|
Community Links |
Members List |
Search Forums |
Advanced Search |
Go to Page... |
|
Thread Tools |
05-15-2022, 10:08 PM | #1111 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
|
Hey, let's talk about What Oma Zi-O Means.
(I actually wanted to goof on the Chase stuff from this episode, but that can wait until later. I thought it was super funny, though!) Here's the thing about Oma Zi-O: it's not about defeating him. Of all the things I don't want this show to do, and am terrified it'll happen in the finale, the worst would be for Sougo to defeat Oma Zi-O, once and for all. The beauty of Oma Zi-O as a villain, and the thing that makes him maybe my favorite Heisei villain, is that he can't ever really be defeated. He's Sougo's potential for evil, and Sougo can't ever really extinguish that within himself. He can't ever Finally Defeat his darker impulses, or his self-loathing, or his Imposter Syndrome, or his misplaced guilt, because we can't ever Finally Defeat those things. He exists as a potentiality, as a worst case scenario. And yet, Sougo can defeat him every single day. Every day that Sougo makes good choices, and cares about his friends, and helps strangers, and doesn't give in to his self-destructive tendencies, is a day that Oma Zi-O never exists. Every day that we support each other, care for ourselves, and work to make a better future is a day that we win, too. That's the point of him, to never lose the war but always lose the battle. My favorite metaphor that Oma Zi-O fills is an addiction metaphor. Anyone who's ever struggled with dependency, or had a loved one struggle with it, knows that recovery isn't ever a completed process. It starts with acknowledging that the problem is internal, not external. (Like when Sougo meets Oma Zi-O in the future.) It gets better by accepting that the problem is something you can exercise control over, even if it seems like a part of you won't allow it. (Like when Sougo gets the Zi-O II Ridewatch.) The battle gets easier by depending on other people, by accepting that some things can't be handled alone. (Trinity Form.) And then it just goes on, forever, a series of daily battles to create a future that's better than your past. (I'm sure I don't need to explain this one.) I don't-- I don't want to say that your issues with this plotline aren't relevant. There's structural stuff that this episode maybe could've done a better job with, even if I'd need to have other people point them out to me. But Oma Zi-O's usage in this series has been an absolute highlight for me, and I thought this episode was a terrific showcase for his value in the narrative.
__________________
Currently working on: Go-Busters is next! Archive of previous shows on KamenRiderDie.com! |
05-15-2022, 11:08 PM | #1112 |
take me to space
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,406
|
Quote:
That Oma Zi-O leaves such an impression only a few scattered appearances, and some really thought-provoking interactoins with Sougo, is pretty special. Like, he deserves every bit of hype the premiere gave him as this super duper evil all-powerful ruler of everything and everywhen ever. I never thought or wanted for the show to ultimately end with Oma Zi-O going 'how can this be!!" and exploding. That he simply relents in his belief that his younger self only has one path ahead, the same path as himself, is already a perfect beat to leave on. Maybe Sougo might still turn into that overlord one day, but after everything he's been through, there's an optimism that he'll keep coming out on top at the end of the day, as many times as it takes. I do wish the show realised or remembered that he is by far the most important and interesting aspect it could be focusing on, as opposed to... everything else its been doing! Feels like somewhere along the way, Sougo's metaphorical and literal battle with his future has become secondary to the Time Nonsense Apocalypse, when it really should be the other way around. |
05-15-2022, 11:15 PM | #1113 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
|
Quote:
I do wish the show realised or remembered that he is by far the most important and interesting aspect it could be focusing on, as opposed to... everything else its been doing! Feels like somewhere along the way, Sougo's metaphorical battle with his future has become secondary to the Time Nonsense Apocalypse, when it really should be the other way around.
I wonder if I'll feel a little better about Swartz, in retrospect. Him as some weird distraction from the ways Sougo's become a better man, the catalyst for Sougo to become his best self instead of the required despot... I don't know, maybe someday I'll like Swartz.
__________________
Currently working on: Go-Busters is next! Archive of previous shows on KamenRiderDie.com! |
05-15-2022, 11:22 PM | #1114 |
take me to space
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,406
|
Quote:
I wonder if I'll feel a little better about Swartz, in retrospect. Him as some weird distraction from the ways Sougo's become a better man, the catalyst for Sougo to become his best self instead of the required despot... I don't know, maybe someday I'll like Swartz.
|
05-16-2022, 02:52 AM | #1115 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 2,548
|
Well some more production info incoming to start this off.
