[GoseiWonder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComicGuy89

Seriously? Gender is a totally different thing from sex. It's not merely about what genitals you have but an in-built psychological thing. Try telling a transgendered person that his or her biology defines his or her gender and see how offended they feel!

Notice that in Ranma 1/2 when he becomes a girl, he is still fundamentally a guy? That's what a female Doctor logically would be, a male in a woman's body and would that be a fair representation of women?

Goodness man, before you ask me to "go home and think" you should think too.

Well, this has gotten deeply philosophical oddly fast. I mean, it was already going philosophical but this is faster than I expected

And it's also getting a tad angry.

[Locke]

The irony is you make the Doctor black or a woman, and they will outcry that you have sold out, using something like gender or skin colour to appear falsely progressive or whatever. You don't do it and you get an outcry of racism, sexism or whatever.

The fact of the matter is, if the Doctor did one day turn out to be black or a woman, I'd be okay with it if they just treat it the same as any other Doctor and don't introduce them as 'the first black Doctor/the first female Doctor', that shouldn't be what it is about.

Still yay Capaldi got it!

[Sentai]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

The irony is you make the Doctor black or a woman, and they will outcry that you have sold out, using something like gender or skin colour to appear falsely progressive or whatever. You don't do it and you get an outcry of racism, sexism or whatever.

The fact of the matter is, if the Doctor did one day turn out to be black or a woman, I'd be okay with it if they just treat it the same as any other Doctor and don't introduce them as 'the first black Doctor/the first female Doctor', that shouldn't be what it is about.

Still yay Capaldi got it!

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoseiWonder

Well, this has gotten deeply philosophical oddly fast. I mean, it was already going philosophical but this is faster than I expected

And it's also getting a tad angry.

These two speak sense.

[ComicGuy89]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

The irony is you make the Doctor black or a woman, and they will outcry that you have sold out, using something like gender or skin colour to appear falsely progressive or whatever. You don't do it and you get an outcry of racism, sexism or whatever.

The fact of the matter is, if the Doctor did one day turn out to be black or a woman, I'd be okay with it if they just treat it the same as any other Doctor and don't introduce them as 'the first black Doctor/the first female Doctor', that shouldn't be what it is about.

Still yay Capaldi got it!

I disagree that changing skin colour is as significant as changing gender. I feel that skin colour is much more of a cultural thing compared to gender.

I do agree that whatever Doctor, I would give the show a try. I just don't trust that most writers can write it well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sentai

These two speak sense.

Sigh...I guess you won't address accusing us of being "a tad sexist" or saying that I think a person's personality changes when he loses his genitals?

[GoseiWonder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

The irony is you make the Doctor black or a woman, and they will outcry that you have sold out, using something like gender or skin colour to appear falsely progressive or whatever. You don't do it and you get an outcry of racism, sexism or whatever.

The fact of the matter is, if the Doctor did one day turn out to be black or a woman, I'd be okay with it if they just treat it the same as any other Doctor and don't introduce them as 'the first black Doctor/the first female Doctor', that shouldn't be what it is about.

Still yay Capaldi got it!

What's to say the past 50 years of the Doctor haven't been just a glimps of his entire existence, right down to his regenerations? It's not like Gallifrey was blown up when the Doctor was born and his first catalogued-by-humans regeneration is his first regeneration ever. Right?

[Sentai]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComicGuy89

I disagree that changing skin colour is as significant as changing gender. I feel that skin colour is much more of a cultural thing compared to gender.

I do agree that whatever Doctor, I would give the show a try. I just don't trust that most writers can write it well.



Sigh...I guess you won't address accusing us of being "a tad sexist" or saying that I think a person's personality changes when he loses his genitals?

I didn't accuse you and Zeo of being sexist. I said the arguement was. I certainly didn't mean it to come off like I was calling you and Zeo that

[ComicGuy89]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sentai

I didn't accuse you and Zeo of being sexist. I said the arguement was. I certainly didn't mean it to come off like I was calling you and Zeo that

Okay, okay I'll trust in your good intentions even if I still disagree. Agree to disagree.

[ZeoRangerV]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComicGuy89

Seriously? Gender is a totally different thing from sex. It's not merely about what genitals you have but an in-built psychological thing. Try telling a transgendered person that his or her biology defines his or her gender and see how offended they feel!

Notice that in Ranma 1/2 when he becomes a girl, he is still fundamentally a guy? That's what a female Doctor logically would be, a male in a woman's body and would that be a fair representation of women?

Goodness man, before you ask me to "go home and think" you should think too.



I've already mentioned that it's not so much a problem with having a female Doctor as changing this Doctor for the sake of it. It could work but you'll need some pretty damn good writers. I see absolutely no precedent in this and I would love for someone to point out examples.

As stated, make a new Time Lord, reboot it, lots of ideas. I just don't think changing this Doctor is particularly easy to do.

EDIT:



Another good point. The female Doctor would be all about her being a woman instead of, you know, being a proper individual with dignity. With good writers they can avoid it but it's very hard to find such writers.

This. All of this.

The Doctor's core mindset is MALE. He was a father, he was a grandfather. If he changes into a woman he's either going to be a male in a female body (so yeah, yay equality?) or become change the character he's been for the last 50 years so much that he isn't the Doctor anymore. The argument isn't sexist, I'm completely FOR strong female lead characters but they should be able to stand in their own ground. I want a Wonder Woman, not a Batgirl to put it simply.

If a fundamentally female character was changed to a male for the sake of shaking things up there would be public outcry, but the fact the opposite is fine and anyone who gets branded sexist who disagrees is just rude and annoying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoseiWonder

What's to say the past 50 years of the Doctor haven't been just a glimps of his entire existence, right down to his regenerations? It's not like Gallifrey was blown up when the Doctor was born and his first catalogued-by-humans regeneration is his first regeneration ever. Right?

There's been more than enough references in the shows run to say all the incarnations we've seen so far are all the Doctors. To add any more regenerations anywhere other than after the established ones would just piss a lot of people off.

[Locke]

Personally, I don't feel the argument is sexist but it does somewhat annoy me that people seem to always concentrate on the wrong thing.

Remember when Idris was cast in Thor? Everyone was okay with that because I mean who the hell believes in the All Father and his gang of merry men these days, right? And I mean Black people are like...a minority or something, right? It's so progressive to cast black people in predominantly white roles.

Now reverse that around, could you imagine the seething hatred of the outcry if you cast a predominantly black character as a white person? Especially if that character who is usually black, that you now portray as white, was a religious figure, defunct or not?

That, above all else, is what really annoys me about the whole thing. 'The Doctor is always a white man, he should be a woman or a black man'. It'd be very different if the Doctor was always a black woman, and people finally wanted a white man.

And I know someone is going to say 'but that is different!', if you think about it, it really isn't. White folk haven't helped themselves by being largely systematically the villains of history (generalising of course) but I hate this whole attitude you see on Tumblr especially that white and male are both associated with 'bad' and white male together may as well be the devil in human skin.

Maybe I am wrong on this next part, but the Doctor has never been predominantly white and a man for social or political statements, they are just the people who have been cast. And if he becomes a woman, or a black man, it should be because the best actor won, the Doctor is a damn Timelord, his role shouldn't be taken up by the person who best fits the social justice crowd of the time of his inception. We had enough of that shit with when Torchwood decided that the only sexual orientation of the time was gay.

[Sentai]

That already happened. J in men in Black was white in the comics, and black in the movies. And again in I am Legend.. I think maybe it's just Will Smith