[DreadBringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

My major problem with it is that most of the characters are so depraved beyond my ability to care what happens to them.

Doesn't this also can be applied to Faiz?

[PineapplePizza]

Kamen Rider Dragon Knight was boring as sin

Power Rangers Samurai improved upon the source material

Gokaiger is mediocre at best

Car Ranger was crap

[tomos]

Kamen Rider Dragon Knight wasn't all that, to be fair. I did tolerate it at the time but I think you could say it was too grimdark in it's desperateness to be taken seriously. I don't like Power Rangers Samurai as much as Shinkenger but I suppose the only things it did that were particularly bad were bringing back Go Go Power Rangers (Maybe another unpopular opinion but I do pretty much hate that song, it's unoriginal and not good for tokusatsu's reputation!) and it did just put me off a bit that they didn't have an Asian red ranger considering, you know, they're samurai! Other than that it's not my least favourite to be fair. Gokaiger I do have high but it still actually struggles to top my list of favourite sentai, I've finished Liveman now and Boukenger still seems pretty hard to beat for me even in 2020! Carranger I did at least prefer to Go-Onger, that just seemed to be a watered down version but I can see why people don't find it that funny considering Japanese humour can be hard to understand sometimes and I am used to Britain!

[Sh Ranger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

Doesn't this also can be applied to Faiz?

That's an interesting point. It's true that a large number of depraved characters is present in both my favorite and least favorite Rider shows. So why is that? Well I think the difference is character development.

In Gaim, most of the characters at the start have an ambiguous morality. As the plot progresses, they commit some pretty terrible acts, especially Sid and Mitsuzane who is more depraved than Kusaka. The show gives no backstory (excluding V-Cinema) for why they behave this way and makes no attempt to redeem their actions. Kaito goes from a typical brooding antihero to a genocidal final villain. Good characters turn bad and bad characters turn worse. Zack is the exception but compared to the competition, he's too weak to actually make a difference. It's a very plot-driven show. There's no room to explore the characters as they only do whatever the plot needs them to, even if it's OOC. This is most apparent in episodes written by Haganeya who is incompetent.

In Faiz, most of the characters are clearly a**holes, except for Kiba and especially Keitarou. However, they have backstory to explain their behavior and a big part of Takumi's development is learning to open up to people and be more like Kiba. He's also aware he's an a**hole which is why he does his best not to screw up people's lives. Kaido has a similar development, going from a selfish man to someone who would sacrifice himself to save humanity. The character of the main 6 with the highest kill count is Yuka and yet she has arguably the most sympathetic backstory and is constantly trying very hard to stop murdering people. It's harder to defend Kusaka, but at least he's committed to being a protector of humanity, mostly Mari though. The plot here is secondary to the characters as the plot is progressed naturally by characters doing things they would realistically do. It helps that the show is written entirely by Inoue who cares about the characters.

In conclusion, Faiz uses depravity to enrich the characters by giving them flaws to overcome and become more heroic towards the end, while Gaim uses it to degrade them and is pretentious in its attempt to appear more complex than it actually is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PineapplePizza

Power Rangers Samurai improved upon the source material

Agreed. I think Antonio is 1000000x better than Genta.

[DreamSword]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

The plot here is secondary to the characters as the plot is progressed naturally by characters doing things they would realistically do.

Gotta disagree here. The last third of Faiz is entirely plot dependant, especially in the case of Yuji. Yes, he was shown seeking vengeance in the early episodes, but he had long since grown out of that mentality. So him deciding that all of humanity should perish solely because Yuka is gone was way OOC, and frankly only contributes to the various reasons I dislike the last act of Faiz overall.

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Agreed. I think Antonio is 1000000x better than Genta.

This however, I totally agree with. Helps that Antonio is currently my favorite Gold Ranger.

[Sh Ranger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamSword

Gotta disagree here. The last third of Faiz is entirely plot dependant, especially in the case of Yuji. Yes, he was shown seeking vengeance in the early episodes, but he had long since grown out of that mentality. So him deciding that all of humanity should perish solely because Yuka is gone was way OOC, and frankly only contributes to the various reasons I dislike the last act of Faiz overall.

I'll concede on the point of Kiba. His arc was admittedly a little rushed at the end, but at least he redeemed himself just before the final battle I guess. The movie gave a better reason for his betrayal but not so much for the redemption.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamSword

This however, I totally agree with. Helps that Antonio is currently my favorite Gold Ranger.

Yay! In Power Rangers, Antonio is probably tied with Levi as my favorite Gold Ranger as well. Intriguingly, they're both musicians.

[MaskedRiderAsakura]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

That's an interesting point. It's true that a large number of depraved characters is present in both my favorite and least favorite Rider shows. So why is that? Well I think the difference is character development.

