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08-30-2017, 06:40 PM | #51 |
Oldtaku
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Atlanta, Ga / Portland, Me
Posts: 855
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I loved Ex-Aid, sad to see it go. I definitely think the ending was kind of a mess, but I liked some elements (not reviving everyone). Honestly, I think some of the final arc was rushed through due to ending at 45 episodes rather than 50. Still, what a great show.
Wondering now just how Heisei Build is gonna be.
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08-30-2017, 09:23 PM | #52 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: A Cave
Posts: 2,115
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Considering that this show had so much happen and a few episodes less than others, for what we got this ending was pretty good. Though does anyone know why Ex-Aid had four episodes less than others?
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08-30-2017, 10:04 PM | #53 |
WHAT'S THE NEXT STAGE?
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Oregon
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Is he saying that beating Gamedeus suppressed Masamune's BUGSTER VIRUS?!! And what does that even have to do with the power of Cronus in of itself? Heck, how can he even transform into Cronus if that's the case then? The answer Emu gave was WAY too vague & doesn't answer much of anything.
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08-30-2017, 10:17 PM | #54 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 685
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Just finished watching the finale... And I actually really like it.
Admittedly not everything was perfect, Cronus using the Gamedeus weapons was rather pointless especially when they're knocked out of his hands a few minutes later. But the fight itself was great! I always like a finale that makes an effort to include the opening into the final battle, and the fact that they made it nighttime to reference the opening even further was awesome, and the revolving/spinning shot around Cronus and Ex-Aid in their Rider Kick clash was fantastic. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On to more relevant topice: Quote:
But the reason why the Bugster Virus was there before Chronicle was because of Zero Day where the Bugsters first came into the world, and the only reason they could keep continuing to revive was because someone would always gather their erased data via the Buggle Driver. If Masamune's dead, and Poppy had her Buggle Driver II with her, then that means the only person who could possibly have one right now is Johnny Maxima, as it was hinted a couple Episodes earlier, and therefore, HE's the only possible reason why the issue of Bugsters being around can still exist.
In episode 1 Salty was Critical Striked by Ex-Aid, but was never shown to have been absorbed into the Bugvisor/Buggle Driver 1. And yet he then came back in episode 11, by just cultivating in the Christmas VotW who was infected by his virus at some earlier point. The same goes for Aranbura, he got Critcal Finished by Brave in episode 2, and naturally came back in episode 13 after manifesting from the VotW. Quote:
Never said it REGRESSED character development, I said it RUINS THE CONSEQUENCES. It dampens the meaning behind their deaths and removes the feeling of the character progressing forward after the losses they had. And we don't know either way. I'm just worried, as all. I'd rather they just left the dead dead, and move on from that. (We already had some issues with dead characters coming back in this show, we don't need this to have this happen to LITERALLY JUST ABOUT EVERYONE WHO DIED IN THIS SHOW....)
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We at the CR believe that the people erased by the game illness have not died. It is simply a symptom of game illness that makes them appear dead.
Rather than thinking that the people defeated in Chronicle are dead and therefore should be left resting in piece. The CR consider them as "game" dead, and are being trapped in a death-like state, like a coma or complete head-to-toe paralysis. So as Doctors they are morally obligated to help them. EDIT: TheGloryXros, I really hope this doesn't come off as me and others ganging up on you for your different view on the ending, I just felt that some of your points of discontent could be answered by the way I saw things. Last edited by Pineapple924; 08-30-2017 at 10:21 PM.. |
09-01-2017, 02:25 AM | #55 |
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 310
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I thought it was pretty cool that Taiga is starting to create his own hospital. I hope its successful
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09-01-2017, 07:18 PM | #56 |
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 783
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I'll probably write my full thoughts on the show at some point but for now I'll just stick to what I think of this episode.
