[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshToku

I completely forgot that Hirose's dad turned out to be a robot! In a show where trading card monsters are fighting to be the dominant species on Earth, that plot point feels like an extra step up in absurdity.

It's honest-to-god one of the dumbest things I've seen on this show, and maybe in this franchise. I hate it so much, and I'm "excited" to, I guess, get a chance to talk more about it later today.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshToku

Clearly it was overshadowed in my mind by the awesome moment with Chalice here. Between backhanding Leangle and then talking down Blade without flinching, it's just such a wonderful full-circle moment after everything Kenzaki had done for Hajime. These two have built up a strange but rock-solid trust in each other, and it's great to see things just work out nicely for them after so many episodes with either or both of them spent in turmoil.

I really do love how Kenzaki's method of talking down Hajime is getting Hajime to feel his humanity (calming tones, a human face pleading with him to come back), while Hajime's method of talking down Kenzaki is about defeating the monster inside him (shit-talking, an implacable Rider helmet staring back at him). It's very fun, very clever.

It almost makes me forgive how worthless the Amane Gets Kidnapped plot turned out to be!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunred

So the big boss guy from the flashback who tells Tachibana to get Karasuma for him? That is Koji Moritsugu, THE one and only Ultraseven/Dan Moroboshi. FYI Susumu Kurobe who was Ultraman/Shin Hayata had a guest appearance way back in the late 1980s in Kamen Rider BLACK.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androzani84

Kohji Moritsugu (森次 晃嗣 Moritsugu Kōji) is a Japanese actor and voice actor. He is best known worldwide for his role as Dan Moroboshi in Ultraseven and the voice actor for Ultraseven. He is widely regarded as the best actor in the Ultraman Series by fans along with Susumu Kurobe and Jiro Dan.

Thanks! I assumed he was someone notable (his acting style was... distinct enough to make me think he had a history with the genre) but I don't know non-Rider toku franchises.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AkibaSilver

Tachibana: "Well Kenzaki, I'm sure you must have done something evil in your life! Like-"
Kenzaki: "No."
Tachibana: "Wait, not even once?"
Kenzaki: "Don't think so."

There's a chance that Fish comes in with a more accurate translation of what Tachibana is saying to Kenzaki here, when he tells him they shouldn't/can't judge U.N.D.A.D. for his crimes. Either they mean literally, because they aren't the actual justice system; or they mean figuratively, because they haven't been in his position; or they mean personally, because of their own misdeeds.

Which, working backwards:

"their own misdeeds": Yep, pretty much just Tachibana! Which, again, super funny if he doesn't understand why anything he's done in the show to date is a problem.

"haven't been in his position": I'm sure the guy ("guy") is having trouble processing his grief (maybe literally, now!), but many many people have died at the hands/claws/tentacles/etc. of the Undead. There's a point when your own needs become destructive to others, and U.N.D.A.D. has totally blown past that point. Treating his actions as A Bit Of An Oopsie is, frankly, insulting to the many people who are dead. Even if he feels sorry for it, why put so much trust in someone who won't publicly atone for their failures? Why let this guy set the terms of his redemption?

"aren't the actual justice system": Citizen's arrest! There's probably something comparable in Japan! Heroes don't just stand by because it's not their responsibility! I mean, there's a pretty famous superhero who became one once he understood that he had a responsibility to use his power! Or something!

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Originally Posted by AkibaSilver

I leave this here for self-explanatory reasons

Aaaaand Save Image As. Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Switchblade

One of the things that I love about the Ultra franchise is how much the actors still show a fondness for their roles. Sentai and Rider both have actors that distance themselves or whose agencies will try to pretend that they never did the show, but Ultra actors all seem proud of that work and the brand. There was an Ultraman movie about 15 years ago that brought back the main actors and actresses from eight different Ultra shows from the 60s, 70s, and 90s; you couldn’t pull that off with any other tokusatsu brand.

That is really nice to hear. I wonder why that franchise is so different?

