[Switchblade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GodSpeedLove

Although I am glad to see Date back, the whole thing happens so fast that I'm not sure why they even had him leave in the first place. Also, missed opportunity to have Satonaka don the new Birth suit! It makes me feel like they literally wrote a written-off character back into the show just to make sure Satonaka stays in the support role. Sad!

Probably for the best. This is pre-Wizard; if they'd made Satonaka a Rider she would have most likely ended up dead.

[Kamen Rider Die]

KAMEN RIDER OOO EPISODE 48 - “MEDALS FOR TOMORROW, UNDERWEAR, AND ARMS TO REACH OUT WITH”



Just a perfect ending, despite the various imperfect parts.

(Those imperfect parts: I don’t think the Uva/Maki/ApOOOcalypse stuff has any fun moves on it, that’s the main one. It’s a very Might As Well ending for both of them, but it does exactly what you need it do for the main story and Maki’s arc, so it’s not really a big complaint. Also, the attack of the Pseudo-Yummies on the city is fine to give the Births and Satonaka something to do, but it’s really just giving them something to do. Could’ve cut all that without losing much of anything.)

It’s a very sweet and sad ending for Ankh, which is what needed to happen for this finale to work. It’d be hard to argue that this isn’t a season about Ankh, first and foremost; even Eiji’s story here is about how Ankh has helped him change and grow. Letting Ankh sacrifice the life that he was after to help his friend, because it only became that life through his friendship, that’s as poignant and poetic an ending as you can get, even before we start talking about hands reaching out and all that. Ankh–

So, I’ve been writing this for about half an hour, and I’ve probably rewritten the first two paragraphs about three times each. That’s not typical for me! I usually just write down whatever I’m thinking, and then proof it during the post. But with this one… I don’t know, at a loss for words? I like it, for sure. I probably even love it. But I don’t know how to talk about it?

It’s just, like, the perfect ending; the end, whole though, full review. Talking about why it works as an ending is just: see the write-ups for the previous 47 episodes. Nothing here is a huge shock or a startling turn. Ankh’s motivation, while rarely stated by him in ways that aren’t moody and antagonistic, is still pretty goddamn clear. Eiji’s series-long inability to accept help and let others share his burden is another huge story point over a half-dozen individual stories, if not the background noise of the entire series. Those arcs conclude here in smart ways, but also in the only ways they could end – the precision of this series wouldn’t allow for, like, the Neo-Greeed of 2032 to show up as a stinger. Ankh has to give up the life he wanted, and in doing so have finally lived a life; Eiji has to let his friends reach out to him, and in doing so have the strength to reach back. That’s it. That’s the only ending possible. The mechanics of that can be fun and even thrilling (Eiji’s scheme with the Cell Medals is very clever!), but that sort of stuff is the final dab of paint on a canvas that’s been drying for the last two episodes. It’s a nice addition, but the story was already locked in.

And that makes this all so hard to talk about at the finish line. Parenthetical second paragraph aside, there’s really nothing to talk about here that wouldn’t just be talking about the entire series as a whole. This is the way the story had to end, and then it did. It’s great for that. It’s beautiful for that. But it’s also turned this show into one complete story, like Maki would’ve wanted, and that leaves only reflection, not analysis.

I did like this one a lot, though. Really good final episode.

[Switchblade]

My favorite part of the finale is that we finally get an on-screen cameo from one of the real behind the scenes stars of Kamen Rider OOO:

Hiroaki Iwanaga's bunny hat:



It looks like a lot of the images are lost, but there were a lot of pictures back in the day of the cast and guest stars wearing this hat. All I could still find were a few that hadn't been deleted from an old livejournal account: https://sparkywolf.livejournal.com/10090.html. There used to be a lot more, though, and they were delightful. I always loved that they managed to slip the hat onto the set for the finale.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

It looks like a lot of the images are lost, but there were a lot of pictures back in the day of the cast and guest stars wearing this hat. All I could still find were a few that hadn't been deleted from an old livejournal account: https://sparkywolf.livejournal.com/10090.html. There used to be a lot more, though, and they were delightful. I always loved that they managed to slip the hat onto the set for the finale.

Aww, that is delightful. Thanks for sharing it!

[DreadBringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER OOO EPISODE 48 - “MEDALS FOR TOMORROW, UNDERWEAR, AND ARMS TO REACH OUT WITH”

(Those imperfect parts: I don’t think the Uva/Maki/ApOOOcalypse stuff has any fun moves on it, that’s the main one. It’s a very Might As Well ending for both of them, but it does exactly what you need it do for the main story and Maki’s arc, so it’s not really a big complaint. Also, the attack of the Pseudo-Yummies on the city is fine to give the Births and Satonaka something to do, but it’s really just giving them something to do. Could’ve cut all that without losing much of anything.)

Right, the part where it's debated between which is OOO's final form, PuToTyra or TaJaDor. I mean, would people claim Lv. 2 forms of the Ex-Aid Riders are final forms because they're what finished off the final boss? PuToTyra is the one used for most of the big threats in the final portion of the series, just like the final forms in the other Rider series. Some of the other Rider series uses back to base form trope against the final boss, though OOO is more back to mid-season upgrade instead to have TaJaDor being the one that beat Maki, with OOO also using actual base TaToBa, dual wielding Medajalibur and Medagabryu (the bonus character in Climax Heroes Fourze) against Uva after he kicked PuToTyra's ass before. Maybe the actual power up is, obviously, Eiji absorbing the King's medals due to desiring for power this time, guess similar to the "godhood" of some Riders, like Touma and Ace at the end of their series, making him the true OOO. And using TaJaDor with Purple Medals in Taja Spinner is about Eiji and Ankh's collaboration.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

It’s a very sweet and sad ending for Ankh, which is what needed to happen for this finale to work. It’d be hard to argue that this isn’t a season about Ankh, first and foremost; even Eiji’s story here is about how Ankh has helped him change and grow. Letting Ankh sacrifice the life that he was after to help his friend, because it only became that life through his friendship, that’s as poignant and poetic an ending as you can get, even before we start talking about hands reaching out and all that. Ankh–

So Ankh ended up dying in the series, and it was due to a sacrifice. Sacrifice is something that often made a handful of people put them on pedestal and see them as a saint, excusing anything they do before due to said sacrifice (and complaining if a character which was unlikable to them is given this ending), and dunno if this'd happen to Ankh too. The thing is, the likes of Parado, who was a human murderer, also sacrificed his life, after his redemption. Though both cases of this are them primarily helping the main Rider they made peace with, rather than being a general do-gooder like Eiji. Ankh is also given a redemption equals death end.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

It’s just, like, the perfect ending; the end, whole though, full review. Talking about why it works as an ending is just: see the write-ups for the previous 47 episodes. Nothing here is a huge shock or a startling turn. Ankh’s motivation, while rarely stated by him in ways that aren’t moody and antagonistic, is still pretty goddamn clear. Eiji’s series-long inability to accept help and let others share his burden is another huge story point over a half-dozen individual stories, if not the background noise of the entire series. Those arcs conclude here in smart ways, but also in the only ways they could end – the precision of this series wouldn’t allow for, like, the Neo-Greeed of 2032 to show up as a stinger. Ankh has to give up the life he wanted, and in doing so have finally lived a life; Eiji has to let his friends reach out to him, and in doing so have the strength to reach back. That’s it. That’s the only ending possible. The mechanics of that can be fun and even thrilling (Eiji’s scheme with the Cell Medals is very clever!), but that sort of stuff is the final dab of paint on a canvas that’s been drying for the last two episodes. It’s a nice addition, but the story was already locked in.

Would the Births and Satonaka attacking Pseudo-Yummies also a part of Eiji's friends reaching out to him? Where obviously they're helping Eiji by distracting them so Eiji and Ankh can focus on the vessel, and as Birth, Goto also helps Eiji land safely. Otherwise, feels that, with the episode also still commenting on Eiji being reckless to absorb this much power, what's solved for Eiji isn't about him lacking desire, but about his self-destructive tendencies, where yes, he now shares his burden with others, or it can just feel that the others obviously would go to help Eiji by themselves, with Eiji still telling Date and Goto to get to safety as if they're civilians at early episode. Self-destructive traits are bad, but not having something you want for yourself is still the better way. Though as Eiji ending up living, at the cost of Ankh's sacrifice, probably still won't convince those who think one should sacrifice themselves to achieve an ultimate good, not like Eiji wouldn't do it if it's what's needed, like Kenzaki to save both the world and Hajime.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

Right, the part where it's debated between which is OOO's final form, PuToTyra or TaJaDor. I mean, would people claim Lv. 2 forms of the Ex-Aid Riders are final forms because they're what finished off the final boss?

