present in almost everything Gen Urobuchi writes - Madoka, Psycho-Pass, Gargantia, Aldnoah.Zero...I could go on. Gaim even had the imagery to enforce it all the more. Sagara/Helheim isn't inherently evil, it simply serves a purpose, its what humans choose to do with the power that causes disaster. Whether its Kaito, Ryouma, Yggdrasil, the Inves (who were also humans once), the result is the same.

His motivations were clear as day from the very first episode. His character never changed.

As I said above, Kaito made his intentions clear right from the very beginning. Yes Micchy went off the deep end, but he was also highly unstable and constantly being manipulated. No-one manipulated Kaito, he used people to his own ends and knew exactly what he wanted.

The guy discarded his humanity for the sake of his cause, that's about as symbolic of being at the point of no return as you can get.

Well as I have had this debate like a month or two ago I am always prepared for this. Well I have only seen three and half things by Gen Urobuchi and only ones that I liked the most was Expelled from Paradise and his character from Chaos Dragon was intriguing. If all his stories are about how power corrupts isn't that a little cliché? Thus only helping my argument that Gaim has writing issues lol. See everyone always brings up the temptation aspect with Sagara yet he only gave the power ups to Kouta, because if he gave it to any of the other 3, they would have killed him realizing that he was the mastermind behind it all. Continuing the writing problems they never go into why Sagara did this and if he is neutral than who gave him the power to do this? Also Kaito did change he was starting to work with the others and become this leader. When he got cut stupidly that's when he started to go off the deep end and now I can believe that the Invess power made him go mad; which is fine but leads to why didn't Kouta try and save him them if he was driven mad? Yes Micchy was unstable but if Kouta wasn't an idiot he could tried to save his friend sooner. Continuing that Sagara is the main villain argument if you remove him from the equation the entire show doesn't happen because there is no Invess Forest, there is no Lockseeds, there is no Kamen Rider. Sagara gives the power to the Invess which then leads to the forest. Now see I am not saying Sagara is evil but I am saying he is the villain or main antagonist.

[EpsilonX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guyver Spawn

That's what I don't like about shows like Drive. I think it's bad for a show to take forever to be good. It's bad story telling if your show does not get good until 20 or 30 episodes into the story. I think your show should always be good from the very start. First impressions always help because you want to suck your viewers into the world that you created and want to make them check out more as the show goes on. Not every first episode is going to be good or great, but it should be decent enough to have your viewers tune in.

Most people think Breaking Bad's first season sucks, but after that it's one of the best tv shows I've ever seen. Sure, it'd be nice if the first 6 episodes were better (I liked them though) but in some cases it's absolutely worth pushing through the beginning. 6 45-minute episodes that aren't spectacular vs 4 seasons of absolutely amazing episodes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo Novum

I like Ghost but only because of the plot. Unlike Drive, it started off with a clear goal in mind and it kept to it. The only other series that comes to mind is Gaim but that's miles ahead of Ghost in terms of writing.

That's one of the things I really like about Ghost, it has direction in its plot

Quote:

And the show relies too much on gimmicks. Gaim and Double had the right idea to limit the gimmicks. And they didn't even go on gimmick hunts. Gaim naturally had gimmicks written into the plot while Double started off with nearly all of them in place. Tone down the gimmicks in the next series, Toei. I know you make most of your revenue from the toys but there has to be a limit on how low you would stoop.

Once again, maybe this might be because I'm not too familiar with Heisei Riders, but I really enjoyed the eyecon hunt in the first 10 episodes. It felt like early episodes of Dragon Ball, where they went on an adventure collecting things that gave them a wish. Combine that with the main cast solving paranormal cases and you definitely have my attention.

[Guyver Spawn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeoRangerV

I didn't realise people needed a reason to wear clothes.

I think he is talking about the cliche anti-hero characters that are common in fiction. They always wear edgy looking things like black leather jackets and have the "I don't care about anyone else besides me" attitude. I feel like we have too many secondary riders that are anti-heroes. More riders similar to Birth would be nice.

[ZeoRangerV]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guyver Spawn

I think he is talking about the cliche anti-hero characters that are common in fiction. They always wear edgy looking things like black leather jackets and have the "I don't care about anyone else besides me" attitude. I feel like we have too many secondary riders that are anti-heroes. More riders similar to Birth would be nice.

You still don't need a reason to wear a leather jacket. It isn't even like Chase and Makoto have remotely similar jackets.

Besides, the show is called Kamen RIDER. It shouldn't seem that unbelievable that multiple characters are going to wear biker jackets, even if riding motorcycles has become something of a foreign concept.