[MaskedRiderAsakura]

This show had so many pointless characters come to think of it. It's like for half of the cast, they couldn't figure out what to do with them past whatever 2 episode story arc they had with them.

Onari is completely useless and only served to be annoying comic relief. He doesn't even function well as the surprisingly wise, yet goofy monk-type character, because he continuously makes stupid and short-sighted decisions while Akari is the one actually pushing Takeru forward. He mentioned some sort of "dark past" prior to becoming a monk, but it's never mentioned again after that. It would have been a nice way to set up for Onari holding Takeru back from killing Adel, but there goes another missed opportunity.

Once Kanon stopped being a morality pet for Alain and Makoto, she was pretty much just there to be something for Makoto to worry about. And even then, she wasn't particularly great at that since other factors played a bigger role in their respective redemptions.

Speaking of Makoto, I'm not sure if he even has a personality. They were on to something early on when he had that rivalry with Takeru and had that whole "I've got to become stronger!" thing going on. Sure, it would have been hella cliche, but it'd give him...SOMETHING, other than being Takeru's 100% loyal sidekick that occasionally obsesses over his sister.

Narita was even more pointless having around than Kanon, and Shibuya was left completely ignored once his two episode story arc was over.

Takeru, Alain and Akari were pretty much the only characters out of the entire main cast that stood out to me as full-fledged characters. Everyone else was ridiculously one-note.

[Fish Sandwich]

I guess this another one of those things where I just look at it really differently from everyone else. I don't really feel every character in a show needs to serve a purpose to the Plot at all times. I'd argue it feels more 'real' in a sense to not have everyone just be a tool for the narrative.

Onari may not have some big moment to shine but he's Takeru's friend and that's significant in of itself for the sort of show Ghost is. Not to mention all the little moments he has. It's like that for everyone.

Also Makoto is fine. He's an idiot who tries really hard to atone for his stint as a villain by being the loyal sidekick. The idea of having him be some Shonen rival character seems way more horrible to me.

[MaskedRiderAsakura]

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Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

I guess this another one of those things where I just look at it really differently from everyone else. I don't really feel every character in a show needs to serve a purpose to the Plot at all times. I'd argue it feels more 'real' in a sense to not have everyone just be a tool for the narrative.

I'd be okay with this if these weren't characters that we've spent the past 48 episodes with but they are. It'd actually be more 'real' if they were actual people instead of background filler.

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Onari may not have some big moment to shine but he's Takeru's friend and that's significant in of itself for the sort of show Ghost is. Not to mention all the little moments he has. It's like that for everyone.

The problem with Onari is that, for as much as he claims to be Takeru's friend and as much as the show tries to tell us that he's wise, it's hard to buy it. Takeru is like 10 days from dying for good and Onari does something remarkably stupid just because he wants attention. We're "told" he's wise, but he never does anything that would suggest that.

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Also Makoto is fine. He's an idiot who tries really hard to atone for his stint as a villain by being the loyal sidekick. The idea of having him be some Shonen rival character seems way more horrible to me.

I'm not saying he's a Shonen rival but give him SOME sort of character arc that isn't totally centered around being a Takeru fanboy. Like I said, these are actual people. Makoto should have his own goals and dreams outside of Takeru. This is something they did well with Alain, that's why he feels like an actual character and not just another guy that fights alongside Takeru. Even the 15 Heroic eyecons feel like more of a character than Makoto.

[Fish Sandwich]

You mean the thing with possessing Alain? Because I don't feel it's fair to complain the characters don't feel like people and then reject the show for having them act like people. The show made it a point as early as episode 3 that Onari hates feeling useless. It's not as simple as him just wanting attention. He thought he would be the big hero and finally help out and it's a humbling moment for him when he realizes he's in over his head.

What's wrong with Makoto's character centering on others, for that matter? I'm sure he'd have plenty of dreams if he weren't so busy fighting Gamma. He's someone who REALLY values his friends and goes to great lengths to protect them. He's not as fleshed-out as Takeru or Alain but he HAS a personality.

[TheGloryXros]

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Originally Posted by MaskedRiderAsakura

Speaking of Makoto, I'm not sure if he even has a personality. They were on to something early on when he had that rivalry with Takeru and had that whole "I've got to become stronger!" thing going on. Sure, it would have been hella cliche, but it'd give him...SOMETHING, other than being Takeru's 100% loyal sidekick that occasionally obsesses over his sister.