As as finale, I think it's alright. It wraps up the events of the show while still leaving room for some future stories. The final fight with Masamune was fine enough and I liked that they mainly used the base forms for the fight, even though the reasoning for how they were able to keep up with Cronus seems like a bit of an asspull. The scene where they recreated the shot from the first episode was really cool. Both Drive and Ghost did something similar in their finales (though in their case they were refrencing the opening), but I think this is probably my favourite. The epilogue was fine as well. All the characters individual stories got wrapped up nicely and I'm curious to see where they will lead to in the V-Cinemas/Movie War Crossover. I admit, I was expecting them to revive everyone at the end which they didn't, though they did leave it as a possibility which I suspect they will follow up in either the V-Cinemas or the Movie War Crossover. They did revive Poppy and Parado however, something which I totally called since even when you ignore the existence of the True Ending movie, the way their deaths were handled especially in the case of Poppy made extremely obvious that they were going to get revived. |
09-02-2017, 01:00 AM | #57 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
Posts: 3,833
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Okay, for real this time:
Hey look, they even referenced the cold open from the first episode without having to shoot the entire narrative in the foot first. Eat s***, Gaim! I'm a bit late on this one considering I watched the finale a couple days ago at this point, but just to make sure it was still fresh in my head I went ahead and watched it again. Having seen it twice, I can safely say that it's a darn good finale to a darn good show. While there are admittedly some slightly flimsy elements to the final showdown with Chronus, it can't keep it from being an appropriately exciting climax. Ill-defined internal logic has ALWAYS been a thing in Ex-Aid anyway, from vague Resets that turn back time without actually turning back time, to Emu suddenly willing himself to not go berserk using Full Dragon with the closest thing to an explanation coming way later when Hiiro has similar problems with Taddle Fantasy for all of a couple minutes, to whatever the heck the Stage Select was (Woo-hoo, got one last Stage Select nitpick in there!). It's not so much that it DOESN'T make sense. It's just that the show is extremely disinterested in explaining what sense it does make. What Ex-Aid IS interested in is flashy action, engaging Plot developments, and a fun cast of characters, and that's exactly what we got, right up until the very end. One thing I really appreciated about this episode was how it puts that big action climax right at the start, leaving a larger than usual amount of time devoted simply to "boring", non-action drama. With an entire movie (and then another one with Build, and then another three...) to further wrap things up, you might expect Ex-Aid to skimp a bit on the denouement, but frankly if the show actually did end right here, you wouldn't hear any complaints from me. Emu's speech was great, the characters all got their own satisfying and logical new status quo, right down to Tsukuru, of all people. It's just wonderful all around. I can't even say much more about it than that. This episode was wonderful. I haven't thought a list out, but I'd imagine if you were to rank all the various Rider finales, this would unquestionably be in the top half, and I'm sure you could argue it being in the top three without too much trouble. -- Now, having said all that, I've still got the series as a whole to reflect on, so let's get to that. It's difficult to know where to start here. I guess the Riders themselves are as good a place as any. How about the villains go first? Ex-Aid seems to have a pretty popular pair of main baddies. Kuroto "Shin-chan" Dan is a living meme at this point, and I get the impression Masamune was a creepy enough dude for everyone. I must admit I don't hugely care for either of them. Masamune won me over a bit in these last couple episodes through sheer persistence. There were like, 3 or 4 different "final" fights with him. I have to respect that kind of determination. But between his EXTREMELY questionable business practices (I've ranted many a time about how baffling it is KRC got as big as it did), and an almost total lack of motivation or backstory, I just found it hard to take him seriously a lot of the time. Kuroto went from being a potentially interesting two-faced schemer, to a potentially threatening master planner, to finally becoming everyone's favorite pet sociopath/court jester for the heroes. At no point did he ever truly grab me. I'm not entirely sure why. Part of it is definitely his own lack of motivation or backstory, which was admittedly sort of retroactively, indirectly explained by him having an EVEN MORE NUTS dad (with little motivation or backstory), but still. It also didn't help when he spent an entire quarter of the series with the superpower of losing constantly, which would always somehow circle back around into a victory, not just in his literal immortality but in his plans too. However, even with all my complaints, I have to admit that both characters served their roles in the story well and were definitely bolstered by strong, occasionally scenery-devouring performances on the part of their actors. I absolutely don't begrudge anyone for thinking either of these guys are one of Ex-Aid's best qualities, even if I have a hard time