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01-26-2021, 12:41 AM | #791 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
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I mean, it's not like I'm thrilled to kick this episode when it's down, but the whole reason I started posting on TokuNation to begin with was watching Ghost and having a super tough time with it. Sometimes it helps to know that you're not alone in finding these shows not that great! It's okay to share that!
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01-26-2021, 01:08 AM | #792 |
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You know, when I was depressed and thinking I was the worse the last thing I think I would've wanted was for my friends to affirm that idea then blow me up with a rider kick.
So like as as a person who's lived through thinking their awful, and have no hope, can I say fuck this? is that allowed?
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01-26-2021, 01:16 AM | #793 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
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You know, when I was depressed and thinking I was the worse the last thing I think I would've wanted was for my friends to affirm that idea then blow me up with a rider kick.
So like as as a person who's lived through thinking their awful, and have no hope, can I say fuck this? is that allowed? I genuinely cannot fathom how the writer who did an entire series about learning to love yourself despite the parts others dislike, who has a beat in every single series he wrote (and almost every episode for series he guest-wrote) about how you aren't ever just good or bad, you're you, and knowing that makes it easier to get through your day... I don't know how that guy wrote this one? Wrote something so accidentally cruel? So, yes: I'll allow it.
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01-26-2021, 05:13 AM | #794 |
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I'm not suggesting I want to see a sibling relationship that's also romantic! But the fact that I need to explain my confusion around their interactions in those terms is maybe more of an indictment of Kamen Rider shows maybe not making that clear than it is my inability to pick up on nuance!
And, honestly, I don't know how much I'm supposed to read Another Tendou as her brother? It's weird! He is very suddenly devoted to this girl he literally just met! They don't have a shared history, and they don't technically have any genetic link, what with them being copies of copies or whatever. It is confusing! I don't feel like this is just me being dense! Quote:
KAMEN RIDER KABUTO - EPISODE 44
Like, there’s half an episode before the two people who know Hiyori best in all the world go Hey Maybe She Wasn’t Being Honest About Her Feelings. I know she’s been gone for a while, but hiding behind isolation and pushing away the people she cares about is kind of her thing! It's her go-to move! She always needs you to fight for her! So, yeah, the slow realization that Hiyori is maybe not thrilled to live eternally in Heightened Contrast Dimension with a cheerfully obsessed duplicate of Tendou… just not a great part of this episode. And having the thing that makes Kagami figure it out be Sasword taking a hellacious beating (that, once again, Worm Widower just wanders off from instead of finishing the job) and then going Bravery WAIT THAT’S IT… again, not thrilling me. Not that clever of a plot. Quote:
Having Tendou go off to convince Hiyori to come home while Kagami just gets his ass kicked forever, that’s those guys! That’s how they operate! Tendou is the one who figures out the way to win, the secret to victory. Kagami’s the one who never quits, absorbs the punishment, supports his friends. If the strategy depends on those two acting that way, there really is no chance of failure.
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What I like here is also that Cassis Worm is used as a stepping stone to show the power of bonds and teamwork (I don't usually like heroes in numbers just ganging up on someone, but this one's making a clear point), which Kageyama clearly failed to get, with his selfish and prideful approach just end up ruining the fight and rightfully became his downfall, but the later 3 Riders implement this, because that Cassis Worm can't reflect multiple finishers, and apparently left him vulnerable to Maximum Hyper Cyclone. Quote:
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While I prefer early Kabuto, I cannot deny that this episode wins in both heartwarming moments and having an awesome fight in Area Z which is basically a warzone with an army of Worms.
