[Locke]

Quote:

Originally Posted by XW1n5t0nX

Well that's the best part about the forum, it's all personal opinion. You say it's pacing is bad and certain things fall flat, I disagree because personally I never felt that way. Actually I rarely ever agree with you on any points you make in your episode reviews. But once again that is because I am me and you are you. Sad you didn't get into it as much as I or some of the others do, but hey, apples and oranges.

Yeah our Faiz watching showed how different you were to the rest of us!

[SPLIT LIP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

Ultimately, like a lot of shows, W's problem was pace.

That's why I really wish this stupid 49 episode min/max would just get lost. A lot of good shows get wrecked by the forced limit, and imagine how well W could ahve been if it had less episodes, thus less filler,a nd could be written entirely rather than episodes being aired just as the one four episodes away was being written.

This is another thing I have to wonder is a result, maybe, of Decade jostling things out of order, being a much shorter series One has to wonder if there were difficulties returning to the longer runtime.

W, to me, definitely ranks above Wizard because of the emotional investment it pulled. Like you mentioned, to me Shotaro's crying may be the single most believable piece of acting in Toku. Every character in W had some emotional pull for me, be it big like Accel, Sho and Philip, medium like the Sonozaki's, or small like Akiko. Yeah, she counts.

And Skull. I've never seen a movie exclusive Rider have so much lasting impact on the show, and yet never actually really appear.

Also, on the plus side, now you can watch Message from Skull and Accel Returns.

[Locke]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPLIT LIP

That's why I really wish this stupid 49 episode min/max would just get lost. A lot of good shows get wrecked by the forced limit, and imagine how well W could ahve been if it had less episodes, thus less filler,a nd could be written entirely rather than episodes being aired just as the one four episodes away was being written.

This is another thing I have to wonder is a result, maybe, of Decade jostling things out of order, being a much shorter series One has to wonder if there were difficulties returning to the longer runtime.

W, to me, definitely ranks above Wizard because of the emotional investment it pulled. Like you mentioned, to me Shotaro's crying may be the single most believable piece of acting in Toku. Every character in W had some emotional pull for me, be it big like Accel, Sho and Philip, medium like the Sonozaki's, or small like Akiko. Yeah, she counts.

And Skull. I've never seen a movie exclusive Rider have so much lasting impact on the show, and yet never actually really appear.

Also, on the plus side, now you can watch Message from Skull and Accel Returns.

Yeah I think if W didn't have to confirm to the whole arc of the week crap, and could have been more like Gaim, pretty much all of its problems would have been ironed out.

The of the week style worked REALLY well for W in the early days, but as it became clearer so much more was going on, it seemed ridiculous that Sho and Phillip were still running around chasing low level Dopants around the city. I guess it's a testament to them as heroes, but we really didn't need that crap like five episodes away from the end of the show.

Then - as you said - the length of the show really seemed to strain the show a lot. After Accel took down Weather, it felt like the show was lurching from climax to climax, completely unsure of what to do with itself and by the end I really do think it was a bit of a nightmare.

I won't argue with you on characters, pretty much all of W's characters were wonderful and that is something that far outshined Wizard. Wizard's characters were a mess of great ideas, but W's were beautifully drawn, fully realised, people.

The only real frustration with the characters is that Aki never really grew up, despite lots of turning points for her to stop being comic relief, they kinda wasted Accel despite being AWESOME and pretty much all of W's villains were terrible.

[SPLIT LIP]

Weather and Utopia were the only real villains to me in W. The Sonozaki's were good characters, but awful villains. The show seemed to know that, as Wakana and Saeko were obviously no longer big bads, and Terror had his own out in the show. That shot of him dancing and laughing as his world literally crumbles and burns around him is just great.

The villains also show what I mean about W being too long. Compare their time in the show, they were very brief, even though Weather is fondly remebered as a big source of upset. Had the show been shorter with less fluff, their parts would've seem much more appropriately substancial.

W is my favourite Rider show, but I'm not blind to it's problems. Some I can understand and overlook, but if I had the ability to redo it, I would redo it with a lot of changes, big and small. Thematically, W is excellent, but it's execution and delivery waver.

