[Switchblade]

Where did this whole concept of "filler" come from? At one point did every episode of every show have to contribute to some kind of overarching plot? When did episodic television become a bad thing?

When I was a kid I was a huge fan of Star Trek the Next Generation. The show had no grand plot that was developed over the course of each season - every week they'd arrive at a new planet, run into a new ship in space, or be hit by some kind of new threat. Sometimes a character would develop a little bit from his or her experiences, but for the most part nothing really changed. They went on an adventure and then the next episode took them somewhere else and the previous episode was largely forgotten. And it was great; I loved the hell out of that show and so did a bunch of other people - probably including some of you guys.

So why can't Kamen Rider pull off something like that? Why does every episode need to be part of the evil leader's endgame or contribute some dramatic new development in an existing character? As someone who's watched and enjoyed a bunch of Showa era Rider, it never bothers me that each episode is a done-in-one (sometimes two) Monster of the Week story. A lot of the episodes are entertaining and fun, even if there's no revelation about the villain or the hero. If the show is fun to watch, isn't that enough?

Now, to be fair, I'm not standing here accusing people of anything. I do this, too. I kinda hated the middle two-quarters of Fourze precisely because it felt like nothing was happening and all we were getting were episodic adventures. So yes, I'm equally guilty of wanting plot advancement all the damn time now and I wish I knew where that attitude came from. I love Garo, after all, and Garo series tend to have a large amount of episodic adventures with plot advancement sprinkled in here and there. What is it about Garo that lets me accept that more there, but get annoyed with ten episodes of the Rider Club wondering who Meteor is while Ryusei secretly hates them?

I really wish I could shake this attitude, because clearly tight pacing is not a priority for modern Kamen Rider anymore. Fourze had a lot of episodic two-parters and Wizard had even more. At this point it's also likely - although by no means guaranteed - that Gaim will end up at least somewhat similarly. I don't know. I'm not sure where this need for serialization in my modern Rider came from - maybe it's because I started with Agito, which was heavily serialized, maybe it's because I was a huge Lost fan - but I sometimes wish I could just block out that part of my brain and enjoy episodes without wondering how everything all ties together again.

Sorry that was long, but I was thinking about this a week or two ago and was reminded of it by what Sentai just said.

[Locke]

My main issue is that if the show clearly sets out to be episodic at the start, and builds its format to fit that, then it is fine. But using Black for example, it keeps telling us more is going on than we realise, but I'm twenty episodes in now and the show has barely even started yet. If you want to be an episodic adventure, fine, but don't tease us with stuff that you never plan to realise.

[chasesinister]

Just finished Hibiki and the 7 Oni. Well its was ok, wasn't that bad but didn't blow me away either. I was interested to see it because I read that it was supposed to be KR version of 7 Samurai and yeah I can see the similarities between the two. A village was being threatened by a Makamou/Bandits, the village hire Oni/Samurai to protect them. The Oni/Samurai gather more Onis/Samurais to help, the village doesn't trust them. So yeah pretty much the whole thing was quite like 7 Samurai.

I wondered in the beginning why there were 8 Onis doing the Taiko drums when there's supposed to be just 7 of them. Didn't see the betrayal coming but it made sense why for the first half of the movie Kabuki was the main Oni.

I also thought that Ibuki and Todoroki's suit look out of place. I wasn't a big fan of the movie exclusive suits too except the flying one. And poor Akira was just there to be a sacrificial lamb.

Another thing, in the end of the movie they showed an In Memory of Kanbe Miyuki, but the film was shown 2005 and she died 2008 so I'm not sure how that happened. Maybe what I saw was from a DVD released after her death I guess.

[SPLIT LIP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

My main issue is that if the show clearly sets out to be episodic at the start, and builds its format to fit that, then it is fine. But using Black for example, it keeps telling us more is going on than we realise, but I'm twenty episodes in now and the show has barely even started yet. If you want to be an episodic adventure, fine, but don't tease us with stuff that you never plan to realise.

I'm glad you're still mostly enjoying Den-O. Your experiences seem to mirror mine from earlier in this thread.

