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08-12-2019, 07:02 PM | #21 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
Posts: 3,833
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I do largely disagree, obviously. Onari is a character who's either going to click with you or he won't, but lumping Akari in with him? That's just mean! She was great. Everything about her that would've been annoying gets dropped almost immediately and she proceeds to spent the vast majority of the show being one of the most competent, active female leads Rider has ever had. Speaking of active, I also have to stick up for my boy Takeru. I just don't see how him sitting around waiting for the Ganma to do evil things is any different from Emu waiting for someone with the Bugster Virus to be wheeled into CR. Sure, he doesn't have the charisma of Gentarou or the depth of someone like Eiji (fun fact: every show looks at least 10% crappier when compared to OOO!), but there's plenty going on with his character, and I think just like the show he stars in, Takeru gets a lot of heat for no good reason. He always felt like a very human lead to me, and I appreciated the drive he had. He has this strongly held belief in the value of every individual person's life that I don't think is quite like any other Rider hero, and it was cool how he always tried to reach out to people, to the point where his primary goal in opposing the Ganma isn't even about simply defeating them after a while. The early done-in-one episodes were also something I always really appreciated. In my mind, the occasionally clunkiness of the hyper-compressed stories is no worse than the opposite problem of padding that can result from making them two-parters. The lack of breathing room makes them feel less natural, but the plots manage most of the same depth in only half the time, and the result is a really brisk first quarter that packs a lot in. Quote:
I could probably do a slightly better job writing that now, and my actual view on Ghost is a lot more tempered than it probably seems like from it (there are absolutely some glaring issues with the show's writing), but I put just about everything positive I feel about Ghost in there, and nothing's really changed since. Quote:
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I guarantee you'll love Kuuga, by the way, especially if you're actively looking for something different. Although maybe not as different as you'd think considering the first ever Heisei Rider show consisted almost entirely of two-parters. And come to think of it, having 11 forms probably would've seemed like a really transparent and gimmicky ploy to sell more merch back in 2000... Maybe this franchise hasn't changed as much as we think it has.
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08-12-2019, 08:01 PM | #22 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Hey, thanks so much for the response! I wrote a bunch in turn, but WOW does the board not want to post it. I keep getting "Post denied. New posts are limited by number of URLs it may contain and checked if it doesn't contain forbidden words." And that's if I post one paragraph of your post! That clearly was okay with the board! So, after spending 15 minutes getting any part of a post kicked back, I'm going to eat dinner and calm down. Back in bit!
EDIT: Literally the next minute the board let me add the whole post piece-meal. ROIDMUDES!
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Currently working on: Go-Busters is next! Archive of previous shows on KamenRiderDie.com! Last edited by Kamen Rider Die; 08-12-2019 at 08:05 PM.. |
08-12-2019, 08:02 PM | #23 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Quote:
I do largely disagree, obviously. Onari is a character who's either going to click with you or he won't, but lumping Akari in with him? That's just mean! She was great. Everything about her that would've been annoying gets dropped almost immediately and she proceeds to spent the vast majority of the show being one of the most competent, active female leads Rider has ever had.
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Speaking of active, I also have to stick up for my boy Takeru. I just don't see how him sitting around waiting for the Ganma to do evil things is any different from Emu waiting for someone with the Bugster Virus to be wheeled into CR. Sure, he doesn't have the charisma of Gentarou or the depth of someone like Eiji (fun fact: every show looks at least 10% crappier when compared to OOO!), but there's plenty going on with his character, and I think just like the show he stars in, Takeru gets a lot of heat for no good reason. He always felt like a very human lead to me, and I appreciated the drive he had. He has this strongly held belief in the value of every individual person's life that I don't think is quite like any other Rider hero, and it was cool how he always tried to reach out to people, to the point where his primary goal in opposing the Ganma isn't even about simply defeating them after a while.