seeing it myself. Then there's Parad. Obviously the way things ended up playing out he's not exactly a straight bad guy, so I'm using him as a sort of transition. I LOVE Parad. He's easily one of my favorite characters in the whole show. Maybe it's just because he reminds me a lot of Heart from Drive? I love a villain with their own, twisted sense of morality, and while Parad's values were often a little contradictory and/or self-serving, I latched onto him very quickly in a way I just couldn't with the likes of Mr. The Game Master because he actually has clear reasons for being the way he is. He's a video game character with wicked existential angst, a resentment of humans, and an inability to see the world outside of the rules a video game usually plays by. He makes sense, and because of that, I guess it shouldn't have been too surprising that Emu was eventually able to talk some sense into him. I wasn't actually expecting it until just before it happened, but redeeming himself the way he did was a pretty logical choice for his arc, and looking back I'm happy they did what they did with Parad. Poppy... actually didn't end up doing much AS a Rider, but, hey, she's still a main character, and I wanna talk about her. Especially since she represents a pretty big 180 for me. It's not like I disliked her at first, but I was kind of shocked how much I came around to her in the back half on the series. Once the fact that she was a Bugster started being relevant to the show (they casually dropped the information as a joke during the Christmas special), she quickly became a genuinely interesting character with her own motivations outside of those of the main heroes, culminating in making a big sacrifice that saves the day all by herself. Poppy's cool! I don't how else to put it. You just don't usually get this level of agency from a supporting character in Kamen Rider. I mean, I still love Onari, but when did he ever do anything that impactful? Moving right along, we have Kiriya. He's Kiriya. Duh. As for the main trio (yes, trio. Sorry Kiriya, but being dead for 22 episodes is a great way to become the "plus one" of the group), we have Taiga and Hiiro. I'm talking about them both at once because there's a lot of overlap and in many ways they're also a package deal. Two rather stock character archetypes that quickly developed the nuance needed to make them legitimately engaging instead of unlikable losers. Taiga backed up his edgy loner persona with a level of genuine skill and intelligence that was often downplayed enough you might not notice it. Bandai didn't forget to give him one last form, he just didn't need one. Hiiro, similarly, compensated for being a emotionally detached prick by having actual, justifiable reasons for acting that way thanks to his profession, and by having a strong moral compass underneath all that. Only his angst over his dead girlfriend could get to him to do anything sketchy, and even then he's doing it out of a desire to make amends for being a crappy boyfriend. It takes real talent to have your most selfish acts still somehow be sort of selfless. And then there's Emu. Emu has it rough. For weeks now I've been considering if I wanted to have a compilation of all the screenshots I've taken of him getting violently beaten up over the year to send off the series (I decided I'm eating enough page space as it is), but it's more than just that. On top of the borderline perverse amount of times writers have had him get stabbed, bruised, and occasionally just plain killed, he's also had to deal with a main bad guy who basically dictated his whole life for him from the shadows, and a head writer who frequently dictated he not be the star of the show that's named after him. All this is to say, I wouldn't blame you for thinking Emu was one of the least interesting parts of his own show. He reminds me a lot of Kenzaki in Blade. Not just in personality but in how he can easily get lost in the explosion of charisma that is the rest of the cast. And like Kenzaki, I find this a darn shame, because Emu is also a very solid lead who holds the show together even when you don't think he is. A lot of this is thanks to "M", who it's important to note was never literally Parad, outside of episode 19. All he did was make parts of Emu that are always there more pronounced. The result is someone with a little more emotional range than your average Rider protagonist. He's as kind and gentle as they come, yet is also extremely headstrong, confident, and not above lying to people to achieve a greater good. The way in which he redeems Parad illustrates all of this perfectly. Simultaneously shockingly cruel AND surprisingly merciful. That unique brand of duality is what elevates Emu so much in my eyes. He's someone who can both hate the guts of the bad guy he's fighting, and yet, upon beating them, simply make a heartfelt request that they work to atone for what they've done. Emu was always all about three things. Fighting fate, the value of human life, and making people smile. I suppose it's not hard to achieve this when your motivations are essentially a combination of Blade, Ryuki, and Kuuga thrown into a blender, but Emu is honestly one of the most saintly Riders out there, and in spite of this he avoids the usual pitfalls of being "boring" the way someone like Takeru is. He's a hugely underrated character and while it ended up being a VERY tight race at the end, I think Emu juuuuusssssttt manages to pull ahead as my favorite Rider in Ex-Aid now that all is said and done. About fighting fate though. I've got a rant I've been saving