I absolutely agree on filler, even if I can't recall what the episode following Gun form was about, I wish rider shows were maybe five or ten episodes shorter. Not every episode has to serve the overall plot, but I've yet to see a single series that couldn't do without some fat trimming. Even W, my favourite show, had a LOT of forgettable filler before the first movie. (and it follows that episodic format you describe)

EDIT: I think the next episode, or the one after that, (depending if you've finished the hostage situation) I think is the MOW voice by GaoGaiGar, which was awesome. He's was pretty cool for a monster of the week.

[Den-O]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPLIT LIP

I'm glad you're still mostly enjoying Den-O. Your experiences seem to mirror mine from earlier in this thread.

I absolutely agree on filler, even if I can't recall what the episode following Gun form was about, I wish rider shows were maybe five or ten episodes shorter. Not every episode has to serve the overall plot, but I've yet to see a single series that couldn't do without some fat trimming. Even W, my favourite show, had a LOT of forgettable filler before the first movie. (and it follows that episodic format you describe)

Another rare case of us agreeing

[SPLIT LIP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Den-O

Another rare case of us agreeing

Pre-movie, I can only really recall the little girl who thought W was her dad (which was actually quite good) and the first arc with the terrible T-rex. (not so good)

W has one of the most unimpressive starts for one of the best shows.

[Locke]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPLIT LIP

I'm glad you're still mostly enjoying Den-O. Your experiences seem to mirror mine from earlier in this thread.

I absolutely agree on filler, even if I can't recall what the episode following Gun form was about, I wish rider shows were maybe five or ten episodes shorter. Not every episode has to serve the overall plot, but I've yet to see a single series that couldn't do without some fat trimming. Even W, my favourite show, had a LOT of forgettable filler before the first movie. (and it follows that episodic format you describe)

EDIT: I think the next episode, or the one after that, (depending if you've finished the hostage situation) I think is the MOW voice by GaoGaiGar, which was awesome. He's was pretty cool for a monster of the week.

I don't really know what this episode is about. Ryou's sister is acting completely out of character, the character who instigated the hostage situation turned out to be totally worthless and by the end the plot of the story of the week had shifted so far away from the hostage situation I couldn't quite work out why we were still in it. At least after the next episode that wraps this up, a good arc is coming.

[SPLIT LIP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

I don't really know what this episode is about. Ryou's sister is acting completely out of character, the character who instigated the hostage situation turned out to be totally worthless and by the end the plot of the story of the week had shifted so far away from the hostage situation I couldn't quite work out why we were still in it. At least after the next episode that wraps this up, a good arc is coming.

Ah yesm it wa steh hostage situation. That is probably one of the sillier arcs. The end, though, is a bit funny. Again, it would've worked better as one doofy bottle episode instead of a typical two-ep arc. (and I'd still probably skip it if I rewatched)

BTW, Ryoutaro's sister acting how she does is... actually pretty tragic. Just keep that in mind.

[Locke]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPLIT LIP

Ah yesm it wa steh hostage situation. That is probably one of the sillier arcs. The end, though, is a bit funny. Again, it would've worked better as one doofy bottle episode instead of a typical two-ep arc. (and I'd still probably skip it if I rewatched)

BTW, Ryoutaro's sister acting how she does is... actually pretty tragic. Just keep that in mind.

There were some fun moments, like battles with Axe Form are always welcome, and I still believe in my headcanon that Momo and Hana have the hots for one another and whenever I see the way those two fight compared to how Momo fights with the other Imagin always gives my headcanon evidence.

But yeah everything else was largely worthless, especially as it put a lot of spotlight on Rod Form who may as well not be here and the whole Renegade Imagin aspect of Gun Form is poorly realised, and undermines how fucking cool Gun Form actually is.

I'm really intrigued by Ryou's sister as well, I find her really annoying at the minute since all she is there to be is dribbled over (which I don't really understand because although she is pretty, she is no stunner) but all the mystery around her and the telescope suggests she might actually become an interesting character.

[SPLIT LIP]

You've seen mysterious watch guy in detective coat, right?

Because that's also gonna be important REAL soon. Like, I can't quite remember but it may even be part of ImagaoGaiGar's arc.