In Gaim, most of the characters at the start have an ambiguous morality. As the plot progresses, they commit some pretty terrible acts, especially Sid and Mitsuzane who is more depraved than Kusaka. The show gives no backstory (excluding V-Cinema) for why they behave this way and makes no attempt to redeem their actions. Kaito goes from a typical brooding antihero to a genocidal final villain. Good characters turn bad and bad characters turn worse. Zack is the exception but compared to the competition, he's too weak to actually make a difference. It's a very plot-driven show. There's no room to explore the characters as they only do whatever the plot needs them to, even if it's OOC. This is most apparent in episodes written by Haganeya who is incompetent.

I have to disagree here. I don't think anybody in Gaim necessarily acted out of character, rather the circumstances around them changed, so they adapted, for better or worse.

Kaito doesn't really believe in the traditional concept of "right" and "wrong", or at the very least, it's completely irrelevant to him. The only thing that matters is who is in charge. But he also resents this because it's what led to the death of his parents.

At first, Kaito acts in accordance with this philosophy because he has no other choice, it's either be the one on top or be oppressed by those in power. He also believes going out of your way to protect the weak makes you weaker. For Kaito, the only thing that matters is staying on top, though he has considerable respect for the people he considers to be strong (such as Kouta and Mai, in her own way).

But his end goal changes when the power to literally shape the world is within his grasp. Now he can make the world become one where the weak are protected by the strong, but to him, that requires tearing down what came before because the systems of oppression, power structures and hierarchies are already set into place. He always craved power, but what he craved that power for changed when he realized what was realistically within his means.

Micchy is another character whose goals largely remain the same throughout the series, but what changes is who those goals are meant to serve and the information made available to him.

Micchy wants to protect those he cares about. The problem is who he cares about (or at the very least, who is indisposable to him) shifts drastically throughout the course of the series. He's also pragmatic and selfish, so he's willing to let others die if it means protecting what's important to him personally. At first, it's his friends and his brother. Then it's just his brother, Kouta and Mai. Then it's just Mai. Micchy aligns with whomever is currently in power strictly for pragmatic reasons. If he can keep whoever he cares about at the time close, he can keep them out of the harm of whatever oppressive power he happens to be serving at the time (at least in his twisted mindis.


Micchy's biggest character flaw is that he genuinely believes he's the hero of the story that's keeping his friends out of harm's way, even if they don't necessarily need or want his protection. While Takatora believes that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, Micchy believes the needs of HIS few outweigh the needs of the many because of how warped his perception of heroism is.

[Sh Ranger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaskedRiderAsakura

I have to disagree here. I don't think anybody in Gaim necessarily acted out of character, rather the circumstances around them changed, so they adapted, for better or worse.

You're welcome to disagree. It wouldn't be an unpopular opinion otherwise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaskedRiderAsakura

Kaito doesn't really believe in the traditional concept of "right" and "wrong", or at the very least, it's completely irrelevant to him. The only thing that matters is who is in charge. But he also resents this because it's what led to the death of his parents.

At first, Kaito acts in accordance with this philosophy because he has no other choice, it's either be the one on top or be oppressed by those in power. He also believes going out of your way to protect the weak makes you weaker. For Kaito, the only thing that matters is staying on top, though he has considerable respect for the people he considers to be strong (such as Kouta and Mai, in her own way).

But his end goal changes when the power to literally shape the world is within his grasp. Now he can make the world become one where the weak are protected by the strong, but to him, that requires tearing down what came before because the systems of oppression, power structures and hierarchies are already set into place. He always craved power, but what he craved that power for changed when he realized what was realistically within his means.

See, the stuff with Kaito's abusive father and the death of his mother is exactly the kind of backstory that should've been in the show, before he declared his intent to destroy humanity. Regardless of his noble intentions, the end doesn't justify the means. Making a better world isn't worth sacrificing all the innocent lives as well and I was hoping that all his experience up to that point would have led him to that conclusion.

Kouta's and Kaito's showdown seemed inevitable but it shouldn't have been the final battle. Kaito wasn't given a chance to redeem himself, like Kiba was. They could have teamed up to destroy Mitsuzane, as Takumi and Kiba did against the King. It's a shame for Kaito to have his philosophy challenged so many times only for him to become the final villain anyway. It's just not very consistent. Destroying humanity was Horobi's goal from the start and it was clear he was starting to doubt himself and lose faith in his philosophy. That's how I believe such an arc should be executed, with an antivillain reforming himself as hero.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaskedRiderAsakura

Micchy is another character whose goals largely remain the same throughout the series, but what changes is who those goals are meant to serve and the information made available to him.

Micchy wants to protect those he cares about. The problem is who he cares about (or at the very least, who is indisposable to him) shifts drastically throughout the course of the series. He's also pragmatic and selfish, so he's willing to let others die if it means protecting what's important to him personally. At first, it's his friends and his brother. Then it's just his brother, Kouta and Mai. Then it's just Mai. Micchy aligns with whomever is currently in power strictly for pragmatic reasons. If he can keep whoever he cares about at the time close, he can keep them out of the harm of whatever oppressive power he happens to be serving at the time (at least in his twisted mindis.