up for months now. Back before Ex-Aid started, I was under the impression "changing fate" was going to be something of a theme for the show, but I have to say, it's totally skin-deep. I never thought I'd (almost) miss Gaim's confused ravings on the subject, but because Ex-Aid never really defines what exactly fate IS, the whole thing is left meaningless. As far as I can tell, by Ex-Aid's logic, I'm changing my fate of being hungry with my own hands every time I eat breakfast in the morning. Hardly a profound message, but hey, at least it's applicable to everyday life. The word is nothing more than part of a catchphrase that Emu says to sound cool. Even more bizarrely, the show doesn't pay much attention to gift-wrapped opportunities when characters actually ARE fighting against something predetermined, rather than something that could totally go either way. Parad's entire goal is for Bugsters to transcend their role as mere game characters, and he personally even rejects his status as a villain towards the end, yet outside of mirroring that aforementioned catchphrase once or twice, little is done to connect this to any sort of larger, underlying theme of the show. Having said all that, it's not really a problem. Ex-Aid was never really about fate anyway. It isn't necessarily about anything, to the extent of all the recent Rider shows that have a simple, glaringly obvious one word central theme, but if I had say it had one, it'd be "death", and it handles this one significantly better than it handles fate. The show about doctors trying to save lives that deliberately plays up how "lives" in a video game come far cheaper. It's an intriguing parallel that justifies a premise that might otherwise seem pretty arbitrary. One thing I also found very interesting about the way the last stretch of the show played out was the decision to let EVERYONE, ambiguously (everyone who died to KRC) or otherwise (Kiriya and Shin-chan), have a second shot at life. This may seem SERIOUSLY hypocritical of Ex-Aid at first, but I think this is far more well thought out than it appears. I always like to say that Ghost was about "life", and the crux of that was the notion that people never truly die. They don't carry on as literal ghosts, mind you, but through their actions, their beliefs, and their connections with those around them, they continue to leave an impact. To get this message across, Ghost naturally had to focus on death as well, between power-ups based on historical figures and even, *gasp*, killing off some characters for real. Ex-Aid flips all of that completely on its head. Rather than show how precious life is by emphasizing how it can be eternal, it emphasizes how fragile it is. There may be a legacy left behind, sure, but when a person is gone, they're gone, and they can't just be replaced. Which is where the Doctor Riders come in. A doctor's job is to fight tooth and nail to stave off that inevitable end. In that sense, maybe this is what the show actually meant by "changing fate"? At any rate, where Ghost showed that death was not the end, Ex-Aid instead shows that death is not something you should lie down and accept when given the choice. And I think that's why it was important to leave the door open for the victims of the Game Virus. Because, simply put, Life Is Beautiful. If that makes any sense? I'm kind of out of my depth here. Kids' shows about spandex men punching people usually don't require me to get pseudo-philosophical. Anyway, that's... probably not even close to it, but I better start to wrap this thing up all the same. Ex-Aid was a hell of a ride. It knocked my expectations out of the park if you consider how worried I was this would turn out to be another Gaim for me. It's a show I respect even more than I like, thanks to the very clear heart put in, as well as the general sense of creative weirdness about the whole thing. The suits that were awesome and you know it. The crazy special effects for the attacks. The constant momentum of the Plot. It's nuts. I also like the show a whole lot though. I'm not too good at picking favorites so I can't tell where Ex-Aid fits on a top 10 or anything, but I was made genuinely, lastingly sad for a solid couple days after realizing I'd just watched the last episode. I think part of that is how unique an experience this show has been. This is the first time I've ever posted in every episode thread every week (and I can be quite verbose, too!), which is a level of engagement with the fandom I've never really had, even if it's just on this (relatively) tiny forum. We couldn't have asked for a better "water cooler talk" type show, for one, but nonetheless, and if you'll forgive me being a bit sugary, I'd just like to thank everyone for all the interesting discussions and opinions and whatnot. I know this is a pretty trite thing to say, but it really is a great crowd on this site, and I was happy to share such an awesome show with some awesome people. And, with all of that finally out of the way, I can finally say, once and for all... I'll miss you Ex-Aid, I swear, but we've got the the TV size verision of Be The One now and I'm in the "listen to the new theme song on loop for hours" phase of being between Rider shows, which is to say, I'm finally hyped. Build looks cool, and if it can provide half the entertainment Ex-Aid did week after week, it'll have done a good job. See you all in a couple days* for episode 1, where hopefully I won't have quite this much to say. *Well I mean, if I post somewhere else you'll see me again sooner but I'm strictly talking about- oh you get the idea!