Originally, instead of a Rider, Tsukuyomi was meant to turn into a monster (this was at a point where the Time Jackers we’re also suit characters, which was nixed as “too Sentai”), but Shirakura suggested she become a Rider instead. The reason it took this long is because, as I’ve mentioned before, is because I they didn’t want to start her arc until they actually had a design ready for Kamen Rider Tsukuyomi (the brief appearance of a watch in episode 15.5 uses the design they were considering back then). And now, we move onto the Ridewatch Playlist. First is the watch for Tsukuyomi (which I actually own in real life) “The shining crescent moon-masked girl Rider is… Tsukuyomi” (I mean they could probably say more than that. I mean, talk about how she’s the type of person who’d never stab anyone in the back). And the song I went with is Tsuki no Michiru Toki, her song from the 20th Anniversary album Next up is something a little different, in the form of the Ohma Driver There are 4 bios here, all of which may sound familiar. “The Heisei Kamen Riders have passed through this era. Now, their power gives way to a new future. Rejoice, for the birth of the new king” “Ohma Day. The day of judgement marking the end of the Kamen Rider era. Is it the end of history, or just the beginning? Choose our future” “The Heisei Kamen Riders have passed through this era. Inheriting all the powers, a new legend is beginning. Rejoice at the birth of the true king” “The Heisei Kamen Riders have passed through this era. With their powers now gathered, the curtain rises upon the final battle. Open the way to the future of the true king” Only one page left until the end of the world. *side note, I liked them bringing back Mashin Chaser for this (mostly because I never liked Kamen Rider Chaser, like, at all) Last edited by Androzani84; 05-16-2022 at 08:21 AM.. |
05-16-2022, 04:08 PM | #1116 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,290
|
Quote:
Quote:
KAMEN RIDER ZI-O EPISODE 48 - ?2068 - OMA TIME?
The thing about all of these apocalypses that Kamen Riders work year-long to avert is that they don?t matter, honestly. The point isn?t the scale, or the intricacy of the plotting. They?re just a framework to build and explore characters, or to present themes and morals. Whether it?s a massive black hole or an invading army, it?s all beside the point. Fun to watch, but minor in comparison to what these shows are really for. Quote:
God bless this episode. The details of Swartz?z mad scheme fade to the background, thankfully, as we spend the moments before the end finding out how Sougo will finally respond to the choice he was given episodes ago. Swartz presented him with three outcomes to choose from, and Sougo spent two episodes paralyzed by them. All of them required people to be sacrificed, or they solidified a terrible future. Here, we see the culmination of a year?s worth of character development, as Sougo realizes the one weapon that neither Swartz nor Oma Zi-O can match: his friendships.
Quote:
It?s perfect, that message. The irony of a show about a boy who was destined to be king, saving the day by delegating and cooperating, is delicious. The fact that Trinity Form was how Oma Zi-O could be bested, because Oma Zi-O never had friends? I love it so much. It takes the four dozen little moments with these characters and forges them into a weapon capable of battling a god. It all feels like the best reward possible for people who emotionally invested in this show, because it?s explicitly about the inevitable value in connecting with people, how the future becomes brighter if we?re all there together. It?s everything Sougo ever said about making a future for everyone. Oma Zi-O only made a future for himself, and look how he got beat.
About Zi-O Trinity, it's also a sign about how the loop this time can be finally broken (so there's Swartz's scheme brought up here, but a hopeful conclusion), with how Ohma Zi-O didn't remember meeting Sougo at this point, and that Ohma Zi-O didn't remember Trinity as a power, so other than the friendship message, it's a sign about how, changes can finally happen for the cast's actions, despite the loop, resulting in Sougo not turning like Ohma Zi-O. Sougo has shown to learn something to not become Ohma Zi-O, from Junichiro, to not pretend everything is okay, to acknowledge he's lonely otherwise he'd become a king who doesn?t understand the pain of others. Which is who Ohma Zi-O is, still oblivious as ever, and pretending everything's ok including thinking he saved the world, thus he never understand the pain of others, while present Sougo has been scolded by Junichiro, partly also due to the actions of Geiz and Tsukuyomi, thus he's not like Ohma Zi-O and a change that can break the loop is made. Quote:
It?s the smartest thing, in an episode with a million smart Sougo moments. I love him getting one last pep talk from Uncle, and trying to hide the pride he felt from Uncle suggesting that Kamen Rider Zi-O protected people like a king. I love him stunning Tsukasa with a bittersweet embrace of a destined sacrifice. I love him giving Tsukuyomi the chance to be the hero she already was, but in a much more marketable form. (I?ll echo everyone I?ve ever seen in the SHF thread: Kamen Rider Tsukuyomi when, Bandai?!) I love how this whole episode is about people realizing that connections and empathy matter more than Time Nonsense.
