[GrandComplete]

Looking back at it now yeah this is a good finale for a good show. But when it was airing I couldn't help but be a little dissapointed as Yuya Takahashi a week before came out and said that this will be an ending unlike any other seen in Rider and that made my mind work overtime imagining what would've what we got was good don't gete wrong. I suppose you wouldn't have that issue since your far removed from the random comments made two years ago by a writer to hype his own work. But I just wanted to share this

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nokination

No matter how many flaws I can point out from this show, I can't help but love it, I do feel like, if not for Covid that there could've been a better story, but what we have right now is still great. I don't know what it is about this show, but even after episodes like 28, I never stopped loving this show, it's not the greatest, but it's not the worst, it's a perfectly fine show, but for some reason, I'm much fonder of it, than even the more recent Reiwa shows, that I've seen people prefer. I don't have much to say on it as a whole, other than that, I personally loved the show.

Yeah, I'm a real easy mark for this franchise, so I had a predictably great time with Zero-One. Aruto's great, Izu's a terrific sidekick/conscience/foil, and everyone else was (at least eventually) very fun. It's a really entertaining show that sometimes gets out over its skis with its incorporation of tricky societal issues with kids show action-adventure, but it's hard to be mad at them trying to do something weird and smart with a half-century old franchise.

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Originally Posted by Enchilada645

Zero-One's cool, except for the job arc, you can never change my mind on that.

I wouldn't dream of trying! You had your experience with the show, and I had mine. We can explain our perspectives to each other, but I don't think we can alter our experiences.

(It's so good, though. The Smile two-parter!!!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrandComplete

Looking back at it now yeah this is a good finale for a good show. But when it was airing I couldn't help but be a little dissapointed as Yuya Takahashi a week before came out and said that this will be an ending unlike any other seen in Rider and that made my mind work overtime imagining what would've what we got was good don't gete wrong. I suppose you wouldn't have that issue since your far removed from the random comments made two years ago by a writer to hype his own work. But I just wanted to share this

Oh, god, yeah, I'm so grateful that I'm able to enjoy these shows outside of the first-run weekly experience. Not only can I keep the show in the fornt of my mind by watching it daily, but I don't have to worry about all of the things that go along with a show's weekly roll-out: the magazine scans, the tweets, the leaks, the whatever of it all. I get to just engage with a show and its fans. I am aware of my good fortune!

[Layton13]

Ok, time to write up my kinda complicated feelings for the show, which I kinda have shown already through the sporadic posts on this threat.

What did I think about Zero-One the show? Or, the four shows crudely chopped up and forced into the shape of the show Zero-One?

Because that's how the show felt as a whole. It doesn't really seem to fit together. Every arc of the show feels... detached from each other in some way. The first is fast and frantic with plots mostly wrapped up in one episode, the second is slower, more structured, and to some repetitive with two-parters, the third feels like a weird middle child that once more relies on one-offs, and the last part of the show is a continues story that hard focuses on interpersonal drama.

In short, the pacing and structure of the show are an unmitigated disaster to me. We go from fast-paced, to the slowest arc of the show, before speeding up slightly and hitting Mach 5 in the last arc.

There are just so many parts of the show that feel like they weren't approached in a "How will this feel in the greater context of the show" way. Instead, they were just important for right now, and quite frankly, it shows.

We waste a lot of time on things that really don't matter in the long run, prime example, Antsu-Chan. He's a character you could replace with Ikazuchi, and you'd probably improve the show since Raiden was severely underdeveloped in the show. And there are many points in the show like that. Another one being Vulcan getting an extension of his arc with his fake memories that really doesn't go anywhere and kinda robs him of a satisfying conclusion

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

SERIES WRAP-UP



So much of the MetsubouJinrai stuff in the first two-thirds of the show felt thin and unconvincing, compared to the depth and nuance of the average Humagear storyline.

My favorite run of the show was the Job War arc, easy. It?s the smartest set of episodes in an already smart show. The switch from pointless MetsubouJinrai punch-em-ups to the individually-motivated Raiders and Humagears turned each week?s storyline into a tense showcase for societal integration and economic anxiety. The fights mattered, all of a sudden. The conflicts helped explore a society that advanced as quickly as it could without figuring out where exactly it was going. They leapt towards a dream, but didn?t know how to land safely. I loved that version of this show.

It?s also the version that seemed to irritate almost everyone else, which maybe gets to my point about how effectively this show served both its themes and its genre. It?s hard to be a superhero fantasy that celebrates physical action AND a cerebral investigation into how societies codify intolerance into economic systems. Like, there?s some overlaps there, and this show was very clever about finding them, but too often it was one or the other. At worst, it was one or the other in the same episode.