Micchy's biggest character flaw is that he genuinely believes he's the hero of the story that's keeping his friends out of harm's way, even if they don't necessarily need or want his protection. While Takatora believes that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, Micchy believes the needs of HIS few outweigh the needs of the many because of how warped his perception of heroism is.

That's not really the take I had at all. I think Mitsuzane is the most depraved character in KR and I cannot forgive him for all those terrible things he did to people who cared about him. You're right that his goals remain the same though. He's driven by greed and lust, pretending to be affable, manipulating his brother and "friends" to get whatever the hell he wants.

He has no redeeming qualities. The only reason the show redeemed him was cause the show needed him to and his sudden heroism in the finale, which was written by Haganeya, was OOC since he had nothing to gain, no incentive to start being a "good guy". When he joined in the speech in Movie War Full Throttle about the importance of free will, it was hollow. I believe he cares about free will, as long as he can manipulate it. I cannot wrap my head around the idea that until the Knuckle movie, this guy was supposed to be "the last hero of Zawame City". I just can't take that seriously.

[Androzani84]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

You're welcome to disagree. It wouldn't be an unpopular opinion otherwise.



See, the stuff with Kaito's abusive father and the death of his mother is exactly the kind of backstory that should've been in the show, before he declared his intent to destroy humanity. Regardless of his noble intentions, the end doesn't justify the means. Making a better world isn't worth sacrificing all the innocent lives as well and I was hoping that all his experience up to that point would have led him to that conclusion.

Kouta's and Kaito's showdown seemed inevitable but it shouldn't have been the final battle. Kaito wasn't given a chance to redeem himself, like Kiba was. They could have teamed up to destroy Mitsuzane, as Takumi and Kiba did against the King. It's a shame for Kaito to have his philosophy challenged so many times only for him to become the final villain anyway. It's just not very consistent. Destroying humanity was Horobi's goal from the start and it was clear he was starting to doubt himself and lose faith in his philosophy. That's how I believe such an arc should be executed, with an antivillain reforming himself as hero.

That’s kind of against the whole point of his character though. He’s meant to be the type of character who actually holds onto his unhealthy beliefs, as opposed to the cliche of giving them up just because of a sappy speech. Which is a lot more realistic and fresh than, say, Ryusei basically deciding to embrace friendship just because Gentaro let himself get stabbed.

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That's not really the take I had at all. I think Mitsuzane is the most depraved character in KR

Based on what? This franchise is full of serial killers, sexual predators and wannabe omnicidal maniacs. The same series had a character nuking America.. Micchy’s worst vice is that he’s a control freak and that only really starts when he finds out the world is doomed, I’d probably go crazy if I found out the world was going to end.

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He has no redeeming qualities. The only reason the show redeemed him was cause the show needed him to and his sudden heroism in the finale, which was written by Haganeya, was OOC since he had nothing to gain[

No redeeming qualities? The due goes nuts so he can save the people he loves and his antagonism towards Kouta is very clearly a mid-season development, rather than something he’s been holding onto since forever. And also there’s this new concept. It’s called “forgiveness.” Everyone’s done something terrible, it’s a fact of life. But we don’t send everyone to the execution block over one bad deed. We give them a chance to make up for it, and if they are t willing to do it, THEN we condemn them.

[PineapplePizza]

Since I’m watching Zyuranger.

Burai’s story is dumb and makes no sense. He knows Geki was taken by the King and Queen of the Yamato tribe and when their father stages a coup and is killed in a duel by the King and demands Burai to avenge him and he takes it out on Geki, who he again knows had no say in being raised as royalty. Just....what? It would make more sense if Burai didn’t know Geki was his brother.

Also I’m amazed Burai was a break out character. He does almost nothing but show up and summon Dragon Caesar after he joins the team. Some episodes he doesn’t even bother to transform and some episodes he doesn’t appear in at all. The series treats him like a guest star at best (he’s not added to the opening titles but Dragon Caesar is lol) his death didn’t feel sad it just felt like “oh finally”’ Mighty Morphin is really dumb and preschool (in fact the show didn’t hit it’s stride until In Space tbh maybe Turbo’s second half if I’m being generous) but one thing I’ll give them is they handled the 6th member concept better (at first) Tommy hangs out with the other Rangers, he’s added to the main titles, Saban made the wise decision to move most of the Dragon Ranger-less episodes to before Tommy’s intro (there was one episode they didn’t but it featured Lamy who was introduced the same arc so there was no choice) and the Zyu2 stuff Toei film for Saban actually featuring
him participating in battles and not just a glorified mecha summoner! Of course Saban took the problem in the other direction when they made
him the glory hogging White Ranger..