[DreadBringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BagJo

I really hope so, Faiz and Kiva are two of the best Rider shows that people always spurn. Seeing how Die has connected with Faiz, I've got high hopes for Kiva.

And about Toshiki Inoue?

[Kamen Rider Die]

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Originally Posted by DreadBringer

And for some others, the one you talked about having problems with miscommunications and misunderstandings? This irony is the main reason, because this show's main motif are phones, but they are so underutilized that they have all these drama.

Yeah, when one of the big parts of the premise is These People Can't Communicate With Each Other, viewers who are frustrated by characters who don't communicate with each other are... they aren't going to have a great time with this show!

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Originally Posted by DreadBringer

But one thing that I'll never ever understand, how did they only know their surname all this time, but didn't catch their full name? I actually would understand more if they don't know their names at all, but they call each other "Osada-san" or "Kikuchi-san", but never knew the "Yuka" or "Keitaro" part.

I can see it? I'm going to assume first names are as common in Japan as they are in America. (I mean, there was the whole story earlier about the two Masatos, right?) Even if Keitaro learned that Osada was Yuka Osada, he might not make the connection. I don't know. There are a lot of people in the world, is what I'm saying. For this reveal to work, a bunch of things had to line up. I liked it!

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Originally Posted by DreadBringer

Why do you even consider about the words from horrible people like (both Kyoji and Kohei!) Murakami, and especially Minami? Those words are their foundation of them doing their villainy, and obviously you aren't meant to side with them, because even those with right goal but wrong methods aren't one to be sided either (although some people will ignore the methods and only see the end goal, and cementing them as similarly good as the pure heroes - but the end doesn't always justifaiz the means).

But that's what makes them interesting villains? That they've got points of view? I think it's more compelling when you can see a kernal of righteousness in there (protecting your people) that's been warped over time.

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Originally Posted by DreadBringer

Also you talk about how the world hates and fears Yuka? I don't know if she has that as an Orphnoch, but she has been hated since she was human previously, in every environment, by her family and classmates (I can't call them her friends if they bully her), and I don't recall her utilizing her Orphnoch form except against those she deems as bad (and they're killed so she's still unknown) so I don't know about fear.

A billion cops tried to capture her over the last two episodes, and she's had multiple stories about people being terrified of Orphnochs. She's got problems beyond that, sure, but the show has definitely established that normal folks would be scared of Orphnochs.

(Also, "hated and feared" is an X-Men reference, since there's a whole bunch of X-Men similarities late in the show. Murakami is basically Magneto.)

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Originally Posted by DreadBringer

Well you did at episode 15 (and I defended her too, by making it confused if it's truly bad or just the non-tolerant audience), but not anymore, but this also proved your sentence wrong that because this is art, opinions can't be changed.

I'm pretty sure I ended up liking that episode through writing about it. Thought I didn't after watching it, but after a few paragraphs I realized I really liked it.

When I talk about people's opinions about art not changing, I don't mean that people can't appreciate stuff they wrote off, or hate stuff they once loved. It's more that I don't think you can get others to change their minds about stuff. People's tastes evolve all the time! But I don't think someone's tastes can be changed by someone else. To wit:

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Originally Posted by DreadBringer

I wonder what will you say to other people regarding Faiz outside this thread because this is perfect beautiful show, scold and chastise them? Cementing them as having sh*t taste?

Oh my god, never. I had a reaction to this show. Someone else is going to have a completely different reaction to this show, and I'd never want to take that away from them. If anything, I'd love to hear why it didn't work for them.

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Originally Posted by DreadBringer

Superpower? (I'm onboard with you on this but...) This episode just yet again, portrays it as weakness, when Mari made fun of him for having that kind of wish/goal. There's also multiple times that goal is talked down upon by her, Takumi, or iirc Kusaka (lol this one is obvious) in the past. Also as always, obviously real life people also can see that trait as weakness in someone, like for this series, probably point up to the Mari/Sawada moment which gets her killed.

I mean, Keitaro gets teased for having an unrealistic goal, but I don't think the show portrays it as a weakness. Just because some characters don't appreciate his dream, it doesn't mean the show is condemning it. Mari's been shown to be someone who's fiercely loyal to her friends and family, while not really been too high-minded about saving others. There have been a few stories about Keitaro trying to help strangers that Mari had zero interest in. Of course she'd tease Keitaro about it!

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Originally Posted by Androzani84

I think you’re going to love Kiva (when you get to it, of course)

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Originally Posted by BagJo

I really hope so, Faiz and Kiva are two of the best Rider shows that people always spurn. Seeing how Die has connected with Faiz, I've got high hopes for Kiva.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to it! (I'm looking forward to everything.)