[Locke]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPLIT LIP

Weather and Utopia were the only real villains to me in W. The Sonozaki's were good characters, but awful villains. The show seemed to know that, as Wakana and Saeko were obviously no longer big bads, and Terror had his own out in the show. That shot of him dancing and laughing as his world literally crumbles and burns around him is just great.

I will also agree on all this as well. Saeko was my favourite of the Sonozaki's, I don't think I've ever seen toku handle a female character well ever so it was a great surprise, that she was a genuinely fantastic character.

Easily the worst was Wakana, she was just so inconsistently written. She started as this prissy princess with hell bitch beneath, then got into her incestuous love affair and became a nice person and then just randomly turned all out 100 percent evil at the end for absolutely no reason. She really wasn't worth Phillip dying over, it's like Kamen Rider Great Gatsby...with incest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPLIT LIP

W is my favourite Rider show, but I'm not blind to it's problems. Some I can understand and overlook, but if I had the ability to redo it, I would redo it with a lot of changes, big and small. Thematically, W is excellent, but it's execution and delivery waver.

I agree with this also. It's not a new favourite, but it's definitely a show with great moments that was sadly undermined by the fact that the show never seemed to really know what it wanted to be, and seemingly a pretty small budget. If they could redo the show, condensing all the key elements to a single film with a bigger budget, I think it could very well be perfect.

[SPLIT LIP]

Quote:

it's like Kamen Rider Great Gatsby...with incest.

[KyoryuGreen]

Agito 49- The Man of Darkness is a real pain basically trying to commit genocide slowly. His new Unknowns are more powerful then ever, this is a dark time especially with the police believing Hojo that the Agito's are the problem. Hojo is looking ahead way to far even though he might not be wrong he has no proof. I love Shouichi and Ryou and the parallel stories they have with the new girls, it's been very enjoyable to me. Hikawa figuring out part of the suicides was good, he is a very good detective which is awesome. 2 episodes left and evil G3's it looks like.

[Switchblade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPLIT LIP

How many secondary riders have been assholes right out of the gate?

'Cuz really, I only think Birth was actually a cool guy when he first appeared. Everyone else has been butt-chinned. Even Accel to an extent.

I want to say all of them but Tackle, G3, Ibuki, Birth, and Beast.

I blame Riderman, personally. As the prototype secondary Rider he kind of set the tone that most of them wold replicate.

[Locke]

Decided to watch more Faiz to prolong having to finish W. Don't want it to end! So episode ten.

Given the Orphenoch's motivations, the choice to now kill the "worthless" ones seems a tad counter-productive. I get that they don't want Orphenoch's helping the enemy, it makes sense to take them out but you'd think they'd train up the weak links in their forces, rather than just killing them. Although that sure worked as good motivation for that Snail Orphenoch, sucks he had to bump into Takumi right as he got the belt back.

I really do like how it feels like stuff in this show has actual cause and effect and isn't just chucking things at the wall to see what sticks. It really does feel like stuff is really coming together, already, even with the amount of dialogue in this show which actually says nothing despite pretending to be deep and though provoking.

I also really love the way this show carefully subverts expectations. The Orphenoch's are so sympathetic, so convincing as humans...that we actually forget they AREN'T still humans. It doesn't feel out of character when they suddenly do something brutal, because that is truly who they are. It works much better here than when they've tried this thing in other series.

Plus man this show is just cool. From making Juuzo a Kamen Rider (although short lived) to the coolest idea in Kamen Rider History - Auto Vajin, this is a show that satisfies on a pure entertainment level so incredibly given the shows age and the shows that surround it. Can't wait for that New Rider next episode either!

[Switchblade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

Plus man this show is just cool. From making Juuzo a Kamen Rider (although short lived) to the coolest idea in Kamen Rider History - Auto Vajin, this is a show that satisfies on a pure entertainment level so incredibly given the shows age and the shows that surround it. Can't wait for that New Rider next episode either!

As much as I hate the guy who ends up being Kaixa's main user, I will never deny that it is a fantastic suit that looks gorgeous in action.