[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamSword

Speaking of that, recording it was a ton of fun! Lemme know if you ever wanna do any more!

For anyone who isn't already aware, the only reason there's a Let's Watch HGF commentary track is because of DreamSword. He approached me about doing it a couple months ago, he organized everyone's involvement, he handled the recording, and he created the finished MP3. This commentary track literally wouldn't exist without him, so now you know who to blame.

Also, yeah! I had a blast! Thanks!

[DreamSword]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

For anyone who isn't already aware, the only reason there's a Let's Watch HGF commentary track is because of DreamSword. He approached me about doing it a couple months ago, he organized everyone's involvement, he handled the recording, and he created the finished MP3. This commentary track literally wouldn't exist without him, so now you know who to blame.

Also, yeah! I had a blast! Thanks!

Well hey I mean, I felt like the Zi-O thread needed something to help make it special in a way different than the Decade thread, so why not? Plus I like you guys--

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

DreamSword got so mad when I said that Onodera was this movie's Kuuga. So mad!

[Kamen Rider Die]

KAMEN RIDER ZI-O EPISODE 16 - “FOREVER KING 2018”



It’s sort of the only solution, when you come down to it.

Some of it’s just, like, We Have Thirty-Three More Episodes. The solution to Sougo’s dilemma can’t be quitting. I’d totally watch that Geiz series, but it doesn’t feel like a very Toei move. Can you imagine them having a Christmas episode where you lose a Kamen Rider? Preposterous.

But the other part, the better part, is that it’s the logical rebuttal to Episode 15’s lesson in consequences and responsibility: You can’t live your life paralyzed by what could happen in the future. It’s good to have an awareness of potential outcomes, but you can’t let negative outcomes keep you from moving forward.

We spend a lot of time here dealing with the stuff I sort of wished we’d gotten in the opening story. Namely, a Sougo who feels an intense reluctance to use the power of Zi-O, knowing where it might lead. In the first story of this show, Sougo came off like an oblivious jerk, feigning sympathy in the Time Orphans’ hardships, pretty visibly thrilled to become a despot. It was a bizarre choice, and I’m not entirely sure it was the right one, even if this episode concludes that thread with style. Back then, it didn’t feel so much like the show wanted to explain the inconsistencies and illogic of Sougo’s dream, so the show just punted on it until now. There’s a frustrating middle section of this first Act that only really works by ignoring Sougo's motivation, rather than offering up an alternative to Sougo Doesn’t Know What A King Is. It’s a weird delay in the storytelling.

It ends up resolving itself smartly, though. We see Sougo actually try to end Oma Zi-O’s reign, instead of just pinky-swearing that he won’t commit even a single genocide, not even on his birthday. There’s actual weight to his decision, not least of which is losing all of his Time Friends. Sougo’s all alone with his eternal guilt and shame, afraid to even think about what being a king could do to the world.

It’s Geiz who motivates Sougo back into becoming Zi-O. A depowered Sougo is still going to risk his life to help people, and that’s enough to convince Geiz that Oma Zi-O is a risk he’s willing to take. Sougo needs to try to make the future he wants to see, instead of accepting a fate he never wanted. There’re risks to everything, and consequences for any decision you make. To live your life convinced that the worst is going to happen… like, man, even Geiz has more optimism than that. Kid stole a Time Mazine and went back fifty years to be a grim executioner and maybe alter history! It’s okay for Sougo to try and save enough people with Time Powers to maybe be a hero instead of a villain. No one knows what the future really holds; not even people in the future.

This was a great End Of Act 1 episode. It brings back a bunch of little details (Uncle’s story about missing out on a dream becomes a story about dreams never really going away; Sougo still won’t go to college I guess) and puts a pin in some others (Tsukasa taking his honestly-somewhat-tiresome “Wild Card, Bitches” act on the road for a minute; the Time Jackers get trounced) while promising a bunch of weird things to come. It really felt like we’d come full-circle, resolving a big character flaw in Sougo by strengthening his bonds with the rest of the team. (Well, mostly Geiz. Tsukuyomi is in full Time Mom mode this episode.)