For Takeru, his motivations seem both selfish (he would rather not disappear into glowing particles, which, fair) and generic (fight monsters, save people, help friends). He's not a bad hero, necessarily. I loved that he decided to sacrifice his early revival to bring back Kanon. That's a big ol' hero move and if the show had swerved away from it, I don't think I'd ever believe in Takeru again. So, I'll follow him for the series. He just comes off a little bland for me. I need some spice to a character that I'm going to watch for 30+ hours. Quote:
The early done-in-one episodes were also something I always really appreciated. In my mind, the occasionally clunkiness of the hyper-compressed stories is no worse than the opposite problem of padding that can result from making them two-parters. The lack of breathing room makes them feel less natural, but the plots manage most of the same depth in only half the time, and the result is a really brisk first quarter that packs a lot in.
There's absolutely a problem with padding in two-episode stories, and Wizard is, like, Exhibits A-Z for that, but I'm not sure cramming so much into the first few episodes, as we're supposed to be getting attached to these characters and this premise, was a smart move. Quote:
Actually, Ore Damashii was also partly inspired by a firefly, which have an association with spirits in Japan I'm not educated enough to properly explain off the top of my head. What I do know is that I love that Ghost managed to get a classic insect motif in there.
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I do not envy your position as a recent fan trying to play catch up with finished series that have like half a dozen DVD/Blu-ray specials, major appearances in like four movies a pop, online-original content, and whatever other obscure stuff is out there. The worst part is, I think if you were a fan in Japan, it'd actually be even harder to track it all down.
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First of all, as Tokunation's resident Ghost fanatic, I'd just like to thank you for really getting into the nitty-gritty of what about Ghost doesn't work for you in this post. A lot of criticism I see about Ghost is either too surface-level or too overblown to the point where it's hard for me to even process, so I appreciate you making a clear and compelling case as to what the show's fundamental problems are.
Thanks so much for your thoughts on Ghost! I love talking about this stuff. I'm grateful for your time, and I'm definitely going to check out that thread you linked when I'm all done with Ghost.
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08-13-2019, 02:20 AM | #24 |
I have a problematic type
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,427
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For Takeru, his motivations seem both selfish (he would rather not disappear into glowing particles, which, fair) and generic (fight monsters, save people, help friends). He's not a bad hero, necessarily. I loved that he decided to sacrifice his early revival to bring back Kanon. That's a big ol' hero move and if the show had swerved away from it, I don't think I'd ever believe in Takeru again. So, I'll follow him for the series. He just comes off a little bland for me. I need some spice to a character that I'm going to watch for 30+ hours.
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08-13-2019, 05:25 AM | #25 |
Showa Girl
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 9,064
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Literally the worst part about getting geared up for a new Kamen Rider series is downloading all of this stuff, and then having to go to the Wiki to figure out, hopefully without spoiling anything, where each bit of media fits in. Drive nearly killed me, because Sangou and Yongou and the Sentai crossover all happen between two goddamn episodes. A lot of my prep for a new Kamen Rider series feels like putting together a jigsaw puzzle from the reverse side.
