[Dr Kain]

Ian stopped being developed after the episode where he learned sadness was the one who killed his friend.

Ami had no story arcs whatsoever. She just suddenly was in love with Daigo and then Daigo suddenly loved her in the last episode.

Nossan was the best character in the show for his personality, but he had no story arcs at all.

Uchy had one arc, which was done after he joined the team.

[EpsilonX]

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[Suzu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matrixbeast

How is this different? Damn near every Sentai is basically the Red hero's story. The only thing Kyoryu does differently is that the series takes it another step further by not giving anyone else a story arc. Just story snippets.

Well, to be fair here, the Kyoryugers DID have some more backstory than for example GekiYellow and GekiBlue. Oh and GekiChopper. That guy sure got the short end of the stick when it comes to character depth :/

While not all of them were so big that they were memorable, Souji, Ian and Nossan felt pretty fleshed out and Ucchi was pretty memorable as far as his story goes (Of course Ian and Souji did have a streak of episodes when their story wasn't as present, especially Ian. But his final confrontation with Aigallon was pretty neat). As for the Guardians/Spirit Rangers, I felt Yayoi and Torin had the most interesting backstory. Admitted, Tessai and Ramirez were rather gimmicky. Especially Ramirez' background would've been interesting to see, but yeah, there's various factors that kept them from doing more with him.

Speaking of Gekiranger, Jan is also pretty much like Daigo as in most characters develop because he is there. It's a tad bit different in execution, but there were quite a handful of episodes where he triggered the other members (and the villains).

[Dr Kain]

I disagree. Jan is nothing like Daigo. Jan has faults, he fails from time to time, and he has to learn how to be a leader. Daigo is perfect right from the get go and doesn't fail once.

It also doesn't help that the villains of Kyoryuger are generic and boring. Geki had Rio and Mele, who are hands down the best villains in the series since the Saima Clan.

[Kamen Rider Lucha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Kain

I disagree. Jan is nothing like Daigo. Jan has faults, he fails from time to time, and he has to learn how to be a leader. Daigo is perfect right from the get go and doesn't fail once.

But like... He does have flaws, and he does fail.

Remember the episode where Tessai fails him in his training? That's because he doesn't have humility and tries to take everything on himself.

Remember when he went Dino-crazy because of the Carnival upgrade and abandoned the team for the better part of two episodes? That's because he always leaps before he looks. That's a flaw AND a failure.

He's a fool who often falls for easy traps because he doesn't think them through. He's a hothead who rushes into battle half-cocked, relying on his teammates to bail him out.

Like I've said elsewhere, I'm not a huge huge fan of Kyoryuger. I just don't agree with the narrative that Daigo being foregrounded is that show's main problem.

[Red5]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suzu

Well, to be fair here, the Kyoryugers DID have some more backstory than for example GekiYellow and GekiBlue. Oh and GekiChopper. That guy sure got the short end of the stick when it comes to character depth :/

Geri Chopper did get shafted. He was there just so they could bring in the rhino and nothing more.

Quote:

While not all of them were so big that they were memorable, Souji, Ian and Nossan felt pretty fleshed out and Ucchi was pretty memorable as far as his story goes (Of course Ian and Souji did have a streak of episodes when their story wasn't as present, especially Ian. But his final confrontation with Aigallon was pretty neat). As for the Guardians/Spirit Rangers, I felt Yayoi and Torin had the most interesting backstory. Admitted, Tessai and Ramirez were rather gimmicky. Especially Ramirez' background would've been interesting to see, but yeah, there's various factors that kept them from doing more with him.

They did have development, but all of it was caused or aided by Daigo, which I didn't like. Nossan realized how strong his family was , because Daigo told him. The love triangle was dumb and even Utchy falling in love with him when he first met him (he did look like his previous lord though). I just didn't like how everything revolved around Daigo. Even the final fight was just him. The entire team was needed to do everything leading up to it, but the final fight came down to just him defeating Deboss, then coming back to go on an ice cream date with Amy. It was a bit much.