A really nice episode. A little bit more contemplative than last time, but still terrifically character-focused. An excellent Christmas present!



—

KAMEN RIDER ZI-O COMPLEMENTATION PROJECT EPISODE 16.5 - “BE FOREVER COMPLEMENTATION PROJECT (PART TWO)”

Final .5 episode! It’s… not a good one!

It’s just Team Zi-O talking around the surprise of Ryotaro being in the just-released Heisei Generations Forever movie. It’s interesting to hear the lengths the production team went to in order to hide Ryotaro’s return (a fake scene for the Advance Screening!), but it’s just some fun trivia. I like these shorts better when they’re completely insane, which this one really wasn’t. (The concept of Toei Hitmen is a fun note, though.) It’s informative, which isn’t really what I like best for these .5 episodes.

There’s also no Legend Rider guest-star, because they are still trying to keep Ryotaro’s presence in the movie a surprise. It’d be weird if he showed up here to goof around! So it’s just Team Zi-O, providing fun trivia, the end.

Pretty fun series of short films, though. I will miss them!

[FreshToku]

Okay, but imagine if the title character of one of these shows really did just leave half-way through.

Anyhow, this episode was such a great way to top of 2018 for me (I didn't do much other than watch toku then, okay?). This whole two-parter is what completely reignited my investment in this story, after I had settled into just expecting this show to be nothing but half-hearted tributes to other shows. I'm all here for Sougo and his story about fighting his terrible destiny. It doesn't like, retroactively make me think the first 14 episodes are greater than they are or anything, but it does make me appreciate having spent the time with the show anyway.

The scene where Geiz convinces Sougo to take the driver is just iconic. Or at least I think it should be considered an all-time great! Technically speaking, the status quo is actually not that different. Sougo wants to be a king, and Geiz says he's ready to take him down if it goes bad. I love that with this episode though, both characters now have a completely new, stronger resolve behind them. Not only is Sougo choosing to commit to his dream no matter how much he fears the future and how much the whole world is telling him it's a bad decision, he'll do it because he's putting his trust in Geiz to stop him. It's so good...

Oh, and the scene right after? With Sougo transforming into Zi-O, with Woz's most grand declaration yet and accompanied by Toki no Oja kicking in? I'm one-hundred percent serious and not exaggerating when I say that This is my favourite implementation of an insert song across this franchise. It's perfect, and the song itself is perfect for the context. Not a blood-pumping action song for a new form debut, but a more low-key, almost melancholic melody for our hero being 'reborn' as Woz puts it, starting over from scratch but with a new resolve.

The Decade Armour using the Ex-Aid watch to turn into Mighty Brothers XX is really fun too. I wouldn't have mind a few more seconds of them beating up Decade!

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshToku

It doesn't like, retroactively make me think the first 14 episodes are greater than they are or anything, but it does make me appreciate having spent the time with the show anyway.

It's really a case where the destination was maybe more valuable than the journey, which is such a perfect inversion of Decade's themes that I sort of wish I could believe it was intentional.

But, yeah, it's easy to be a little wistful about how hard the show worked to get us to this really good place, even if I'm not aching to rewatch Episode 1 any time soon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshToku

The scene where Geiz convinces Sougo to take the driver is just iconic. Or at least I think it should be considered an all-time great! Technically speaking, the status quo is actually not that different. Sougo wants to be a king, and Geiz says he's ready to take him down if it goes bad. I love that with this episode though, both characters now have a completely new, stronger resolve behind them. Not only is Sougo choosing to commit to his dream no matter how much he fears the future and how much the whole world is telling him it's a bad decision, he'll do it because he's putting his trust in Geiz to stop him. It's so good...

It does a really great job of reframing the whole Geiz/Sougo dynamic, where the goofy optimism and grim determination is sort of flipped around; where Sougo's vow to be a good king is some terrible burden, and Geiz'z vow to kill Sougo if Sougo goes bad is the limitless support of a good friend. Fun twist on the opening characterizations!

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshToku

The Decade Armour using the Ex-Aid watch to turn into Mighty Brothers XX is really fun too. I wouldn't have mind a few more seconds of them beating up Decade!