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Last edited by Fish Sandwich; 09-02-2017 at 01:11 AM.. |
09-02-2017, 02:35 AM | #58 |
WHAT'S THE NEXT STAGE?
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,699
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This is why I think Ex-Aid and Para-DX vs. Cronus was the pinnacle of the show thematically. It was two parts of the same exact virus sample converging paths. One took a trail corrupted by profit, cynicism, power, and objectivity; the other went the way of hard work, innocence, compassion, fun. All of which draws an apt parallel in the context of the gaming industry as well. |
09-02-2017, 06:58 AM | #59 |
Darkury
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 22
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Dan Masamune may go down as one of my favorite Rider villains. He was a great combination of utterly detestable, incredibly powerful, and amazingly resourceful. I can't remember the last time Kamen Rider gave me a villain that inspired so much legitimate hatred in me.
I'm not sure how Emu was able to superman punch Cronus' driver like that, but it was awesome. I loved the final fight (all of the final fights, really, these last few episodes sure were exciting), especially the way they used their earlier forms - and that Rider Kick was fantastic! Ex-Aid's video game logic has never bothered me, I've thoroughly enjoyed this fun (and surprisingly emotional) ride. At first I was really confused by the fact that they still had the data of the game-dead people, wasn't that supposed to be Cronus' last f you to the heroes? ("Only I get to pass judgment on myself, oh and you will never be able to revive those people!") But I guess with him gone, nobody knows how to bring those people back, they can only stay optimistic that one day they will. Eh, I'm a sucker for happy endings, so that little bit of hope at the end wasn't a problem for me. (I've seen a lot of complaints that the ending was too family-friendly, so I guess many of us expected this season to be darker and edgier than it really wanted to be.) I liked how Emu respected the victims by saying their names and we got to see reactions from their loved ones. It's always nice to see characters from previous episodes return. I liked the epilogue, too. All in all, I couldn't be much happier with the finale. I'm not done with Ex-Aid and I'm so happy that this isn't quite the end yet. After two years, my love for Rider is back in full force!
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09-02-2017, 01:09 PM | #60 |
TAJADOR
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 114
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Cronus was the one who killed Gamedeus the first time. Given the show's internal "video game logic" it's not too far a stretch to believe he simply looted those weapons from the kill. Have we been told that's how it works? No. But we haven't been told he can't do that either. Masamune's implied before that Cronus has many more abilities at his disposal than we've seen, and obviously he's ended up with these weapons somehow, so fill in the blanks. Personally I think that's acceptable enough.
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No, no, no. He's talking about when Para-DX stalled Super GameCronus before they split. He used Mighty Doctors then to suppress him. Remember that Masamune is still a Bugster. He became one when he fused himself with Gamedeus and remains one even after they've separated. Mighty Doctors' antivirus clearly affects all Bugsters, (it vaporized Parado and Poppy; Dan and Kiriya were only safe because their Lv0 abilities counteracted it) so the effect from before Masamune and Gamedeus split carried over and his abilities were weakened going into the finale battle.
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Actually that's not true, in the earlier episodes Bugsters have shown that they can revive by themselves given a fair amount of time.
In episode 1 Salty was Critical Striked by Ex-Aid, but was never shown to have been absorbed into the Bugvisor/Buggle Driver 1. And yet he then came back in episode 11, by just cultivating in the Christmas VotW who was infected by his virus at some earlier point. The same goes for Aranbura, he got Critcal Finished by Brave in episode 2, and naturally came back in episode 13 after manifesting from the VotW. Quote:
I think the big problem is the difference in perspective between audience and character. Basically, the CR have taken the stance that;
Rather than thinking that the people defeated in Chronicle are dead and therefore should be left resting in piece. The CR consider them as "game" dead, and are being trapped in a death-like state, like a coma or complete head-to-toe paralysis. So as Doctors they are morally obligated to help them. Quote:
EDIT: TheGloryXros, I really hope this doesn't come off as me and others ganging up on you for your different view on the ending, I just felt that some of your points of discontent could be answered by the way I saw things.
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