Kageyama temporarily reverting to his former self as The Bee (and promptly getting beat up like his former self as The Bee) is set up to be some kind of heroic redemption but of course, nope, it's Kageyama after all. Tsurugi accepts that he should love Misaki as her own person and not a replacement for his dead sister. I feel like I haven't talked about Misaki as much as I should. I thought she was really cool as Phantom Thief Shadow and Tsurugi should definitely acknowledge her for that. Finally, there's the most memorable scene of Hyper Kabuto using his Maximum Hyper Cyclone to annihilate like a hundred Worms and Cassis Worm Gladius. Seriously, this episode has everything! Honestly, I remember the finale but most of the stuff that happens between that and this episode, yeah, not much. It feels like this is peak quality for late Kabuto. Other than that, Maximum Hyper Cyclone, I know that base Kabuto's Rider Kick is a favorite to many, but typically I find beam finishers to be flashier and looking more powerful like this one, but doesn't mean all (my favorite base finishers are something like Faiz' Crimson Smash and Drive's SpeeDrop which are kicks, and Drive also had a beam, which I liked too, on Tridoron mode where he shoots the NSX right to the opponent). Quote:
Do you pity him like I do? He just seems so broken seeing Hiyori choose Tendo over him. Unlike Hiyori, who despite her loneliness has a lot of people who care about her, the other Souji has been completely alone for so long and now that he finally found someone who made him feel loved, who he could dedicate himself to being a better brother and the authentic Kusakabe Souji that Tendo isn't, Hiyori still abandons him for Tendo which leaves him to be alone again. It's pretty sad, to see how ZECT totally ruined this one man's life and mental state.
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01-26-2021, 09:53 AM | #795 |
Standing By
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Honestly, that's the reason I'm most mad at this episode. Intentionally or not, this is an episode where someone hates who they are, wants to die, and the person who facilitates that is portrayed as a noble hero. It is ghastly. I find it offensive more than I find it stupid, and I find it plenty stupid.
I genuinely cannot fathom how the writer who did an entire series about learning to love yourself despite the parts others dislike, who has a beat in every single series he wrote (and almost every episode for series he guest-wrote) about how you aren't ever just good or bad, you're you, and knowing that makes it easier to get through your day... I don't know how that guy wrote this one? Wrote something so accidentally cruel? So, yes: I'll allow it. This episode is a little different from Inoue's usual execution of his themes but the idea is still there. It's like how Takumi spared Kiba due to considering him a human, but also acknowledged that all Orphenochs, even the good ones, needed to die so humanity could live. This can be justified since Orphenochs already experienced death as humans before reviving as Originals or through mutagen injection. The life of an Orphenoch is a dilemma that never ends. Applying this concept to Kabuto, Tsurugi was killed by a Worm, before being "revived" as an echo in the mind of that Worm. So Tsurugi wanted to accept his death as a human to be free of the evil that was keeping him alive, a second life he never should've had. That's my take on it anyway. The part with him pretending to suddenly become a serious villain and making Cassis Worm look like a chump was a little unexpected though. This is in no way Inoue's best work but I'm kind of surprised that your least favorite episode of Kabuto and maybe KR in general was written by Inoue and not Yonemura, who wrote your least favorite arc of Hibiki. Maybe you should change your catchphrase to "Inoue Most Of The Time". Quote:
At best anti-heroic redemption for Kageyama, after spending the earlier part of the series as an anti-villain at best. He fights monsters, but show negative traits like him refusing to take an order. And lol, for those people who bash on traditional heroes and think kindness and compassion is weakness, thinking of them as hindrance to the more pragmatic way anti-heroes can employ against enemies (no hesitation, etc.) that they think can get the job done, this is a clear show of the toxic approach that it can be a weakness as well! Kageyama refuses to listen to Kagami as someone inferior to him, and he just made the situation worse! He tries to do the finisher himself, and Kagami tries to combine it but too late, resulting in Cassis Worm copying 2 finishers and its a downfall to Kageyama.
I have to complain about The Bee Zecter though, returning to users it already abandoned just cause there's nobody else it deems worthy. I mean, would you accept an offer to become a Rider if it meant being always second best to someone else who declined the offer? Quote:
Other than that, Maximum Hyper Cyclone, I know that base Kabuto's Rider Kick is a favorite to many, but typically I find beam finishers to be flashier and looking more powerful like this one, but doesn't mean all (my favorite base finishers are something like Faiz' Crimson Smash and Drive's SpeeDrop which are kicks, and Drive also had a beam, which I liked too, on Tridoron mode where he shoots the NSX right to the opponent).