[Sh Ranger]

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

So, this might not shock you, but I'm actually not into them as a couple? I'm still thinking of Yuka, first and foremost, as someone who needs to work on herself instead of having her fold her identity into that of Girlfriend.

Like, I think Keitaro is very sweet. But I like his sweetness more as someone who wants to help a friend, rather than someone looking for a romantic partner. And, I like Yuka's story being similar to Takumi's: someone doesn't really know what she wants, but is trying on a lot of different kinds of Yuka until she figures out who she really is.

I don't know. I can absolutely see how and why people would want these two to get together, but I'm more concerned about Yuka fixing Yuka, and Keitaro assisting that process.

I recall you saying how you don't think Yuka is in the right place to have a relationship while discussing the benefits of her newfound friendship with Mari so it's not that surprising to me at this point. She did just get rejected again by Kaido so I can see how maybe you think she rebounded to Keitarou. I think it's different this time though. They both know the truth now. Since the start, it was Keitarou who supported her. Every successful romance has a foundation of friendship after all. That platonic friendship has been growing for a while so it makes sense that they would want to escalate their relationship now.

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

(I mean, there was the whole story earlier about the two Masatos, right?)

Wrong! There are two Kusakas but only one Masato. That misunderstanding only happened since Mari asked for "Kusaka" which refers to either Masato or Ichirou.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

I recall you saying how you don't think Yuka is in the right place to have a relationship while discussing the benefits of her newfound friendship with Mari so it's not that surprising to me at this point. She did just get rejected again by Kaido so I can see how maybe you think she rebounded to Keitarou. I think it's different this time though. They both know the truth now. Since the start, it was Keitarou who supported her. Every successful romance has a foundation of friendship after all. That platonic friendship has been growing for a while so it makes sense that they would want to escalate their relationship now.

Sure, and I can see that. She just still feels too vulnerable for me to want to see her get anything but platonic support right now. I feel weirdly protective of Yuka's autonomy and identity!

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Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Wrong! There are two Kusakas but only one Masato. That misunderstanding only happened since Mari asked for "Kusaka" which refers to either Masato or Ichirou.

Good point! Maybe that's why they took so long to reveal that Onada was Yuka, since there are, like, five family names in Japan but a billion first names?

[Sh Ranger]

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Sure, and I can see that. She just still feels too vulnerable for me to want to see her get anything but platonic support right now. I feel weirdly protective of Yuka's autonomy and identity!

Protecting her autonomy and identity is a good thing for sure. It's good that you want her to get that basic moral support which Keitarou gives her without too much commitment so it's totally fine if you're not ready to ship them yet, or ever. We want our favorite characters to earn their happiness and I think she's earned that now. Whether you prefer platonic or romantic, her relationship with Keitarou is the best thing to happen to her, better than leaving her old life behind, like her journey in the show was a transition all leading to this.

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Good point! Maybe that's why they took so long to reveal that Onada was Yuka, since there are, like, five family names in Japan but a billion first names?

The two Kusakas are even spelled with the same kanji. Meta example: The two Murakamis, Kyoji and Kusaka's actor, Murakami Kohei, are also spelled with the same kanji. There's a surprising lack of variety of names in this show!

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Protecting her autonomy and identity is a good thing for sure. It's good that you want her to get that basic moral support which Keitarou gives her without too much commitment so it's totally fine if you're not ready to ship them yet, or ever. We want our favorite characters to earn their happiness and I think she's earned that now. Whether you prefer platonic or romantic, her relationship with Keitarou is the best thing to happen to her, better than leaving her old life behind, like her journey in the show was a transition all leading to this.

Oh, for sure. I'm much more ready now to see her in a place where she could be with someone else. And she could do worse than Keitaro! (Kaido, for example. He would be such a worse boyfriend.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

The two Kusakas are even spelled with the same kanji. Meta example: The two Murakamis, Kyoji and Kusaka's actor, Murakami Kohei, are also spelled with the same kanji. There's a surprising lack of variety of names in this show!

Weird! And thanks!

[DreadBringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Yeah, when one of the big parts of the premise is These People Can't Communicate With Each Other, viewers who are frustrated by characters who don't communicate with each other are... they aren't going to have a great time with this show!

Which is the general consensus of the series for majority.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

I can see it? I'm going to assume first names are as common in Japan as they are in America. (I mean, there was the whole story earlier about the two Masatos, right?) Even if Keitaro learned that Osada was Yuka Osada, he might not make the connection. I don't know. There are a lot of people in the world, is what I'm saying. For this reveal to work, a bunch of things had to line up. I liked it!