Very much agree. I love the Competition arc for its solid two-parters, nice character development, and a threat that actually feels tangible.

Still, I feel it'd serve as a better arc one, with some obvious changes.

In short, the show feels like its less than the sum of its parts for me.

Aruto just doesn't leave enough of an impact for me in the long run, same with most of the cast. They feel far too passive for far too long, and it's honestly frustrating. The cast isn't terrible, but they are something arguably worse for me, forgettable.

And my biggest gripe with the show, the final arc and what it's about: A forced conflict that feels mostly detached from the themes of the show between two characters that are just dull to me.

And now it's time to unstick the things I wanted to talk about later:

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Because horrible people don?t come from nowhere, and that?s worth acknowledging. Gai?s a terrible human being, but there were things from his past that made this terrible outcome feel right to him. It's everything this show's been talking about with intolerance and hatred, how they have a root cause rather than an innate presence. This isn?t an episode about forgiving Gai; this is an episode about understanding him, and maybe seeing if there?s anything to be salvaged.

This is actually one of my biggest gripes with Horrobi as an antagonist. Horobi didn't come from his own experiences, he was always just a hate puppet for the arc, which kinda made him incredibly dull as a character. His hatred wasn't his own until Jin's second death. Which quite honestly feels incredibly lazy and as if they writers cared more about the gaol than how they'd get there.

He honestly reminds me of a certain One Piece character; One Piece spoilers incoming: His entire stick was racism. He hated humans to an insane degree, and eventually, a character in the story asks him why. Why does he hate humans so much? His answer was simply "Nothing." There was nothing to his hate, it was simply learned. It wonderfully shows how hate spreads through generations and will poisen innocent people, turning them into monsters.

This shows things like this can work, Zero-One just kinda... doesn't know what to do with the fact Horobi has no personal stake in this and manufacturers a reason for his hatred.

And now the second thing:

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The problem this time is that it's weirdly more about Aruto and Horobi, two characters who don't really know each other at all

And here is my second gripe: Horobi and Aruto, for all the parallels they pull between them, really have no business being each other's greatest nemesis. They don't really have any personal grievances that tie them together in the end. It makes this fight even more manufactured, especially when suddenly it's a fight that will decide Human and Humagear relations, which just feel... Why? Why would this have any big impact? I don't buy it.

So, yeah, I feel this is the final to a show I haven't watched. Because I don't see the proper build-up and tie-in into some of the major themes of the show.



Oh boy... This ended up more chaotic than I had hoped for, but I do feel it's kinda on brand for the show

In the end, Zero-One left a sour taste in my mouth and is currently 3rd least favorite Rider show, but it'll very, very likely get a bump to 4th very soon with the end of Revice.

I am however glad you found enjoyment in the show!

[Sh Ranger]

Since this thread is going on hiatus (just like the show did), I guess I'll give a few brief concluding thoughts on my experience with the first entry in Reiwa Rider.

Befitting its name, Zero One is a show that constantly flips between 0 and 1, lame and cool, smart and dumb. But that's what I can always count on, that even if I find a part I dislike, the part that succeeds it will succeed in turning me around. Episode 29 is an awesome end to an infuriating arc. Episode 38 is a tearful start of a redemption of a character for whom I never thought I'd shed tears.

One of the show's major themes is starting from zero and moving to one, a theme that was probably never more relevant than the apocalyptic year that was 2020. The present was full of perpetual despair, the future seemed like it would never come. And yet, the future came. I think that's the moral of Zero One, that even if the future is invisible, the power of hope and dreams will create the future.

I intend to post my Reiwa Rider Ranking next week in the thread for Revice's finale, but to compare Zero One with pre-Reiwa, I did enjoy it more than Zi-O and EX-Aid. Now I'm excited to see how Takebe will bring out the untapped potential in Takahashi's talent, as Reiwa enters its fourth season.

[DreadBringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

SERIES WRAP-UP

One of the most amazing things about the Kamen Rider franchise is that it can be about literally anything.

It's not KR exclusive. It should apply on many franchises that has each work as a standalone (instead of a constant sequel to previous ones).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

When you?re telling a story that?s condemning violence as the solution to problems, or that?s digging into topics like how capitalism puts the working class at each other?s throats, it?s hard to do that within the context of a superhero show designed to sell toys to Japanese children. The elements of this show that are required by its genre ? the costumes and transformations and monsters and detonations ? frequently felt like impositions, especially in the first half of the show. Too many meditations on how therapeutic technology should be before it becomes a crutch ended up veering into pointless battles. So much of the MetsubouJinrai stuff in the first two-thirds of the show felt thin and unconvincing, compared to the depth and nuance of the average Humagear storyline.