[Sunred]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

One of the things that I love about the Ultra franchise is how much the actors still show a fondness for their roles. Sentai and Rider both have actors that distance themselves or whose agencies will try to pretend that they never did the show, but Ultra actors all seem proud of that work and the brand. There was an Ultraman movie about 15 years ago that brought back the main actors and actresses from eight different Ultra shows from the 60s, 70s, and 90s; you couldn’t pull that off with any other tokusatsu brand.

Definitely. And I feel like at the least the original 5 actors have a respect for the genre as well as demonstrated with their constant guest appearances and what not in other toku series as well be it Kamen Rider, Super Sentai, or something else. It's like they have a sense of duty as people who have played the role of a hero that they do not want that to be tarnished in any way.

[DreadBringer]

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

It’s such a small touch, but I love how Kenzaki smiles just before he passes out. He’s so happy that Hajime is okay! Even though his ass just got knocked out! He risked everything to save his friend, and it worked, and he got to see it. That’s very sweet, and he’s a very sweet boy.

This is the standard showcase of someone putting other's lives above themselves, what matters to Kenzaki was Hajime (or others, if not Hajime) being safe, no matter what happened to him; shades of self-sacrificing as well with him being KOed.

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

It is crazy to me that this is maybe the first time someone’s brought up to Undad’s face that this is all his fault? It’s great that, as soon as Kenzaki meets him, he’s yelling at him for faking his death and unsealing the Undead. No shit! It’s so very Tachibana for him to be slightly surprised at this very sensible reaction from Kenzaki. I guess as someone who’s constantly disappointing his friends and battling them For Their Own Good, it makes sense for Tachibana to just assume Undad has a good reason for being enormously sketchy and to have blood up to his elbows. I’d love to see the gears turning in Tachibana’s head while Kenzaki blows up at Undad, him trying to figure out why letting loose a plague of monsters and emotionally devastating the people closest to you would, like, be upsetting to others.

Also, god bless tokusatsu, because BOARD had an Unseal Undead machine?! Just shove a bunch of cards into an ultrasound machine (?) and 53 monsters pop out? With zero safeguards? Amazing. Sure. Okay.

And, I don’t mean to keep stopping this episode every other line to comment on it, but OF COURSE Tachibana’s like Hey Sure He Unsealed Monsters From Eternity But Who Among Us Is Without Sin. !!!!!!!!! Tachibana! You absolutely can judge this dude for letting loose apocalyptic monsters because he missed his wife! I know that you lack any sense of perspective, but have some goddamn perspective my dude.

Yeah, this is tokusatsu. It's a form of fantasy fiction, so scientific stuff would be much grander and super accomplished compared to real life ones to compete or give extravagant stuff as much as the magical stuff does. Kuuga is one of those that tries to stay grounded, though still more than real life ones. Kenzaki shows his self from the beginning of the series again; it's in him, when there are others causing trouble, his form of calling them out will be uncontrollably screaming and yelling at them. Though yeah, finally, you did mention here Tachibana does things for their own good (if fighting), unlike his self up to ep. 15, he fought for himself that time (and for SAYOKOOOO). For the last one, do you mean about Tachibana insisting to let the one that causes trouble (Yoshito unsealing the monsters) to make up for it as he's responsible instead of others making up for it (Kenzaki doing BOARD's job of sealing Undeads)? Yeah... Tachibana wants to punish Yoshito, but the Undeads still can't be kept unchecked.

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

So, our central dilemma. With the power Kenzaki has to defeat the Undead, he risks becoming another Joker. DOUBLEJOKER, indeed.

He may have a lack of interest in the powers of a Rider, but he needs the Rider's power to save others, to become a hero even if it's against what he wants. And moreover, if the later enemies are getting stronger and stronger, he needs to use King to beat them down, again, against his wants. Rider power just seems necessary, it's like the only way here, someone that has Rider sensibility can contribute and put that words into actions, which normal humans like Keitaro from Faiz was mostly unable to do. Though actually this episode displays some of it, with Kenzaki having maniacal laugh when fighting the other Riders. But hey still! Like I and others say, the way to implement superior final form in an interesting way, so that other forms won't be obscure, is giving it a drawback!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

It must be so easy to be Undad. You can be the sketchiest, least-trustworthy dude in existence, and you can still easily trick dopes like Tachibana and Mutsuki. (Also, does Tachibana think you analyze blood by watching it slowly spin? Like, does he think if he stares hard enough he’ll see a platelet or a DNA strand or something? I’m beginning to see why Karasuma moved him from research to field agent!)