I'll also be glad to tell you that for the most part, Kuuga through Decade you can leave all their stuff until the end. The only exceptions are Agito, Den-O and Decade -- Agito has a special that introduces his final form between episodes 35 and 36; Den-O is the series that by far hinges on the movie being part of its continuity and said movie (I'm Born) takes place between episodes 27 and 28; and Decade... also has its movie be kinda relevant, sort of, maybe? I mean it'd be weird to watch it after the end of the series in this case for reasons. Decade: All Riders vs. Dai-Shocker takes place before the final 2-parter of the series; between episodes 29 and 30. The rest of the pre-W series movies are either very staunchly AU stuff, a side thing like Agito's, or in Den-O's case they got like 7 post-series movies because they became a cultural phenomenon. A fair few of them also had HBV stuff, but once again: please, please, please do not bother with trying to fit every little bit of those into the continuity of your watchthrough and just leave them as fun things to watch at the end. Honestly to this day I still haven't watched the HBVs of Agito, Kabuto, Den-O and Kiva, and I only watched Decade's the other day. ... so! With all the continuity rubbish out the way, my problem with Akari is the problem I have with a lot of scientist side-characters in shows like this that deal with supernatural elements -- when faced with undeniable truth that supernatural things do exist, they instantly say "that's unscientific", and rather than that be a dumb flaw they have to get over, they just keep saying it. That just really gets to me because it's treating science like some sort of religious scripture; this unchanging truth which must be adhered to and doesn't ever alter. But science is very much a reactionary thing; if new proof is offered that disproves what we previously knew, then we have to change that and have to come up with new hypotheses and such for why these things exist. Ghosts exist now, Akari; it's your goddamn job to explain how they exist and why; not keep droning on about how it's "unscientific" until the end of the series. The only reason ghosts and ghouls are unscientific is because there is of course no conclusive proof in the real world that they exist; but you're staring at ghosts every day! You saw a giant portal explode in the sky! YOU'RE TALKING TO YOUR DEAD FRIEND! Admittedly that's kind of a nitpick, but... it's one of those little things that gets to me. Otherwise I actually like her enough. Last edited by Kurona; 08-13-2019 at 05:28 AM.. |
08-13-2019, 09:28 AM | #26 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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One of my biggest problems with Takeru is that he's a very reactionary main character. He doesn't really go out and try to solve his problem, he just waits around for the next piece to stumble into his lap. Remember, he burned through his first 99 days in about 20 episodes. That's a ton of time that was spent sitting around not looking for Eyecons.
And, okay, I'll play Devil's Advocate on this one for a minute. I actually kind of liked that, after sacrificing his revival to bring back Kanon, while all of his sidekicks are out there literally beating the bushes for Eyecons, Takeru's zen about the whole thing. This is the consequence of the choice he made, and he doesn't regret making it, so he'll enjoy the three weeks he has left. That's a sweet idea, and it never felt like a defeat to me. There's a serenity to it that I thought was interesting. ...then his dad shows up and resets the clock and we're back to the Episode 2 status quo and THAT just drove me crazy. There were stakes, and then suddenly there were no stakes and a new coat. I'm not saying they should've killed Takeru for good in the twelfth episode of a 50-episode series (although...), but they needed a better solution to the dilemma than "his dad gives him a do-over".
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08-13-2019, 09:39 AM | #27 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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This is definitely painful, though I will tell you right now to make your life that much easier, at least with the few post-Decade series you have left? Do not bother in the slightest with every single HBV and big crossover stuff in terms of where they fit in. During your watching of a series, only concern yourself with where the crossover movie goes and where the big summer movie goes. Only those will have any real relevance to following and understanding the series - hell, many of them don't even have that - and the rest you can just leave until after. Also, since you're going to be caught up relatively soon considering the rate you're watching this stuff? Fun fact: we in the west don't get the movies when they come out. We have to wait for months until the DVD is released and then probably an extra week for subbers to complete it and put it out. So if Zero-One's movies end up being really plot-relevant well, um, what can I say but fuck. I can only imagine the hell people who were watching Den-O when it was airing went through...
The only plot-relevant theatrical movie I can think of that I've seen so far was the Dr. Pac-Man movie. There's a chunk about Emu's origin that gets revisited a few times in the main series, and since that was the first Kamen Rider theatrical movie I saw, it might've made me erroneously assume that all Kamen Rider theatrical movies have heavy continuity with the main series. Which HA HA, Jesus, do they not. Quote:
... so! With all the continuity rubbish out the way, my problem with Akari is the problem I have with a lot of scientist side-characters in shows like this that deal with supernatural elements -- when faced with undeniable truth that supernatural things do exist, they instantly say "that's unscientific", and rather than that be a dumb flaw they have to get over, they just keep saying it. That just really gets to me because it's treating science like some sort of religious scripture; this unchanging truth which must be adhered to and doesn't ever alter. But science is very much a reactionary thing; if new proof is offered that disproves what we previously knew, then we have to change that and have to come up with new hypotheses and such for why these things exist. Ghosts exist now, Akari; it's your goddamn job to explain how they exist and why; not keep droning on about how it's "unscientific" until the end of the series. The only reason ghosts and ghouls are unscientific is because there is of course no conclusive proof in the real world that they exist; but you're staring at ghosts every day! You saw a giant portal explode in the sky! YOU'RE TALKING TO YOUR DEAD FRIEND!