__________________
The most complete non-wiki encyclopedias for Kamen Rider series (currently only found Ryuki and OOO's). |
05-16-2022, 04:21 PM | #1117 |
Standing By
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: USA
Posts: 2,092
|
Quote:
KAMEN RIDER ZI-O EPISODE 48 - ?2068 - OMA TIME?
It?s perfect, that message. The irony of a show about a boy who was destined to be king, saving the day by delegating and cooperating, is delicious. The fact that Trinity Form was how Oma Zi-O could be bested, because Oma Zi-O never had friends? I love it so much. It takes the four dozen little moments with these characters and forges them into a weapon capable of battling a god. It all feels like the best reward possible for people who emotionally invested in this show, because it?s explicitly about the inevitable value in connecting with people, how the future becomes brighter if we?re all there together. It?s everything Sougo ever said about making a future for everyone. Oma Zi-O only made a future for himself, and look how he got beat. I agree it's an awesome conclusion to Sougo's quest to surpass Oma Zi-O, by realizing that even if Oma Zi-O is the most powerful man in the universe, he's pitifully lonely and self-obsessed. Power alone isn't enough to change that. In the midst of all this Swartz-related Time Nonsense, I'm grateful that this show managed to spare one more episode to focus on what's really important. Quote:
Zero's Zi-O Weird Theory Ted Talk In 2058 in a different world, Swartz and Tsukuyomi are members of a royal family. Swartz discovers there are multiple worlds all out there and that his world is going to decay and be destroyed due to not having a protector while the others do. Now note I use the term protector because while people bring up the Shinkenger argument, the Shinkenger's while not being Riders still serve the same role regardless. They're like a Rider Expy, this world seemingly has no one in it to act like that. Now then to prevent the collapse of his world and be herald as his world's savior and king he wants to merge a bunch all together then have them destroyed so his world is the only world left but needs a catalyst. Remember at this point in time in Swartz' perspective, the worlds are split and separate with different Riders in them. They also don't deliberately say who belongs to what world which I think is the key to having a flexible mindset about this. Quote:
So he travels to 2009 and gives Sougo a piece of his powers, and as a result Sougo begins to draw the Rider worlds together that already exist, basically Showa to Kiva and probably some AR Worlds here and there. This essentially starts kicking off the plot of Decade where like, worlds are just randomly crashing into each other for some reason. This is where Decade comes in and while Decade is a mess, his role is simple?
"Decade has no story?" In a sense that's true because his role is simply a means to an end, a tool for stabilizing the Rider Worlds as he runs through the events of his "plot" and basically makes a semi-consistent but still messy amalgamation world of various continuities that aren't exactly in sync with each other. And thus we get the Main Rider World we've been with since W where seemingly every Rider is integrated into it. Riders from W onwards are born into this new world but it's not exactly consistent or stable, which is why there are slight gaps in continuity and things that don't add up but they're relatively harmless. But those gaps in continuity and stuff basically mean the worlds can't ever fully become one yet. That action was so powerful that Woz managed to destroy SOUGO's Heisei Vaccum all on his own!
__________________
心 と 刃 |
05-16-2022, 04:41 PM | #1118 |
Alias: ZeroEnchiladas
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,572
|
Quote:
That being said to address the Sougo part of this, 48 sorta implies from Tsukasa's words and Sougo's reaction that Sougo was pulling the worlds together subconsciously ever since that event in 2009, he wasn't actively thinking about it. As for the whole date start of Kamen Rider Decade and the date of April... I admittedly have nothing there. But if I had to guess 2019 me's reasoning for like brushing past this detail... and what I recall nowadays for the most part I really don't put much stock in dates unless a show has heavy seasonal changes. Like with Decade you could very well just say it happened post April 2009 in the span of like a month or a few weeks since aside from like a few outfit swaps here and there, there's never really any big like seasonal moments in the show. At least that's how I think my 2019 Self was thinking when he made this theory like nearly 3 years ago. lol |
05-16-2022, 06:36 PM | #1119 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
|
Quote:
While I've never liked him and never ever will, maybe the finale yet somehow will turn around every problem you've ever had : P These shows have had some greater and wilder last-minute comebacks for you in the past, I think. So here's hoping you face whatever the future (tomorrow) and come out the better for it !(?!)!