Tokusatsu science, if they made Yoshito analyze blood by watching it spin, then so be it. For Tachibana, here he seems to possess Kenzaki's ideals too, but he faced worse consequence than Kenzaki. He said here, he only wants to save Kenzaki, and also he wants to turn back Yoshito into Hirose's good dad (that moment when you address both father and daughter, by their family name "Hirose-san", dunno it just stings to me and made me laugh a bit with headcannon perceived confusion "which Hirose do you refer to?", especially when back to back "Hirose, I want you to become Hirose's good dad again"), but his trust was misplaced, it actually backfired for Tachibana, he helped him accomplish his plan to have Kenzaki become Joker, and use him for eternal life analysis. You said yes for "the hero has to put themselves at risk for something that know could backfire but believe it's still worth it" (from what Tachibana said, it could be like that too for him, but it's to Yoshito where Kenzaki is to Hajime), but here, it surely not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

I don’t… I wish the show put more effort into explaining why Kenzaki would take up King Form after just being told of the horrific consequences.

Kenzaki turning into King Form here feels a bit forced to me too, it seems like he's pettier here, Kenzaki is OOC, he only wants to turn into King so that he can pummel someone who is/was an ally (or not deserve killing) but attacking you to save yourself? I don't think he's nowhere near that savage and probably should think for more peaceful solution before going to King, which should be the very last resort.... which likely won't happen anyway as....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Mutsuki, the Rider who is possessed by a spider monster from eternity. It’s so specific that it has to be on purpose. I like to think it signifies how much Mutsuki accepts his role, while everyone else feels frustrated or conflicted about theirs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

There’s some big-picture stuff I like, though. I like having this episode end with Hajime trying to save Kenzaki from becoming a rampaging monster, a nice inversion of the previous storyline. And, come on, Wild Chalice knocking out Leangle, the strongest Rider, with one punch?! A+.

.... as Leangle was the strongest, until other Riders get their upgrades. Leangle was only the strongest between the Rider's Ace forms (name of Blade's base forms), but in the series, he doesn't have any access to upgraded forms, while other Riders (Wild Chalice) does, leaving Leangle behind which leads to Mutsuki's state right now. Mutsuki didn't accept his role, when he saw how the others become better than him, the evil will of the Spider Undead managed to corrupt Mutsuki. But Mutsuki stilll can show tiny resistance to it, when he prevented his corrupted self doing anything to Nozomi, that's a show of it. Unless you meant Mutsuki being enthusiastic to be a Rider, which his normal self did show.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

I still 100% do not like Kenzaki voluntarily using King Form to fight Leangle, but it ended in a good enough place for me to sort-of forgive it. Sloppy setup, good resolution.

Both Kenzaki and Hajime are Jokers (potential for former), and Hajime did overcame it in the beginning of episode, so it's natural of Kenzaki to be able to do that too, as the same breed of species. And yeah, Kenzaki's caring for Hajime finally paid off here, with Hajime being concerned for him (and Tachibana mistaking Hajime for doing anything malicious to Kenzaki's KOed body and attacked him!) and returning the favor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Finally… ugh. It was never Undad, it was U.N.D.A.D. He’s a robot that thinks he’s Undad, which maybe makes his whole character even more pointless to me?

The real deal is, actually the man in suit who speaks to Undad (yeah, your nickname is coincidentally accurate, the current Yoshito is truly an Undead, man-made one that is, he's Trial B, created in Yoshito's image, who is a dad of Hirose. Undad intensifies). Pay more attention to that man in suit, especially regarding your assumption here about "he was programmed to think he was a deceased crazy man" (obviously won't spoil).

[Fish Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

There's a chance that Fish comes in with a more accurate translation of what Tachibana is saying to Kenzaki here, when he tells him they shouldn't/can't judge U.N.D.A.D. for his crimes.

Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in!

I assume you mean this?



「だが、人の過ちを正せるのは、同じ人だけだ」

Because, yeah, Excite! played a little loose with this line. Tachibana argument here is that, while U.N.D.A.D. did wrong, "the only person who can correct someone's mistakes is that same person", which... does not exactly make Dadi look any smarter about this. This isn't a guy whose attitude and behavior screams of someone just looking for redemption. Maybe Tachibana is just projecting?

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

Yeah... Tachibana wants to punish Yoshito, but the Undeads still can't be kept unchecked.

Man, I don't know that he does? Certainly not to the visceral extent that Kenzaki does. Every scene Tachibana has had with U.N.D.A.D. has been with him showing respect and deference. When he pushes back at all, it's with an air of... almost groveling? I never really got the impression that he wants anything bad to happen to U.N.D.A.D.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

And moreover, if the later enemies are getting stronger and stronger, he needs to use King to beat them down, again, against his wants. Rider power just seems necessary, it's like the only way here, someone that has Rider sensibility can contribute and put that words into actions, which normal humans like Keitaro from Faiz was mostly unable to do.

Kenzaki doesn't seem like that character to me, though, that thinks that pragmatically. He's approached dangerous creatures with no powers of his own before. I think Kenzaki views being a Rider as an option to help people, not as the sole path.

[Kurona]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

Maybe Tachibana is just projecting?

That sounds like his default behaviour when considering someone's character, honestly! Why else would the CSM Garren Buckle come with this?

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

Because, yeah, Excite! played a little loose with this line. Tachibana argument here is that, while U.N.D.A.D. did wrong, "the only person who can correct someone's mistakes is that same person", which... does not exactly make Dadi look any smarter about this. This isn't a guy whose attitude and behavior screams of someone just looking for redemption. Maybe Tachibana is just projecting?

Thanks! The context of the rest of the scene/episode was not giving them a lot of cover to create a more defensible viewpoint, but your translation at least makes it less laughable. It's still bonkers that Tachibana can look at U.N.D.A.D. and be like This Caring Man Clearly Wants To Atone, but... I don't know, we're about six episodes past me being surprised at how dense Tachibana is in this plot. Angry, sure, but not surprised.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurona

That sounds like his default behaviour when considering someone's character, honestly! Why else would the CSM Garren Buckle come with this?

Hilarious, but also worth acknowledging. It's no surprise that this episode ends with Tachibana needing Kenzaki to give Tachibana's own speech back to him. Tachibana only understands the world through the lens of Tachibana! Everything is just Some Percentage Tachibana!

If I were Kenzaki, I'd've probably just told Tachibana that Team Blade was used to him almost getting them killed due to his poor judgment, so don't feel too bad about it.

[Androzani84]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in!

I assume you mean this?



「だが、人の過ちを正せるのは、同じ人だけだ」

Because, yeah, Excite! played a little loose with this line. Tachibana argument here is that, while U.N.D.A.D. did wrong, "the only person who can correct someone's mistakes is that same person", which... does not exactly make Dadi look any smarter about this. This isn't a guy whose attitude and behavior screams of someone just looking for redemption. Maybe Tachibana is just projecting?

Only partially related, but this is the point where I switched to TV-Nihon subs for the rest of the show (not by choice, it’s just what was on the site I use). Is their translation any better? Worse? The same?

[Fish Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurona

Why else would the CSM Garren Buckle come with this?

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Originally Posted by Androzani84

Only partially related, but this is the point where I switched to TV-Nihon subs for the rest of the show (not by choice, it’s just what was on the site I use). Is their translation any better? Worse? The same?

Blade was of the very first shows TV-N ever tackled, and I don't think it ever got a full redo like Faiz managed. I want to say without hesitation Excite! did a way better job (and it was clearly a real passion project for them), but to be as fair as possible, I've never taken a look back at TV-N's versions to know for myself exactly how bad they are. At the very least, it's how I and a lot of other people first watched the show, so it probably doesn't totally ruin the experience or anything. Plus, you know, it's harder to fault someone for mistranslating lines in the show where nobody can speak properly.