The MetsubouJinrai.net stuff, yeah, they too are Humagears, who also got character exploration similar to those average Humagear storylines (YMMV though), got their turns at later part of the series. Jin at ep. 25 (his first revival), Ark at ep. 36 (the part of him starting to act on his own), and Horobi at ep. 41 (when he breaks off Ark's influence, albeit retains his genocidal view and prejudice).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

My favorite run of the show was the Job War arc, easy. It?s the smartest set of episodes in an already smart show. The switch from pointless MetsubouJinrai punch-em-ups to the individually-motivated Raiders and Humagears turned each week?s storyline into a tense showcase for societal integration and economic anxiety. The fights mattered, all of a sudden. The conflicts helped explore a society that advanced as quickly as it could without figuring out where exactly it was going. They leapt towards a dream, but didn?t know how to land safely. I loved that version of this show.

For all the talk about Fish having unpopular opinion, you too can have fair share of it... including right here about the competition arc. At least in most of the fanbase it's divisive to the point that producer Omori in a producer roundtable discussion on the TTFC admits it's critically divisive. Though you do finally tolerate the final a̶r̶k̶ arc due to its good middle execution despite idiotic start, perhaps you'd like this more due to being even deeper in the themes it explored here? As here too, there are idiotic parts that kickstarted this arc, such as how Gai could've bought out Hiden and held the contest entirely on his own terms, not giving Aruto slightest chance to stop him, Aruto going along with the contest without making an effort to expose him despite Gai's cheating ways, and Fuwa gloats about the evidence about ZAIA's wrongdoings in front of Gai.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

I think this show was attentive to every character, which is a huge ask for a cast this large. Every Rider got an arc, and most supporting cast members got some growth over the course of the year. No one was a throwaway character, that I can remember. The problem is more that the show didn?t utilize everyone continuously, in regrettably obvious ways.

Aruto's a character that some audiences can feel overshadowed by other casts (often happened too for main character vs side characters - more like major characters that aren't main protagonists), especially by Fuwa here. But ironically this is a talk about how Fuwa's one of the characters that only got their spare of character focus in the series. I guess, keeping continuous focus to characters aren't necessary to be done, and what matters is the consistent quality of the characters. Quality over quantity, and Fuwa fulfills that for some people? Characters that have continuous focus are sometimes criticized as taking up too much screen time instead, and main characters aren't free from that (it can be actually the reason to prefer "side" characters over them).

[Frontier]

I think Zero-One was a strong way to kick off the Reiwa era of Kamen Rider.

[AkibaSilver]

Yeah, Zero-One, if nothing else, felt like it always wanted to make a stamenent on something big. It sometimes wasn't quite sure what that statement was, or how best to convey it through the medium of "Man in suit beats up other man in suit", but it tried. And I think, on the whole, it did a pretty good job. The action side was stylish, the plot side mostly holds up, and for our big first-food forwards after the look back that was Zi-O, it holds its own.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Layton13

Because that's how the show felt as a whole. It doesn't really seem to fit together. Every arc of the show feels... detached from each other in some way. The first is fast and frantic with plots mostly wrapped up in one episode, the second is slower, more structured, and to some repetitive with two-parters, the third feels like a weird middle child that once more relies on one-offs, and the last part of the show is a continues story that hard focuses on interpersonal drama.

Yeah, the first half of this show... it sort of has that Ghost thing, where it does a very quick run of a dozen episodes that land okay, but frequently punt on an ending in lieu of Now There's A Fight, and then follow that up with a slower batch of two-parters that do a much better job of excavating the deeper emotions of the world that's been built.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Layton13

We waste a lot of time on things that really don't matter in the long run, prime example, Antsu-Chan. He's a character you could replace with Ikazuchi, and you'd probably improve the show since Raiden was severely underdeveloped in the show.

I don't know, I think Assassin-chan works as an early exploration of both the life-cycle of Humagear Singularity, and also a deeper dive on MetsubouJinrai's lack of concern for Humagears. You can really only do that with a character you're not going to see again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

I intend to post my Reiwa Rider Ranking next week in the thread for Revice's finale, but to compare Zero One with pre-Reiwa, I did enjoy it more than Zi-O and EX-Aid. Now I'm excited to see how Takebe will bring out the untapped potential in Takahashi's talent, as Reiwa enters its fourth season.

