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12-28-2020, 12:32 PM | #11 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 2,553
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Quote:
But dear lord the plot start for this new story arch is just really bad, to the point of I basically have to go " Oh, they are clearly under some sort of mind control ", which I actually hope is true because god damn the speed of which they turn on Touma is just so dumb, at least Blades I can understand, he has actual groundwork put there to make him turn against Touma, the rest ? Not so much. If anything, characters like Buster have more groundwork for siding with Touma in seeing that something might be wrong here. It’s not that out of the blue. This guy on another forum put it succinctly. Quote:
Reika is a reputable member of the Southern Base while Touma just joined the team (Let's remember that a lot of the members didn't want him to join at first).
And her point is pretty solid, the only one who went inside the book was Touma, who knows what happened in there? All that the other knights know is that Touma followed Caliber, a known traitor and former Saber, went into that book and came back with anti-guild thoughts. Not only that but he reveals that he made a promise to HELP the betrayer that killed Kento further his goal. For Oogami and Daishinji, it's history repeating itself. They saw the former Saber fight Caliber and BECOME Caliber. So they fear the same will happen to Touma. For Ren, who worshiped Kento, having Touma side with Caliber is the ultimate betrayal. For Rintarou, who grew up as an orphan and was raised by the organization. It's inconceivable to him that there is a traitor. |
12-28-2020, 12:37 PM | #12 |
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Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 320
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Add to that that Reika is now their appointed superior until Sophia returns, yeah, this makes a lot of sense. They're swordsmen, they'll put their responsibilities to the guild above their friendships, especially with how they got betrayed in the past.
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12-28-2020, 02:08 PM | #13 |
Hmm....
Join Date: Jan 2016
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12-28-2020, 03:32 PM | #14 |
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 380
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Also poor Touma in the credits all alone in the museum.
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Last edited by vproject; 12-28-2020 at 03:40 PM.. |
12-28-2020, 04:07 PM | #15 |
Showa Girl
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 9,064
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This is my favourite episode of Saber so far.
Like... okay, I've got some issues here; I think there could have been a lot more conflict and nuance in how the other Riders were reacting to Touma (maybe have one of Ogami or Daishinji try to be the mediating type or reason with him before things get heated), but I'm sure we'll at least see scenes like that soon enough and it works well enough with how Ren of course is someone who flies off the handle and how it's been slowly built up that Rintarou's foundation and main area of trust is the Sword of Logos; so I especially loved here that he just loses his cool and tries to block out any criticism of them as that's hitting at a lot of his stability. His actor is doing so, SO much good work here to make it believable! I think again if it were just Rintarou and Ren it would have made that scene a lot better, it's just that Ogami and Daishinji have previously been portrayed as much wiser mentors before that should be a bit more above attacking Touma this easily. Otherwise? I'm loving this so, so much more and this is how you do drama -- rather than the main rider getting mopey because of cheap character death it's a very clear set-up of clashing ideologies that fits what we know of the characters; it's clearly leading to interesting places and really feels like the start of a completely new era for the show after setting up and smashing a status quo of Good Riders Vs. Evil Calibur. It's an excellent twist and one I hope the show is as dedicated to as it wants me to believe; I'm now fully invested in this season and understand what it's trying to do! Fukuda's done it again!
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12-28-2020, 06:22 PM | #16 |
Reiei
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 3,691
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To be fair on Ogami and Daishinji, they didn't directly attack Touma for the first parts of the fight. They moreso restraining him and trying to take his sword. It wasn't until Touma was pushed back and went "yakusoku", him referring to Kamijou, that all of them ganged up on him. But they were also the ones to retreat first and grab a hold of Ren who went apeshit.
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12-28-2020, 06:25 PM | #17 |
Showa Girl
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 9,064
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Quote:
To be fair on Ogami and Daishinji, they didn't directly attack Touma for the first parts of the fight. They moreso restraining him and trying to take his sword. It wasn't until Touma was pushed back and went "yakusoku", him referring to Kamijou, that all of them ganged up on him. But they were also the ones to retreat first and grab a hold of Ren who went apeshit.