I'm gonna say neither? I'll talk about this more tonight, but a big structural thing in the storytelling of OOO is circles, or loops, or an ouroboros (all them Os!), so I'm going on record as saying that the final form for OOO is actually TaToBa, same as it was for King OOO.

[Sh Ranger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

By this, I don't know how to differentiate between the complaint actually still being able to stand up to said debate or challenge, or if one is just being a contrarian, too stubborn to accept loss, too biased to be objective, just wanting to win the debate, grasping on straws to fight the losing battles with those defenses. Obviously, the latter means anything coming from that person's mouth is just invalid, and often the solution others give is just to never engage in debates or just leave things be, practicing the art of not giving a fuck.

I've already disengaged with a certain user in weekly Rider threads due to not wanting to tolerate the latter, but I would still encourage debates with honest users who are willing to take opponents seriously and make some concessions. Giving up on debates isn't a solution, that's just giving up. It's important to consider the credibility of past arguments to determine whether a debate is likely to be constructive, or if it would be better to talk to a wall instead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

So it doesn't take something like the Stomachs from Gavv who already have massive bodycounts including the main Riders' loved ones (of which the fandom generally seems to agree that they're the worst people ever, even more than Banno) to be unsympathetic to you. I thought, except for perhaps Kazari, the Greeeds, other than Maki, are the type who people won't feel that they crossed the lines too much to be beyond redemption or adding sympathetic traits (without those feeling offensive to them). Their villainy are rather like the type such as Jabel or the Dark Sisters, the type whose redemption wouldn't be complained about by the fanbase - with also like what you said above about being someone's hero, the likes of Mezool and Gamel can seem to fit as the heroes for the group, with Gamel being the hero to Mezool (something that people can use to justify a villain as just a good guy in another perspective). Being unsympathetic for many people can be those who they feel are too evil to get one, but I guess for you it can be also about being generic doomsday type.

Well, I did only say mostly unsympathetic, as they do have tragic moments. Gamel being the main example and what happened to Uva at the end isn't something I'd wish on any villain, which makes Dr. Maki more despicable. None of them are comparable to Ankh though, y'know? Weird how my favorite OOO Combos are like inversely proportional to my opinions on the corresponding Greeeds. Dr. Maki and Kazari are terrible people and Mezool is little better, but their Medals are cool as hell.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

Yes, but I also always thought of it as just being white, and I'm pretty sure that's the impression they were aiming for? Calling it a pearlescent white or something might be more accurate? I tried to go check some official sources real quick, and rather helpfully, the Zukan website's page for PuToTyra -- despite being plastered with photos where the undersuit looks pretty silvery -- also has the same specs that would've been on the show's own site all the way back in the day, where the bit about the undersuit explicitly says the color has changed to a "shining white". So we definitely aren't just crazy!

Interesting. The silver looks okay as well, but I guess the shining white makes more sense to represent the blankness of Eiji as a vessel for the Purple Medals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androzani84

So we?re at the point where Eiji becomes a Dinosaur Greeed. Which despite what you might think, wasn?t set in stone from the start, as producer Naomi Takebe had cold feet about implementing the idea. There was also the fact the identity of the dinosaur Greeed was also constantly changing, from a new character, to Hina (which would?ve been the explanation for her super strength) to Date (after his planned death and resurrection), before they went with Maki.

Got to wonder how the idea of Hina being the dinosaur Greeed would've worked, considering how her big bro Shingo is totally human. It's much more bad*ss that Hina's super strength is just a Hina thing though. A supernatural explanation would've ruined that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

Actually expressing some affection for the cast, though he still refers to Eiji as an idiot.