Quote:
Chase showing up just to have his Former-Villain Epiphany and then die was, honestly, my favorite part of the episode. I love all of the Sougo stuff, and I love thinking about Oma Zi-O's metaphorical weight, but Chase lying in the arms of Geiz to cap off a speedrun on his Drive character arc was so funny. I mean, yeah, it's thematically tied-in on this episode's story about the power of friendship, but the imagery (the way it's staged just like his original death scene!) is so on-the-nose that it's bizarre to watch. Like, Geiz just met this guy a day ago, and tried to cripple him with a logical paradox. Now he's like WE'RE Your Friends, and I'm like, what? What in the hell is Geiz even talking about? Such a weird subplot in this episode! Quote:
Quote:
I agree it's an awesome conclusion to Sougo's quest to surpass Oma Zi-O, by realizing that even if Oma Zi-O is the most powerful man in the universe, he's pitifully lonely and self-obsessed. Power alone isn't enough to change that. In the midst of all this Swartz-related Time Nonsense, I'm grateful that this show managed to spare one more episode to focus on what's really important.
__________________
Currently working on: Go-Busters is next! Archive of previous shows on KamenRiderDie.com! |
05-16-2022, 08:01 PM | #1120 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
|
KAMEN RIDER ZI-O EPISODE 49 - “2019 - APOCALYPSE”
It’s really the only way this show could end. Beyond the previous episode’s declaration that Sougo’s true power comes from his friends, or this episode’s declaration that the true victory belonged to everyone who believed in and sacrificed for Sougo, this series had a number of Sougo speeches regarding what the best future looks like. As opaque as this show’s plotting and logic have been at times, there’s been remarkable clarity in what the best outcome for this story was, what the ideal future looks like to Sougo. The ideal future is the one we all get to live in together. That’s it, really. It’s not about defeating foes, or ensuring Oma Zi-O never exists. It’s creating a world where people are safe to dream of the future they want to see, and given the support necessary to realize those dreams. The fact that it all looks like the Webtoon spin-off of Kamen Rider Zi-O is just a bonus, maybe. It’s cute. It’s a very cute ending, for a very cute show. The episode that preceded it was a messy pile of weird plotting, heartbreaking performances, epic action, and boring villainy. In all ways, this was the ultimate Zi-O episode. Geiz’z death scene, for example. The emotion in the scene is touching, and the long-awaited moment of Geiz calling Zi-O “Sougo” – with his dying breaths – was exactly as devastating as you’d imagine. (Are we all crying right now?) But it comes on the heels of a somewhat random Geiz sacrifice, and directly before Tsukuyomi decides that she’d rather wait until after Geiz has been murdered to turn on Swartz, so it all feels a bit tainted. The entire final battle has that same taint to it, with Swartz’z goal of stealing Oma Zi-O’s power being thwarted by, like, him not actually being able to do that? It retroactively confirms Swartz’z plot to be even dumber than you could’ve feared, which is not the ideal note for the climax of a year-long series. It makes the events of the middle of this episode feel arbitrary and irrelevant, an action-packed distraction from anything that makes sense or is worth investing in. But on either side of it, you’ve got this show’s expertly calibrated character work, as precise and dependable as a well-maintained clock. That little breakfast scene with Sougo and Uncle! It could be maudlin and funereal, but it’s warm and goofy and bittersweet and resolute in its humanity. (The bit where Uncle tells Sougo this can’t be his last supper, because it’s breakfast!) Just when everything in this show should be preparing Sougo for a death march, the wacky uncle delivers the key to victory, and makes sure that Sougo knows to bring everyone home. And then the aftermath, as we’ve wound things back to the beginning, to September of 2018. But it’s a better version of the beginning, a future version, where the lessons of the last year are built into the foundation of the world. Where the battles and rivalries of this show get recast as supportive friendships and second chances. Where Oma Zi-O still might exist at some point in the future, but Sougo’s support network has never made him feel farther away. Where everyone gets to see what future awaits them. It’s really the only way this show could end.
__________________
Currently working on: Go-Busters is next! Archive of previous shows on KamenRiderDie.com! |
|
TokuNation News & Rumors |
Figuarts/Seihou GRIDMAN |
SH Figuarts BoonBoomger Red |
Hasbro Licenses Power Rangers Toys to Playmates Toys |
Discotek Media Licenses Mobile Cop Jiban |
What's going on with CSM? |
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:25 PM.
|