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12-28-2020, 06:31 PM | #18 |
Reiei
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 3,691
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Oh yeah. I didn't expect Tetsuo to be the one to go "uragirimono tensai" and transform immediately. He was defiant of the idea a while ago. Also, very interesting info that I heard. Saber's opening foreshadow Touma's betrayal kind of. "It's okay to be alone because even flowers bloom with out help". That's going to be Touma for a while in Q2, well, save for Yuuri being there. "Even if you're wearing a mask, it's okay to cry." Is also Touma, being betrayed and all while as a Kamen rider. |
12-28-2020, 08:12 PM | #19 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
Posts: 3,833
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今回はまさに「サイコウ」でしたね~
First of all, just to be clear, Takurou Fukuda is not three different people, so whether it's praise or complaints, I'd appreciate if they were directed towards the actual writer for this episode, Keiichi Hasegawa. In my case, it is going to be nothing but praise. This is easily the best episode of Saber yet, and a dang good episode of Kamen Rider all around. That's my own personal biased opinion, of course -- one of this episode's biggest victories for me was how much it made me realize seeing the Riders in conflict genuinely upsets me after 15 episodes of camaraderie -- but I legitimately think the writing here was nearly airtight in both how it made the internal conflict work, and the angle the story is taking with it. They covered their tracks very solidly with the character motivations by playing off of established traits. Touma values promises, and thus refuses to dishonor both his words to Kento, as well as the implied words he likely would've said to the dying Kamijou given the chance. Ren is explicitly the one who escalates the confrontation into physical violence, because he's all about violence. Rintarou is heartbroken at the thought his new friend would speak ill of the family he loves. Daishinji and Ogami are the designated veterans of the current pool of Riders, and as such are both slightly more level-headed and hesitant to join in on the fighting, yet also more liable to trust the word of the organization they've been working with for far longer than they've been working with Touma. They're also probably not trying to actively murder him the way Ren seems to be, nor are they taking it personally like Rintarou is. It's way too considered and smartly set up to dismiss as cheap writing, as far as I'm concerned. I think it would only look that way if you're only considering Touma's perspective, and the whole thing that I find so clever about this development is how it actively involves the fact that these are individuals with their own viewpoints and principles. I am wildly excited to see where this goes from here. It's a great new direction for a series that seems to be making faith an overarching theme. But that's honestly not even the biggest thing in the episode that impressed me, which is just how slow it is. There's only one fight scene in this episode, and it doesn't start until the 15 minute mark. In an episode of Saber! There's a very healthy amount of time spent following the characters around in mundane scenarios, and letting them just breathe and talk and relax for once in a while, and I loved every second of that. I hope to see more of it, at least here or there, because it's something Saber could definitely use a bit more of. The big betrayal climax couldn't have happened with anywhere near the clarity and believability it did without that time wisely spent setting it up, and that alone demonstrates how important those smaller scenes can be. So again, easily the best episode yet. Plus, and this is the really important thing, we've had Brave Dragon show up in three episodes in a row after Dragonic Knight's debut. That's nuts! Also they went out of their way to have Touma be alone in those shots of the ED with the big books and stuff and not even the upbeat jam could stop that from being depressing.
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Last edited by Fish Sandwich; 01-29-2023 at 11:48 AM.. |
12-28-2020, 08:20 PM | #20 |
Showa Girl
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 9,064
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Quote:
It's way too considered and smartly set up to dismiss as cheap writing, as far as I'm concerned. I think it would only look that way if you're only considering Touma's perspective, and the whole thing that I find so clever about this development is how it actively involves the fact that these are individuals with their own viewpoints and principles. I am wildly excited to see where this goes from here. It's a great new direction for a series that seems to be making faith an overarching theme.
also wow i am bad at keeping track of writers
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