I'm sorry, Mighty Brothers -- the best ever power-up form -- is only for me to enjoy. Like Tid in HGF, only I'm allowed to smile at that. Please enjoy a different Ride Armor, thank you.

[Enchilada645]

I love the little bits of stuff we get from Oma Zi-O here, like he's clearly aware that he's made some kind of impact on Sougo. And he's just like "Let's see how this plays out" in a sense. It's subtle, very subtle I feel, but nice.

Also I did enjoy this episode of Sougo giving up his dream, I feel like maybe it could've lasted a bit longer? (Granted that's what I'm currently doing for my Fanfic) But that's a minor complaint on my end.

Also it was just nice to see the sort of growth in fighting these past four episodes. Where Sougo and Geiz aren't exactly doing the best against Decade, but eventually (Sougo mostly) manage to actually beat Decade up a bit.

Anyway, next time... next time we get into Q2 and what an interesting Q2 it is... where the BGM Swaps get a lot more inspired (and sometimes bad) because we're not in usual territory as the preview will show us.

The Preview BGM this time for the first one gives us the second character insert we'll hear in the series. Also because of the nature of Q2, expect this song to be in like 90% of the BGM Swaps from here on out. The second choice for the BGM uh... I'll be honest I'm not sure where it's from? Given it's crusty quality I can only assume one place but um, please someone help me out on this one? The last BGM Swap is from a certain colorful ninja series where they don't hide.

Zero's Legend Episode Previews Corner - EP 17 Preview:

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enchilada645

I love the little bits of stuff we get from Oma Zi-O here, like he's clearly aware that he's made some kind of impact on Sougo. And he's just like "Let's see how this plays out" in a sense. It's subtle, very subtle I feel, but nice.

Regardless of his actual era, he's a Heisei villain: he's collecting data!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enchilada645

Where Sougo and Geiz aren't exactly doing the best against Decade, but eventually (Sougo mostly) manage to actually beat Decade up a bit.

It definitely helped Team Zi-O that Decade used the Shrug Emoji Attack Ride when he did. He could not have cared less about that fight! Boy, I'm a pretty big Decade fan/apologist, but Tsukasa's inclusion and usage here was so thinly-written and purposeless that I was actually happier to see him leave than I'd've ever thought.

[cosmicrescend0]

Episode 16, just in time!

-I'm having trouble saying why I really enjoy this episode other than saying "that was nice!" over and over. But I'll do my best!

-The Bromance Pit! It's here! One of my favorite scenes in all of Zi-O! Geiz and Sougo having a bit of a heart-to-heart in the way only Riders can: by smacking each other around a bit, perferably in or near water! It's a very nice scene, declaring their beliefs and trust in one another so passionately.

-Sougo not having a real reason for wanting to be a King (other than Weird Dream Man says I should be one to save people) kinda puts a damper on the Sougo stuff this episode, but the rest? With Sougo coming to terms of Oma-Zi-O's true terror, the weighty presence (or I guess the lack of presence, lol?) of Tsukuyomi and Geiz's absence, his fear of the future, his conviction to change the future....it's all really solid for me. I think this episode is where in my inital watching that I jumped on the "this Sougo kid's pretty alright!" train.

-Woz is just really fun in this episode. Him coming down on a ladder into the Bromance Pit to IWAE, arriving with a fresh-out-of-the-box Driver for Sougo, his satsifed smirk as things are set in motion....it's not much but it's always just a delight to see him have a bit more presence.

-With the end of Episode 16, we've offically finished Zi-O's first major arc! I overall remember not having much enjoyment of this beginning part on my first watch, it being a bit too weak and even sloppy in places. Now.....I wouldn't say that I suddenly see this first arc as this hidden gem, the issues I saw during my inital watch are still pretty much there. But like, I feel I have a much better grip on Sougo(something that really hindered my first watch), and much better apperication for these early episodes and what they were trying to do, yknow? This episode just really works as both a solid conclusion to the events so far, and a new beginning for the story to start off of.

