[SPLIT LIP]

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Originally Posted by Dr Kain

What are you talking about? Ouja IS a phenomenal villain because he IS a ruthless killer. That is what makes a villain a true villain. I don't need a complicated backstory or a reason for every villain to be one, I just want to enjoy someone who is pure evil just for the sake of being pure evil.

No, actually you don't.

Calling him "phenominal" is hysterical. The guy is textbook lame. He LITERALLY pulls contract cards out of his ass, and all he does is kill people and say he's vexed. That is not a good villain. That is not even a villain. There is nothing enjoyable to watch with him. I know exactly what he's going to do every episode because there's nothing to him.

He's a glorified monster of the week. Evil just because, no personality, no character. He doesn't have any charm or cool factor. He's looks like a young Asian Gene Wilder who just got out of bed and never cuts his hair. There's plenty of villains who are evil just because, but they make up for it by being characters. He's just a boogey man making faces in the dark.

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Originally Posted by Starscreamer

and his suit actor just conveys the psychotic brutal style oh so nice...

You mean by stretching his neck every now and then?

Yeah, that's hardly brutal. He doesn't fight any different from anyone else. Also his staff is annoying. I don't know why he has it since it in no way fits his non-character. Like I said, when I look at his rider design I see what should be a suave, sinister person. Not just some psycho who has literally whatever powers the plot demands he has for no reason.

Ouja hardly ruins the show, but there is nothing entertaining about him. He's just a mad dog, which would maybe be okay if he was a second to an actual villain, but he's the one constantly fighting the riders and using the cards. Really at odds with his one-track nature. And that's really it, everyone already fights eachother, so what makes Ouja special? He does the same thing every other character does but without any motivation or personality.

[Dr Kain]

If you think he just pulled those cards out of his ass, you obviously haven't paid attention to the show that much. Shiro has been giving Ouja special attention compared to the others. And Ouja IS what makes the show so great. He does have a charm in that he is bat**** insane. He is just a psycho that does not need a reason for it. Not everyone in real life needs a reason for why they did something.

Not sure if you ever watched the show Heroes, but one of my main problems with the show was that Season 1 introduced Sylar, who seemed awesome, but then they had to go and make him all sympathetic and a misunderstood character. There was no true villain until the fourth season when they brought in Sam, who was evil just because he was evil. THe man leveled a whole city out of anger. That was pure awesome because he was not afraid to use his power like every other character on the show did.

Ouja is the same way. He just does what he feels like without a rhyme or reason for it. It also helps that he used Gai as a shield and then killed the dude. The man took a gun to a child's head. I have not seen any villains in any KR show ever do that. There are other things he does I would mention, but I am not sure where you are, so I do not want to spoil anything by mistake. He is right up there with Shadow Moon in the best evil Rider department.

[Switchblade]

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Originally Posted by SPLIT LIP

Calling him "phenominal" is hysterical. The guy is textbook lame. He LITERALLY pulls contract cards out of his ass, and all he does is kill people and say he's vexed. That is not a good villain. That is not even a villain. There is nothing enjoyable to watch with him. I know exactly what he's going to do every episode because there's nothing to him.

The extra Contract cards are Ouja's unique ability. All of the Riders have one special attack that's unique to their deck alongside the Strike, Guard, and Final Vents. Knight has Trick, Raia has Copy, Ouja has his multiple monsters.

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He's a glorified monster of the week. Evil just because, no personality, no character. He doesn't have any charm or cool factor. He's looks like a young Asian Gene Wilder who just got out of bed and never cuts his hair. There's plenty of villains who are evil just because, but they make up for it by being characters. He's just a boogey man making faces in the dark.

I actually read once - and mind you, I'm not sure how accurate this is - that Ouja was originally meant to be a short-term character, he just became really popular so the writers kept him around (there are a couple points where it looks like he's going to be written off, but he just instantly comes back). One of the bits of evidence for this that I found interesting is his suit - the three main Riders have uniquely colored base suits under their armor: Ryuki is red, Knight is blue, Zolda is green. All of the shorter duration Riders have black suits.