Quote:

Speaking of Gekiranger, Jan is also pretty much like Daigo as in most characters develop because he is there. It's a tad bit different in execution, but there were quite a handful of episodes where he triggered the other members (and the villains).

Gekiranger did focus on Jan a ton, but Jan had faults. He could henshin at first, couldn't figure out the team blaster at first, was a terrible leader at the beginning, was brash, impatient, had an episode where the biggest problem he had to figure out was for how the Gekirangers to stand in their line up, and had a complete breakdown when he found out about his parents.

Dig was abandoned by his dad when he was a kid, but he was fine. He traveled the world and solved everyone's problems. When his dad did come back, it was like another day at work for him. Daigo never developed; he started off as the epitome of man and ended that way. It became taxing to watch the more the season went on.

[Dr Kain]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Lucha

Remember when he went Dino-crazy because of the Carnival upgrade and abandoned the team for the better part of two episodes? That's because he always leaps before he looks. That's a flaw AND a failure.

That wasn't a failure, that was showing how insignificant the rest of the team is because Daigo can do no wrong. He was written to be perfect, he was acted to be perfect, and that is how he felt the entire series because he knew he could do anything because he was written that way. He was omnipotent.

[EpsilonX]

Just watched episode 2. Blue guy (haven't learned their names yet) figures out his strength is his family because Daigo tells him it is. Then Daigo fixes the dinosaur statue.

Episode 3 preview: Daigo tells Green's father to accept him.


I can already see what you guys all mean, and I don't know if I'll be able to handle a whole season of it.

[Matrixbeast]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suzu

Well, to be fair here, the Kyoryugers DID have some more backstory than for example GekiYellow and GekiBlue. Oh and GekiChopper. That guy sure got the short end of the stick when it comes to character depth :/

While not all of them were so big that they were memorable, Souji, Ian and Nossan felt pretty fleshed out and Ucchi was pretty memorable as far as his story goes (Of course Ian and Souji did have a streak of episodes when their story wasn't as present, especially Ian. But his final confrontation with Aigallon was pretty neat). As for the Guardians/Spirit Rangers, I felt Yayoi and Torin had the most interesting backstory. Admitted, Tessai and Ramirez were rather gimmicky. Especially Ramirez' background would've been interesting to see, but yeah, there's various factors that kept them from doing more with him.

Speaking of Gekiranger, Jan is also pretty much like Daigo as in most characters develop because he is there. It's a tad bit different in execution, but there were quite a handful of episodes where he triggered the other members (and the villains).

This is a bit of a different scenario.
Retsu and Ran didn't have overt story arcs, but they did grow gradually as characters. While I am disappointed that they didn't really get much (Retsu's main story revolved around Gou, which was, you know, Gou's story), you could see clear evolution for the characters. In additional, Rio and Mele had tons of growth and a long lasting and strong story arc that tied them to both Jan and Gou's stories. Ken really got the short stick, not having much story and no real change from introduction to end, I'll admit.

But Gekiranger makes it quite clear that while this is, indeed, Jan's story, it's not all about him. He grew thanks to his team, both in attitude and ability. Note that it was Ran, GekiYellow, who was put in charge of the Gekirangers at the start. Jan was foolhardy and couldn't properly communicate so he couldn't lead a team. His natural ability to use Geki was countered by his poor skills, putting him behind his teammates in terms of strength. He was the main character, but he wasn't Daigo, who was near infallible.
Additionally, Rio played a major part of in the story, and unlike other villains, it's not just as a part of the main character's progression. Rio has legitimate story arcs that advance his own character growth as well as the overarching plot at large.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Lucha

But like... He does have flaws, and he does fail.

Remember the episode where Tessai fails him in his training? That's because he doesn't have humility and tries to take everything on himself.