Of course, Ankh wouldn't be a tsundere anymore if he stopped insulting Eiji.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER OOO EPISODE 48 - ?MEDALS FOR TOMORROW, UNDERWEAR, AND ARMS TO REACH OUT WITH?

It?s a very sweet and sad ending for Ankh, which is what needed to happen for this finale to work. It?d be hard to argue that this isn?t a season about Ankh, first and foremost; even Eiji?s story here is about how Ankh has helped him change and grow. Letting Ankh sacrifice the life that he was after to help his friend, because it only became that life through his friendship, that?s as poignant and poetic an ending as you can get, even before we start talking about hands reaching out and all that. Ankh?

In his own profound words, Ankh's hand isn't the one Eiji needs to reach out to anymore. Ankh has already been saved by Eiji through his sincere acts of kindness, that allowed Ankh to finally realize what he was missing all along, a void that the Medals alone couldn't fill. It's not even Ankh suddenly becoming selfless or anything, he wants to repay the favor to Eiji, since it's Eiji and he can no longer deny that he cares about him. Ankh sacrifices himself in the name of his desire, one that actually makes him complete.

There's some behind the scenes stuff here as well, with Kobayashi apparently wanting an ending with Eiji dying instead, but that got an executive veto, like her scrapped ending for Ryuki with all Riders dying. Makes me wonder if she might've had a similar idea for Den-O's Imagins when they were fading away, but they're way too popular for an ending like that as they're needed for future crossovers. For OOO though, I think the ending we got works good enough and the image of the cracked Taka Medal has become a symbol of Eiji's and Ankh's tragic unbreakable connection, like the bench for Kenzaki and Hajime.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

Right, the part where it's debated between which is OOO's final form, PuToTyra or TaJaDor. I mean, would people claim Lv. 2 forms of the Ex-Aid Riders are final forms because they're what finished off the final boss? PuToTyra is the one used for most of the big threats in the final portion of the series, just like the final forms in the other Rider series. Some of the other Rider series uses back to base form trope against the final boss, though OOO is more back to mid-season upgrade instead to have TaJaDor being the one that beat Maki, with OOO also using actual base TaToBa, dual wielding Medajalibur and Medagabryu (the bonus character in Climax Heroes Fourze) against Uva after he kicked PuToTyra's ass before. Maybe the actual power up is, obviously, Eiji absorbing the King's medals due to desiring for power this time, guess similar to the "godhood" of some Riders, like Touma and Ace at the end of their series, making him the true OOO. And using TaJaDor with Purple Medals in Taja Spinner is about Eiji and Ankh's collaboration.

Yeah, feels like there are two examples here of proto-Reiwa finale-exclusive forms, with Tatoba enhanced by King's Medals and Tajadol enhanced by Ankh's personal Taka Medal, the latter probably being the main reason for the dumb Final Form debate. Honestly, if OOO aired in Reiwa, there's no way Putotyra's legitimacy would ever have been disputed.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Of course, Ankh wouldn't be a tsundere anymore if he stopped insulting Eiji.

This is maybe a spoiler, but I don't really plan on rewatching it for this thread, so I don't exactly have a good way to bring it up, but my favorite Ankh moment of all time is that the first thing he says to Eiji in Heisei Generations Final is that he got fat.

[Androzani84]

If you ask me, the whole final form debate comes from TaJaDol being used for the final battle instead of PuToTyra… which requires you to ignore that Kobayashi’s Rider shows don’t have the main Rider use their final form in the last battle (Ryotaro instead used Sword Form, while Shinji spent the final battle in whatever afterlife he believes in). I’d say her Sentai shows are similar (with Shinienger having the final battle conducted out of suit, and TQger debuting a new rainbow form for the final blow), but then I remember Go-Busters.

And speaking of the final battle, it’s appropriate that the final fight has Eiji using the three little bird medals against Maki after his “Bob Marley” outburst last episode.

[Fish Sandwich]

Sure, the Eiji/Ankh stuff is great and all, but maybe the most profound and poignant lesson we can take away from the finale of OOO is how helpful it can be to thoroughly read instruction manuals. I'm not convinced Date even consciously realizes Cutter Wing exists, and if he were still the main Birth, I don't think raw charisma alone would've saved Eiji at the end. Clearly Gotou is the MVP of the whole story.