(Man, it sucks to see the .5 episodes go. I really wish we got them at least until the 30-40s or something, they're so fun and occasionally informative.)

[Androzani84]

This is an episode pair I don’t have much to say about. So I’ll again let TV Tropes’ entry for Zi-O under “Wham Episode” do it for me.

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#15 demonstrates The Un-Twist in splendid fashion. The show up to that point has had Sougo fervently disbelieve that he could ever become Oma Zi-O, and he's so different from his future counterpart that Geiz, Tsukuyomi, and even much of the audience expected it to be revealed that he'd been framed, especially after Ex-Aid and Build both had premise-shattering reveals at this point of their respective runs. Instead, the twist is that there is no twist, as Sougo is at last forced to confront the horrifying reality that he truly is Oma Zi-O.

[DreadBringer]

Can't watch Heisei Generations yet, so moving on here first.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER ZI-O EPISODE 16 - ?FOREVER KING 2018?

We spend a lot of time here dealing with the stuff I sort of wished we?d gotten in the opening story. Namely, a Sougo who feels an intense reluctance to use the power of Zi-O, knowing where it might lead. In the first story of this show, Sougo came off like an oblivious jerk, feigning sympathy in the Time Orphans? hardships, pretty visibly thrilled to become a despot. It was a bizarre choice, and I?m not entirely sure it was the right one, even if this episode concludes that thread with style. Back then, it didn?t feel so much like the show wanted to explain the inconsistencies and illogic of Sougo?s dream, so the show just punted on it until now. There?s a frustrating middle section of this first Act that only really works by ignoring Sougo's motivation, rather than offering up an alternative to Sougo Doesn?t Know What A King Is. It?s a weird delay in the storytelling.

I guess this is a case of Better Late Than Never. Probably this was really done due to how Sougo can be irritating with his dismissive attitude towards the idea of the damage he could cause as Ohma Zi-O, brushing off the fact that he could become a horrible mass-murdering tyrant because he could become a king, and I did talk before about how Sougo had the worst, quite destructive form of optimism (not that optimism is bad or weakening), the oblivious one (for others, while in reverse of stereotype, Geiz is the gullible one due to his mentality), thus the series gave him a reality check in the form of seeing first hand the dystopian world under Ohma Zi-O's rule in the future. But other than that, is it not a delay in storytelling but just a character flaw that had to be worked on? Sougo may be a sweet boy but doesn't mean that kind of people doesn't have flaw of which Sougo's is optimism like you said (obliviousness). Many character flaws are something that delayed the storytelling, like Tachibana-san being dumpster fire or Makoto being highly stubborn that can make things harder overall for others. Sougo may have more annoying kind of flaw but is similar?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

It ends up resolving itself smartly, though. We see Sougo actually try to end Oma Zi-O?s reign, instead of just pinky-swearing that he won?t commit even a single genocide, not even on his birthday. There?s actual weight to his decision, not least of which is losing all of his Time Friends. Sougo?s all alone with his eternal guilt and shame, afraid to even think about what being a king could do to the world.

Sougo really changed in this episode as now he had a quite brutal reality check. Like he's usually disturbingly upbeat, but now he wanders around in apathy, musing on what he is going to do with his life by then. But actually, you're wrong on how previously the solution is about denying that the belt exists. Sougo actually destroyed his Ziku Belt here of which actually did erase Ohma Zi-O from existence and shut down the Kasshin and Dai Mazines by this as their lords are no more. Of which there's still Time Jackers and Tsukasa to wreck shit of course (though now Tsukasa disappoints Ora in his wild card tendencies, and Tsukasa's own disappointment in Sougo's earlier decision). And the reason why throwing away the belt is harder than it sounds is not due to prolonged decision, but it's due to Woz. He'd always have a spare Driver to replace the one that is broken, as if the belt has a case of a Groundhog Day (destroy it, Woz has one, destroy it again, Woz has another, and so on). So Woz technically is the other shit-stirrer too here to make sure the tyrant comes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

It?s Geiz who motivates Sougo back into becoming Zi-O. A depowered Sougo is still going to risk his life to help people, and that?s enough to convince Geiz that Oma Zi-O is a risk he?s willing to take. Sougo needs to try to make the future he wants to see, instead of accepting a fate he never wanted. There?re risks to everything, and consequences for any decision you make. To live your life convinced that the worst is going to happen? like, man, even Geiz has more optimism than that. Kid stole a Time Mazine and went back fifty years to be a grim executioner and maybe alter history! It?s okay for Sougo to try and save enough people with Time Powers to maybe be a hero instead of a villain. No one knows what the future really holds; not even people in the future.