Ya know, I was so hyped for Makoto as a character when he was introduced, cuz one of the interesting things I liked about his motivation of hatred for Takeru early in the Series was just the fact that he hated that while he & Kanon were suffering in the Ganma World for 10 years(which BTW, the story STILL hasn't really fleshed out, nor have they kept very consistent with that considering the flashbacks we HAVE seen), Takeru & the others were, at least to him, just living their normal lives and not bothering to try anything to save them. I thought this was something Takeru would seriously have to address in order to win over Makoto. But what happened? Takeru simply revived Kanon, and all of a sudden he was cool with him. I HATED that quick transition....

[Fish Sandwich]

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Originally Posted by TheGloryXros

(which BTW, the story STILL hasn't really fleshed out, nor have they kept very consistent with that considering the flashbacks we HAVE seen),

What's inconsistent about it?

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Originally Posted by TheGloryXros

Takeru simply revived Kanon, and all of a sudden he was cool with him. I HATED that quick transition....

All of a sudden? Considering he saved her life at the expense of his own that's hardly an insignificant gesture on Takeru's part.

[TheGloryXros]

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Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

What's inconsistent about it?

In all the flashbacks we've seen of the Ganma World, none have portrayed it to be a "living hell" as Makoto described it. At its worst, two people died due to simple sickness.

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Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

All of a sudden? Considering he saved her life at the expense of his own that's hardly an insignificant gesture on Takeru's part.

But it still doesn't address why Takeru & the others just didn't do anything for the past 10 years in order to save him and Kanon. In fact, I don't think Takeru has ever outright apologized for that! I always was under the impression that that was the stem of Makoto's hatred for Takeru, so Takeru simply saving Kanon in place of himself, while nice & all, shouldn't have resolved that issue so easily. It should've just had Makoto somewhat more open to Takeru, sure, but it shouldn't have been the thing that made him completely buddies with him again all of a sudden.

[Fish Sandwich]

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Originally Posted by TheGloryXros

In all the flashbacks we've seen of the Ganma World, none have portrayed it to be a "living hell" as Makoto described it.

You just took his word for that? Makoto was in a pretty emo mood at the time, I don't think it's an error that his description doesn't match up with what actually happened.

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Originally Posted by TheGloryXros

But it still doesn't address why Takeru & the others just didn't do anything for the past 10 years in order to save him and Kanon. In fact, I don't think Takeru has ever outright apologized for that!
...
It should've just had Makoto somewhat more open to Takeru, sure, but it shouldn't have been the thing that made him completely buddies with him again all of a sudden.

I guess that would've made for good drama but to be fair to Takeru he was like seven years old and not at all in the know about ghost-related stuff at the time. His actions say he's sorry more than words would, too. Specter is a giant a**hole to him but Takeru constantly tries to help him once he figures out the truth, and him saving Kanon is the thing that finally makes Makoto understand how stupid he's been acting.

[MaskedRiderAsakura]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

You just took his word for that? Makoto was in a pretty emo mood at the time, I don't think it's an error that his description doesn't match up with what actually happened.

It's an error because, for a while, Makoto was our only account of the Ganma World, and it led to a lot of buildup and expectations that it didn't even come close to meeting. And it wasn't an intentional subversion either, because Makoto isn't an established liar/drama queen. Was he going through his typical secondary Rider/Shonen rival phase at the time? Sure. But that doesn't mean what he went through wasn't legitimate suffering, and clearly the story treats it as such, because it's said to be one of the reasons for his now cold, super-serious demeanor in the first place (among Kanon turning into an Eyecon). Saying "Nah, he's just a crybaby" completely undermines his character and furthermore, even if we did accept that his description of events is intentionally off-base from reality, it makes him look like an even blander character, because now we know that what he went through wasn't even real.

A good show doesn't constantly require the audience to make excuses for plot holes and plot inconsistencies.

[TheGloryXros]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

You just took his word for that? Makoto was in a pretty emo mood at the time, I don't think it's an error that his description doesn't match up with what actually happened.

Umm, YEA I took his word for that, because that's not really something that would be overexaggerated to the point where it's completely inconsistent to what we've seen....Him being in an "emo" mood was BECAUSE of Takeru & the others leaving them in such a world...If the Ganma World was nice & all, he wouldn't have been making this such a big deal now would he?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

I guess that would've made for good drama but to be fair to Takeru he was like seven years old and not at all in the know about ghost-related stuff at the time. His actions say he's sorry more than words would, too. Specter is a giant a**hole to him but Takeru constantly tries to help him once he figures out the truth, and him saving Kanon is the thing that finally makes Makoto understand how stupid he's been acting.

I'm not quite sure how saving his sister once pays for 10 years of "hell" in the Ganma World as children, personally.....but that's just me...