As already pointed out by Sh Ranger, it's 2 Kusakas not 2 Masatos. Also they already know there are people named Kusaka in Ryusei school, and she just latched on someone that responds when (randomly) called "Kusaka". But what I'm wondering is how Yuka and Keitaro got to know each other's names... and only just their surnames (I already explained, they know Kusaka's being in Ryusei school, and it made more sense to me than the Keitaro and Yuka part currently).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

But that's what makes them interesting villains? That they've got points of view? I think it's more compelling when you can see a kernal of righteousness in there (protecting your people) that's been warped over time.

Sure, villains can make legit good points (or accurate observations) about the state of the world and humanity in general, but that doesn't mean that the solution is to follow the villains' philosophies and/or course of action. They're interesting that way but god help I don't want them to be considered righteous (especially not Minami wtf) simply only because of that observations, and ignoring everything they've done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

A billion cops tried to capture her over the last two episodes, and she's had multiple stories about people being terrified of Orphnochs. She's got problems beyond that, sure, but the show has definitely established that normal folks would be scared of Orphnochs.

(Also, "hated and feared" is an X-Men reference, since there's a whole bunch of X-Men similarities late in the show. Murakami is basically Magneto.)

Like I said before, it's all part of Minami's schemes of xenophobic racism against Orphnochs (Kusaka but even worse). All of the fear is only caused by Minami. It's not publicly yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

When I talk about people's opinions about art not changing, I don't mean that people can't appreciate stuff they wrote off, or hate stuff they once loved. It's more that I don't think you can get others to change their minds about stuff. People's tastes evolve all the time! But I don't think someone's tastes can be changed by someone else. To wit:

Well, currently I see appreciating stuff they wrote off and vice versa as opinion changing...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Oh my god, never. I had a reaction to this show. Someone else is going to have a completely different reaction to this show, and I'd never want to take that away from them. If anything, I'd love to hear why it didn't work for them.

Because you should actually explain to them the real establishment of the series (like characters, etc.), who knows if this is just underrated and they got it wrong. Don't let the insights go waste. Just that be prepared because most of those are in the not working part, in contrast to this thread.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

Sure, villains can make legit good points (or accurate observations) about the state of the world and humanity in general, but that doesn't mean that the solution is to follow the villains' philosophies and/or course of action. They're interesting that way but god help I don't want them to be considered righteous (especially not Minami wtf) simply only because of that observations, and ignoring everything they've done.

Well, no, I don't think I'd call them righteous now, but even Minami (for all I know of the guy) probably started from a place of wanting to keep people safe. The Minami story isn't a million miles away from the Houjou storyline from the middle of Agito, where you've got someone who's so convinced, they are so sure, their thoughts like oil, black and pure (whoops those are Superchunk lyrics), and they can't see this new lifeform as anything but a threat. I don't agree with that guy, but I think we've all seen people so afraid of the future that they'd risk destroying the present.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

Like I said before, it's all part of Minami's schemes of xenophobic racism against Orphnochs (Kusaka but even worse). All of the fear is only caused by Minami. It's not publicly yet.

Maybe not public, but she's been in plenty of situations where she's been scared of people learning that she's an Orphnoch, and had to reaffirm her humanity.

Also, she doesn't know that the cops are following one guy. Team Orphnoch as a whole seems pretty scared that this is humanity as a whole that's marked them for death.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

Because you should actually explain to them the real establishment of the series (like characters, etc.), who knows if this is just underrated and they got it wrong. Don't let the insights go waste. Just that be prepared because most of those are in the not working part, in contrast to this thread.

I mean, that's all just my opinion. It's great if folks find some value in it, or agree with it, but I'm no more "right" about Faiz than someone who hates it. I'm cool talking about it if people want to, in other threads, but I'm not going to swoop into any post where someone slags it off to say UM ACTUALLY. I'd rather let people have their own journey with Kamen Rider.

[Sh Ranger]

Something else I noticed, so many characters have names starting with K.

Kikuchi Keitarou
Kiba Yuji
Kaido Naoya
Kusaka Masato
Kusaka Ichirou
Kimura Saya
Kitazaki
Kageyama Saeko
Murakami Kyoji

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Something else I noticed, so many characters have names starting with K.

Kikuchi Keitarou
Kiba Yuji
Kaido Naoya
Kusaka Masato
Kusaka Ichirou
Kimura Saya
Kitazaki
Kageyama Saeko
Murakami Kyoji

This is where I mention that the two main characters of Gaim are Kouta Kazuraba and Kaito Kumon.