I guess though Sougo can be insensitive with his optimism, this further proves that present Sougo is genuinely noble and well-meaning, provided he knows the issue well enough. He destroyed his belt, prioritized saving the world over king position thus would give up his ambition if it dooms the world instead, and he also protected a kid which'd risk his life that he doesn't have his belt, while declaring he'd not let his subjects get harmed. And now a new dilemma for Sougo is about damned vs damned, but short term vs long term consequence. Using the belt to fight as Zi-O and Ohma Zi-O can still potentially return (with Ohma Zi-O regaining existence), and not using the belt which can lead into both Sougo and likely some other civilians killed (Tsukuyomi's there too for the kid though).

The long term consequence also involves being manipulated by questionable figures, both Woz and Ohma Zi-O himself (who reappeared in the future), of which mostly characters Sougo would choose to deal with short term consequence that he can't ignore something bad happening in front of him, thus he'd still fight as Ohma Zi-O.... as well as other cases of this in KR like in Gaim, Kouta'd still henshin to defend civilians despite Micchy pestering him to throw away the belt as it'd help Yggdrasill's schemes, or Sagara wanting to use him for his own ends. This kind of decision can have those people being deemed as stupid and gullible (those people actually know they're manipulated there but goes along for the benefit), but the opposite case still won't be good either (if they "act smart" for not going along the manipulators), it's in a series that I can't talk about yet.

Geiz was likely a tsundere since ep. 10, but for now, he's probably not a tsundere anymore as he clearly shows his concern and respect to Sougo here, not hiding his affection to Sougo anymore. This part cements Geiz viewing Sougo as a comrade now, or not hiding it anymore. Despite that Woz presents him a new Driver, actually Geiz gives his own Driver for Sougo to use, which'd mean now Geiz trusts Sougo and his dream to become a good despot without succumbing to villainy. Geiz' vow (read: oath) to kill Sougo now is not out of hatred and vengeance, but to stop Sougo living long enough to become a villain, better had Sougo died a hero like Sougo himself prefered. So now Sougo's belief of the Time Orphans stopping him when his path goes astray is a truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

This was a great End Of Act 1 episode. It brings back a bunch of little details (Uncle?s story about missing out on a dream becomes a story about dreams never really going away; Sougo still won?t go to college I guess) and puts a pin in some others (Tsukasa taking his honestly-somewhat-tiresome ?Wild Card, Bitches? act on the road for a minute; the Time Jackers get trounced) while promising a bunch of weird things to come. It really felt like we?d come full-circle, resolving a big character flaw in Sougo by strengthening his bonds with the rest of the team. (Well, mostly Geiz. Tsukuyomi is in full Time Mom mode this episode.)

Likely true mostly Geiz, but both Geiz and Tsukuyomi likely had some reluctance to go back to their time with Sougo also surprised that both are still there. So it should strengthen bonds that Tsukuyomi and even now Geiz doesn't see dealing with Sougo as an obligation (of which if the priority is making sure Ohma Zi-O was never born, they can let Sougo be killed by Kasshin). Geiz's newfound companionship is done with him throwing a street sign to protect Sougo, but Tsukuyomi also shoots Kasshin to protect him and getting herself chased by it (of which Geiz blamed Sougo for this back at ep. 6). The one that had parent role is obviously Junichiro with his dream talk to deal with Sougo's apathy that even if a dream is discarded there can still be happiness of Junichiro not living his dream but still fixing clocks. I guess the equivalent would be Sougo (hopefully) not becoming a king but still be able to preserve happiness for others; his subjects (also it's clearly seen that Junichiro puts the college entrance in the trash).