[SPLIT LIP]

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Originally Posted by Dr Kain

If you think he just pulled those cards out of his ass, you obviously haven't paid attention to the show that much. Shiro has been giving Ouja special attention compared to the others.

No he hasn't.

What, do you mean because we saw him actually give Ouja his deck? Didn't he do that for all Riders? I mean, everybody talks about how they recieved their decks from him. I'd probably buy that if maybe we saw Shiro put the cards in his deck, but we still don't know how the decks were made or how they really work. (Like all Kamen Rider series, they just kind of ignore the transformation devices workings)

Speaking of, it's hilarious how everyone treats him like he's unstoppable now and no one can contain him. JUST TAKE AWAY HIS DECK. A child did it to Ryuki, just wait until he's out of the mirror world, tackle him, steal it, and haul him to the police. I absolutely loathe to use this term, but he feels like a Gary Stu. He's powerful and amazing just because the writers felt like it and all the other characters do is talk about him.

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And Ouja IS what makes the show so great.

Then I fear for this show's future, because lame snake guy with no personality is far from great.

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He does have a charm in that he is bat**** insane.

But he isn't. He's only batshit insane once in a while. He hasn't had an outburst or really done anything nuts for a while. Closest thing was him jumping off a boat. Whoo-whee look out guys the crazy train is at full speed here.

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He is just a psycho that does not need a reason for it. Not everyone in real life needs a reason for why they did something.

Yes they absolutely do.

See, the thing about psychotic people is they always have a reason. What makes them psychotic is the reason only makes sense to them in their own warped minds. And they're never the same. Some wouldn't even admit there's a reason, and have reasons for not having reasons. That's what makes a psychotic and what makes them worthwhile charatcer sin fiction, but if you fail to explore that and just make your character a directionless shmuck you're misisng teh point.

And even still, this isn't real life, it's a TV show. And one in desperate need of a better villain.

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Not sure if you ever watched the show Heroes, but one of my main problems with the show was that Season 1 introduced Sylar, who seemed awesome, but then they had to go and make him all sympathetic and a misunderstood character. There was no true villain until the fourth season when they brought in Sam, who was evil just because he was evil. THe man leveled a whole city out of anger. That was pure awesome because he was not afraid to use his power like every other character on the show did.

I don't think you understand. There is never any middle ground with some people.

I don't want him sympathetic, I want him not boring. If taht means sympathetic, then fine, but it doesn't have to. The Joker isn not sympathetic and he's a riot, because he has personality and is "batshit insane." He has charrisma and mannerisms that define him and make him instantly recognisable as more than just a monster. Ouja does not. He just grins like a doofus and cracks his neck when he transforms even though he never does as a person and indeed has completely different body language between forms.

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Ouja is the same way. He just does what he feels like without a rhyme or reason for it.

But that's really fucking boring and cheap.

This is a narrative, and their should always be reason. Otherwise you're just writing things to happen just 'cause. It is the absolute thing to avoid in writing.

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It also helps that he used Gai as a shield and then killed the dude.

That was cool, because I hated Gai. Man, kinda makes me a titch more forgiving of Ouja imagining if Gai was the one who became a main villain.

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Originally Posted by Switchblade

The extra Contract cards are Ouja's unique ability. All of the Riders have one special attack that's unique to their deck alongside the Strike, Guard, and Final Vents. Knight has Trick, Raia has Copy, Ouja has his multiple monsters.

The show never explains this, though. It's really sad that I have to find this out online because Ryuki is too busy showing bad CGI monsters fuse into... something. Most of them have a lot of the same types of cards, so for any of them to just start pulling out random cards is jarring enough, but Ouja keeps doing it. There was never anything implied that this was his special ability or that decks had special abilities. Hell, the entire deck and the way it works is so critically underdevloped who really knows what goes on.

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I actually read once - and mind you, I'm not sure how accurate this is - that Ouja was originally meant to be a short-term character, he just became really popular so the writers kept him around (there are a couple points where it looks like he's going to be written off, but he just instantly comes back). One of the bits of evidence for this that I found interesting is his suit - the three main Riders have uniquely colored base suits under their armor: Ryuki is red, Knight is blue, Zolda is green. All of the shorter duration Riders have black suits.