THis definitely doesn't touch Ex-Aid for me - I can't imagine anything ever will - but this versus Zi-O? Man, I don't know. Probably Zi-O for me, I think. The plot of Zero-One makes a ton more sense, the villains are equally lame, but the cast of Zi-O is just so much more fun to think about. There's a warmth to that show, and all of the Sougo/Geiz stuff, that this show never comes close to matching, nor does it try to. This show's cast is more Wartime Allies, instead of Zi-O's thing of Brothers Forged In Battle. Not an absolute blowout, but I think I like Zi-O a little better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

For all the talk about Fish having unpopular opinion, you too can have fair share of it... including right here about the competition arc. At least in most of the fanbase it's divisive to the point that producer Omori in a producer roundtable discussion on the TTFC admits it's critically divisive. Though you do finally tolerate the final a̶r̶k̶ arc due to its good middle execution despite idiotic start, perhaps you'd like this more due to being even deeper in the themes it explored here? As here too, there are idiotic parts that kickstarted this arc, such as how Gai could've bought out Hiden and held the contest entirely on his own terms, not giving Aruto slightest chance to stop him, Aruto going along with the contest without making an effort to expose him despite Gai's cheating ways, and Fuwa gloats about the evidence about ZAIA's wrongdoings in front of Gai.

The Fuwa thing's incredibly stupid, but I honestly think the impetus for the Job War arc is perfectly acceptable. Gai's all about publicly embarrassing Aruto. He doesn't just want to buy Hiden and fire Aruto, he wants to beat Aruto so badly that Aruto surrenders rather than continue fighting for Hiden Intelligence. Which he does! It's a good plan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frontier

I think Zero-One was a strong way to kick off the Reiwa era of Kamen Rider.

Agreed!

Quote:

Originally Posted by AkibaSilver

Yeah, Zero-One, if nothing else, felt like it always wanted to make a stamenent on something big. It sometimes wasn't quite sure what that statement was, or how best to convey it through the medium of "Man in suit beats up other man in suit", but it tried. And I think, on the whole, it did a pretty good job. The action side was stylish, the plot side mostly holds up, and for our big first-food forwards after the look back that was Zi-O, it holds its own.

Yeah, it was a show that rarely missed the opportunity to derail a deep philosophical point about technology/intolerance/capitalism with a fight scene, and vice versa.

[Layton13]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

I don't know, I think Assassin-chan works as an early exploration of both the life-cycle of Humagear Singularity, and also a deeper dive on MetsubouJinrai's lack of concern for Humagears. You can really only do that with a character you're not going to see again.

I don't even disagree. I actually really like Antsu-Chan, in a vacuum. His arc is solid, he is fun to watch grow, and he probably was the most well-developed cast member of the first arc. My gripes only show up when you look at him from the perspective of the whole show. I can't but feel like the time spent with him could have been used on characters who were struggling for screen time and the like.

Less than the sum of its parts, like I said.

[DreamSword]

Was gonna wait until after REALxTIME to give my full thoughts, but screw it, here they are.

I ended up digging Zero-One a whole lot.

Before going in, I knew the chances were high that I would, as it had alot of elements that I'm very much a sucker for: Robot characters especially.

And needless to say, I know my own tastes because right from the outset, Zero-One managed to emotionally resonate with me in so many ways. From the action, to the comedy, to the drama, to most of the characters, I was all in.

Was it perfect? No, there were certainly many things I could say didn't work out for me(and I think I even voiced all of them throughout this thread), but really, I consider all of those things relatively minor in the grand scheme of it all. This show managed to give me the same sort of feelings I had with other seasons I love.

It all just came together so well! The characters were engaging, the plot talked about surprisingly real subject matter, and to me it always felt like everyone involved in the project were giving it their all at every moment to make something special, and I'd say they succeeded. The proof, I feel, is actually in what might be the worst thing to happen during the run: COVID.

I say "might" because, well, despite the obviously awful setback of, ya know, a global pandemic, it was clear to me that staff were doing all they could to still try and deliver something strong. The recap specials had some strong comedy and half of them still tied into the overall story, and the final few episodes, despite apparently being made up on the spot, still totally worked for me in terms of not only delivering on the major themes of the story, but some of the best character moments as well.

From what I understand, Zero-One is a show that is very polarizing among the western fandom for alot of reasons, but for me? I loved almost every second of it; Even certain episodes and/or character arcs that alot of people take contention with. If there's one thing that every era of Kamen Rider has managed to do, it's start off on some extremely strong footing. Here's to hoping the upcoming tie-in comic can capture even a fraction of what made this show so good.