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It's ok to feel pity for someone like Souji Kusakabe, but doesn't mean that people can use headcannon and paint him as a saint. Not talking about Souji Kusakabe, but it happened numerous times in other media, where because of tragedies that happened to them (as one of the reasons) to them that magically explains their every evil deed, sometimes even making them a good guys (optionally villainizing the actual heroes), etc. "He's not evil! He's just misunderstood! The heroes are jerks who don't understand what they're going through!". You don’t have to be a flawless person or even a good person in order to be or have been a victim, being a bad person or doing bad things does not disqualify you from the victim status. Conversely, being victimized at some point in your life does not automatically make you a good person or a hero, and does not preclude you from doing evil things and/or being a perpetrator of crime/abuse.
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01-26-2021, 10:20 AM | #796 |
Showa Girl
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Sorry I like respecting everyone's different interpretations on a piece of art and all, but I have absolutely no clue where you're getting the idea that the moral of 555 is genocide? Like, even on a literal level; it's hardly like the series ends with Takumi and Kaidou killing themselves if that's truly what they think! But I just genuinely do not know how you can watch 555 and come away with that
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01-26-2021, 10:30 AM | #797 |
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I, uh.
Sorry I like respecting everyone's different interpretations on a piece of art and all, but I have absolutely no clue where you're getting the idea that the moral of 555 is genocide? Like, even on a literal level; it's hardly like the series ends with Takumi and Kaidou killing themselves if that's truly what they think! But I just genuinely do not know how you can watch 555 and come away with that Sorry about the misunderstanding.
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01-26-2021, 12:24 PM | #798 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
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Why is this one isn't a great part here? I feel like this part is just similar to the end of ep. 43 where Hiyori declares to Tendou and Kagami that she chooses to live with Souji Kusakabe in the other dimension, and isolated from humans as Worm's enemies, but here it's done in a good, proper way, which is rejecting the evil copy of Kabuto and chooses Tendou and the normal world, regaining her humanity.
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But I had to tell you though, "looking cool in front of his underlings" isn't a heroism service. The point that is addressed by another series is that, worshiping violence is not a heroic trait (if looking cool refers to him being powerful enough to fight off monsters). Fighting for justice isn't done because fighting monsters is "cool", but to protect others. The heroism service here is Yaguruma following Kageyama's suit for once by fighting Cassis Worm too as KickHopper, not about "looking cool in front of his underlings".
Okay! Sometimes there are jokes! Quote:
Okay, maybe I didn't explain that as effectively as I could have. It does sound pretty terrible to read. When I said they need to die, what I meant is that they need to go extinct. Without the King, that's already inevitable so there's no reason for Takumi and Kaido to kill themselves, although Takumi wouldn't have had much time left due to Kiba accelerating his decay.
Sorry about the misunderstanding. It's something Inoue tries and fails to bring up in this episode, where Misaki wonders what the difference even is between Worms and humanity. Tadokoro basically says he doesn't know, and that grey area is where Inoue usually operates with his sympathetic monsters. I'm not sure I'm onboard with a read where Tsurugi deserved to die? He was capable of heroism, of sacrifice, of humor, of grace, of friendship, of love. He wasn't some irredeemable monster who was only a shadow of memory. He didn't deserve to die.
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01-26-2021, 12:25 PM | #799 |
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To be honest, I probably wasn’t paying much attention when I watched this episode. Either that, or I forgot about it with the next three episodes.
But I can say that I’ve taken the positivity towards a show with a re/blue duo based on beetles with the latest episode in my thread. |
01-26-2021, 12:55 PM | #800 |
Standing By
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Location: USA
Posts: 2,108
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I feel like a lot of that, the extinction stuff... I think you can read it as just Orphnochs living a human life going forward. No eternal life, none of the things that put them above humanity. Just a bunch of mortal creatures trying to find happiness.
It's something Inoue tries and fails to bring up in this episode, where Misaki wonders what the difference even is between Worms and humanity. Tadokoro basically says he doesn't know, and that grey area is where Inoue usually operates with his sympathetic monsters. I'm not sure I'm onboard with a read where Tsurugi deserved to die? He was capable of heroism, of sacrifice, of humor, of grace, of friendship, of love. He wasn't some irredeemable monster who was only a shadow of memory. He didn't deserve to die. Tsurugi didn't deserve to die when he was killed by a Worm. But as a Worm, Tsurugi still lived and died honorably, as himself. It's tragic but I think Tsurugi found what he was looking for at the end. But I can see that you really didn't like this episode so, to each their own, I guess.
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