This actually makes sense, because he's written like a short-term character. If he lasted as long as Raia, I wouldn't probably mind him as much as he very much seems like an obstacle to overcome. Not anything special by himself, but exists as a trial for the heroes. But I'm forced to sit through his scenes as I watch the show and he doesn't DO anything.

Like seriously, point me to a scene where he does something memorable or cool. Point me to an iconic moment, something, anything that can be used as testement to this "great" character. Anything at all that isn't just him smirking or fighting. You can't.

[Switchblade]

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Originally Posted by SPLIT LIP

This actually makes sense, because he's written like a short-term character. If he lasted as long as Raia, I wouldn't probably mind him as much as he very much seems like an obstacle to overcome. Not anything special by himself, but exists as a trial for the heroes. But I'm forced to sit through his scenes as I watch the show and he doesn't DO anything.

Like seriously, point me to a scene where he does something memorable or cool. Point me to an iconic moment, something, anything that can be used as testement to this "great" character. Anything at all that isn't just him smirking or fighting. You can't.

As I understand it, a lot of his biggest fans were young moms stuck at home watching tv with the kids.

It also helped, though, that the actor really got into the part and is still one of those actors who's happy to talk about his time on Rider and to at least voice the character again in stuff like Decade.

[SPLIT LIP]

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Originally Posted by Switchblade

As I understand it, a lot of his biggest fans were young moms stuck at home watching tv with the kids.

It also helped, though, that the actor really got into the part and is still one of those actors who's happy to talk about his time on Rider and to at least voice the character again in stuff like Decade.

That's pretty cool of him. I always like hearing that about actors.

Anyway, it seems like snakehead is finding three monsters more trouble than they're worth. I like this more, as it gives him something to struggle against that he can't handwave aside, as well as brings back the up until now ENTIRELY forgotten contract bit. So I guess we're to assume Dragredder and Darkwing haven't gotten vicious because Ryuki and Knight are doing off-screen monster killing?

Just funny that it's these three that are getting rowdy when, say, Magnugiga hasn't killed any monsters in forever. We haven't actually seen a monster consume another's power for, like, twenty or so episodes.

EDIT: Also, since I mentioned it, I now always see Gene Wilder when I look at him.

[Starscreamer]

His purpose for the Rider War was the fact he had no reservations about fighting...his job was essentially to goose the fights and to weed down the combatants...you described him as a wild dog...yup, that is his purpose. Where there is a fight, you'll find him...he had no noble reason...just wanted to fight and win! He could care less about sickness...or riches...or some girlfriend in a coma (I know, it's serious...)...he'll kill you anyway...as for the suit actor, he did more than just stretch his neck. If you watched how he fought, he had no finesse, just brutal swings backed by strength. He was a walking blunt object. Ya won't win this with me lol

[Dr Kain]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPLIT LIP

Like seriously, point me to a scene where he does something memorable or cool. Point me to an iconic moment, something, anything that can be used as testement to this "great" character. Anything at all that isn't just him smirking or fighting. You can't.

He holds a restaurant hostage.
He puts a gun to a girls head.
He kills Gai.
He kills Raia.
He acquired Raia and Gai's Contract Monsters
He used a girl as bait to feed his Contract Monsters
He kills his brother by seducing Reiko
He tricks a lawyer into thinking he is being treated inhumanely.
He kills Goro
He runs out to meet his fate against an army of cops with guns

And then everything Starscreamer just said. Once you discover Shiro's plans in the early 40s, you'll know why someone like Asakura winning would be in Shiro's favor.

[Switchblade]

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Originally Posted by Dr Kain

And then everything Starscreamer just said. Once you discover Shiro's plans in the early 40s, you'll know why someone like Asakura winning would be in Shiro's favor.

Yeah, there's very much a reason why most of the Riders are psycho- and/or sociopathic. Tezuka and Shinji are anomalies and, you'll notice, they were the only two Riders that Kanzaki didn't choose to join the war.

[XW1n5t0nX]

Well, I finally sat down and started a Kamen Rider. And I just finished episode 1 of Den-O. And I must say, I really liked it. It was funny and when it got to the action part, I enjoyed it very much.