Remember when he went Dino-crazy because of the Carnival upgrade and abandoned the team for the better part of two episodes? That's because he always leaps before he looks. That's a flaw AND a failure.

He's a fool who often falls for easy traps because he doesn't think them through. He's a hothead who rushes into battle half-cocked, relying on his teammates to bail him out.

Like I've said elsewhere, I'm not a huge huge fan of Kyoryuger. I just don't agree with the narrative that Daigo being foregrounded is that show's main problem.

The difference is that they're poor attempts to highlight his "Flaws."
He failed Tessai's test because, as Tessai literally states, that he was too perfect. He didn't fail because he tried to take on too much alone and lost, but because he literally solved all 4 of the other Kyoryuger's challenges at once, faster, without trouble. When he abandoned the team because of Carnival? He still succeeded. Didn't the team come to him complaining that they need to work together (I really can't remember much of this situation)?
Falling for easy traps? He still comes out unscathed with no help from his teammates. They just jokingly scold him for walking into a trap.

The problem with Daigo is that his flaws are the same types of flaws given to a mary sue who is "Too beautiful."
Daigo is a foolhardy idiot who runs in, but there are no consequences. He runs in and wins. They set up plenty of opportunities to showcase Daigo being strong, but needing his team, but they choose not to, rather to show off Daigo's superiority and ability to get results. Choosing to ignore any strategy or technique the team comes up with because he's a walking tank. He can't lose, and he knows it.

Daigo is kind of the poster child for misleading information. Just because the show tells us it's a flaw doesn't make it true if they don't put their money where their mouth is. Perfection isn't a flaw.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EpsilonX

Just watched episode 2. Blue guy (haven't learned their names yet) figures out his strength is his family because Daigo tells him it is. Then Daigo fixes the dinosaur statue.

Episode 3 preview: Daigo tells Green's father to accept him.


I can already see what you guys all mean, and I don't know if I'll be able to handle a whole season of it.

Good luck.

[Kamen Rider Lucha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Kain

He was written to be perfect, he was acted to be perfect, and that is how he felt the entire series because he knew he could do anything because he was written that way. He was omnipotent.

Alright, let's say Daigo was perfect-- that he was perfect by design, and that the series was conceived and built with King Daigo as a flawless character. Do we decry every Superman story for featuring a perfect, flawless hero? How about James Bond? The Doctor? I sure don't. Because in those characters' best stories, their perfection acts as a catalyst for their less-than-perfect companions to overcome their own flaws. I guess my thing is, I don't think a perfect protagonist is necessarily a problem... so long as the story is still fun and interesting and populated by compelling characters and great action. I think that's the case with Kyoryuger.

I absolutely do not subscribe to the criticism that the non-Daigo Kyoryugers get the short shrift in the character department (okay, maybe Amy, but that's more of a Sentai-wide issue with female heroes). I know it's subjective, but compared to the rest of the modern Sentai shows, I think the other Kyoryugers-- in spite of perhaps not getting as much screen time-- are more distinct, interesting, and better developed than any of the ToQgers and all of the Ninningers except Kasumi. Sure, they pale in comparison to the Shinkengers and Gokaigers, but they're cooler than the main three Go-Busters and every Goseiger except Alata & GoseiKnight. I find them and their stories interesting, and in my book, their growth justifies Daigo's perceived flawlessness.

Kyoryuger is also one of the more plot-forward Sentai shows of the past five years, has comparatively little filler, and has great pacing. I don't think these things suddenly become irrelevant just because Daigo is "perfect."

Now, does the show always accomplish its goals? Is it always good? No, but no Sentai is ever perfectly consistent. Does it have flaws like excessive toy marketing and tasteless juvenalia? Does its early flashiness result in the show running out of money toward the end? Yeah, and those are huge problems.

But I think that Flawless Daigo is a boring criticism that doesn't quite get to the heart of what makes Kyoryuger, ultimately, a middle-of-the-road entry into the Sentai canon... Despite having some better-than-average elements and moments.