Admittedly that's kind of a nitpick, but... it's one of those little things that gets to me. Otherwise I actually like her enough.
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08-13-2019, 12:45 PM | #28 |
A jump to the sky..
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,061
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Without reading through a lot of the backlog, my rules where Ghost were concerned after getting into the second half of the arc were:
1: Stop counting how many times he dies and comes back, or the countdown all together. It'll spaz out your OCD. 2: Spectre is one of the best secondary riders. 3: Once you get to the final reason of where Makoto, Kanon, and Alain come from, it's not a bad premise. You just wonder why you had to go so far into the series to get to that point. 4: Onari is not annoying. He's comic relief like a boss. I still hear his screams. And Akari is a female character that isn't a Mary Sue like some of the prior rider series. 5: Ignore the OVAs and other media unless you really just want to torture yourself. The closure in current Zi-O helps a touch, but not much. 6: Bad writing and main characterizations make Takeru kind of one of the weakest Riders from the Heisei era. His ambition isn't to live again, but to make his life burn bright, while he's dead. That makes absolutely no sense to me. 7: Not nearly enough time with the Eyecon ghosts. 8: I don't care how tough a person you are, you're allowed to cry at the Takoyaki episode. 9: Grateful is shamelessly overpowered, even though Boost was the better suit design.
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08-13-2019, 01:02 PM | #29 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Quote:
Without reading through a lot of the backlog, my rules where Ghost were concerned after getting into the second half of the arc were:
1: Stop counting how many times he dies and comes back, or the countdown all together. It'll spaz out your OCD. 2: Spectre is one of the best secondary riders. 3: Once you get to the final reason of where Makoto, Kanon, and Alain come from, it's not a bad premise. You just wonder why you had to go so far into the series to get to that point. 4: Onari is not annoying. He's comic relief like a boss. I still hear his screams. And Akari is a female character that isn't a Mary Sue like some of the prior rider series. 5: Ignore the OVAs and other media unless you really just want to torture yourself. The closure in current Zi-O helps a touch, but not much. 6: Bad writing and main characterizations make Takeru kind of one of the weakest Riders from the Heisei era. His ambition isn't to live again, but to make his life burn bright, while he's dead. That makes absolutely no sense to me. 7: Not nearly enough time with the Eyecon ghosts. 8: I don't care how tough a person you are, you're allowed to cry at the Takoyaki episode. 9: Grateful is shamelessly overpowered, even though Boost was the better suit design. 4. Agree to disagree! He's still less awful than Brave's dad in Ex-Aid, so it's not like he's the worst comic relief character I've seen. 9. Boost is an awesome design. Grateful, like a lot of upgrade suits, is just too busy for me. Like, Wizard Infinity Style is maybe my favorite upgrade suit: clean, thematically appropriate, looks premium.
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08-13-2019, 03:15 PM | #30 |
A jump to the sky..
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,061
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2. Specter is pretty great! He'd definitely make my top 5, for sure. (I don't know that any secondary rider is going to top Birth for me, but time will tell.)
4. Agree to disagree! He's still less awful than Brave's dad in Ex-Aid, so it's not like he's the worst comic relief character I've seen. 9. Boost is an awesome design. Grateful, like a lot of upgrade suits, is just too busy for me. Like, Wizard Infinity Style is maybe my favorite upgrade suit: clean, thematically appropriate, looks premium. 1: Grease 2: Birth 3: Spectre 4: Mach/Chase 5: Baron IXA is also up there somewhere with Beast in the 6-10 of that list, but Birth is without a doubt one of my favorites. Looking forward to what you think after Ghost. Considering Ex-Aid followed after, looking back it's not impossible to consider watching Ghost again, albeit with considerably less judgement from when it was airing.
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