[Mesnick]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

or reverting Tatsuya into Smash to go after Night Rogue.

By the way, yes. I remember that moment really hit me hard. I even wanted another character to be chosen for the role of the secondary rider.

[DreamSword]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

Sento's selfless acts are for example, taking in Banjou and believing in him, he's the very reason Banjou ends up in the cast. There's also how he treats Haruka in ep. 4. But just like the walls, some of the next few parts will emphasize that more. Banjou's selfish traits is shown in him complaining when others don't focus to help him clear his name or reverting Tatsuya into Smash to go after Night Rogue.

Those acts from Sento are entirely undermined by the way he treats everyone, especially Ryuga. "I need to show Banjo the way" comes across as really condescending to me, for instance. Maybe it's an issue with my subs or maybe it's a cultural thing, but I am definitely not vibing with the guy.

Meanwhile with Ryuga, sure, I wouldn't say he's a great guy, but alot of his actions and his general thought process are really understandable for the most part. Sento promises to help Ryuga clear his name only to proceed to not actually put any effort towards that. Ryuga's' primary motive is also to avenge his girlfriend and to make sure that no one else suffers as she did, which I'd personally qualify as far more heroic than anyone in the show gives him credit for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesnick

At this stage, I can only advise looking further. There are many surprises, including the revelation of Sento. As for his genius, it's the same type as Iron Man (by the way, didn't he infect superheroics with the type of asshole heroes?) or Batman and is expressed in the ability to come up with a bunch of new toys. With an ordinary mind, he does not really shine. The letter seemed real to me, but I could have missed something.

I do plan to finish the show, and while I do hope that my criticisms are addressed, I just hope it's not a case of "too little too late."

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By the way, is Zi-O being accused of manipulation? He is the most frank with everyone and even his uncle cannot really lie!

Yeah, people are really split on Sogo as a whole, not helped by how the show itself tends to flip-flop on how much of a dark side Sogo actually has. The OOO and Ryuki tributes being the biggest points of contention.

[Mesnick]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamSword

The OOO and Ryuki tributes being the biggest points of contention.

Really? I was more disappointed by Kuuga, W and Fourze. My main problem with Zi-O's Anniversary part specifically is that sometimes the show pays well-deserved homage to predecessors like Agito and Blade; and other times it shoots more of a parody of them, as in the case of Kabuto and Kiva.

[Sh Ranger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesnick

By the way, is Zi-O being accused of manipulation? He is the most frank with everyone and even his uncle cannot really lie!

Not so much accused, but manipulation is shown to be one of Sougo's unconscious talents. Geiz and Tsukuyomi often underestimate him due to his innocuous appearance unlike the dreaded Oma Zi-O. Sougo uses their perception of him to gain the element of surprise and persuade them to do what he wants, while they don't realize this until it's already happened. He doesn't lie exactly, but he will omit inconvenient truths. We see a little of this trait in the Wizard arc, but it shines in the following OOO arc.

However, I don't think this is necessarily a bad trait, nor do I think it makes Sougo any less heroic. The Sougo we know generally only uses it for good and due to his lack of friends, it's probably his coping mechanism and the only way he knows how to work with people who regularly debate whether or not they should kill him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamSword

Those acts from Sento are entirely undermined by the way he treats everyone, especially Ryuga. "I need to show Banjo the way" comes across as really condescending to me, for instance. Maybe it's an issue with my subs or maybe it's a cultural thing, but I am definitely not vibing with the guy.

Sento proudly boasts about his self-proclaimed title being something like, "the genius narcissistic hero of love and peace", so all of those contrasting traits are a part of his identity, which he values due to his memory loss. Those traits carry over to his aesthetic as Build as well, the rabbit referencing his will to protect smiles and the tank referencing his capacity for destruction, fitting with the Kamen Rider philosophy that unpleasant things are sometimes necessary for the ultimate good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamSword

Meanwhile with Ryuga, sure, I wouldn't say he's a great guy, but alot of his actions and his general thought process are really understandable for the most part. Sento promises to help Ryuga clear his name only to proceed to not actually put any effort towards that. Ryuga's' primary motive is also to avenge his girlfriend and to make sure that no one else suffers as she did, which I'd personally qualify as far more heroic than anyone in the show gives him credit for.

While Ryuuga does develop to become more heroic, actually as a result of Sento imprinting on him, his initial motivation is pretty much mostly to get revenge on Night Rogue and has no problem using ruthless tactics to accomplish this, such as turning Tatsuya in to a Smash to lure him to the enemy's base. Ryuuga also complains the most about his situation as a framed fugitive in hiding, even though his disguises at least allow him to go outside while Misora is restricted to the fridge basement for like the entire first quarter. Sento has his own problem with his memory loss, but hardly brings it up, focusing mostly on his mission to help others as a Kamen Rider.

Shame that you're not enjoying the show and protagonist (also a self-proclaimed title for Sento, not like he's wrong either) much so far, but I hope you'll still find the winning formula in later episodes when the plot starts to escalate quickly.

[DreamSword]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Ryuuga also complains the most about his situation as a framed fugitive in hiding, even though his disguises at least allow him to go outside while Misora is restricted to the fridge basement for like the entire first quarter. Sento has his own problem with his memory loss, but hardly brings it up, focusing mostly on his mission to help others as a Kamen Rider.

Everyone has the right to complain about their hardships. Just because Misora arguably has it harder doesn't mean that Ryuga should be looked down on for venting about his own very legitimate problems.

Quote:

Shame that you're not enjoying the show and protagonist (also a self-proclaimed title for Sento, not like he's wrong either) much so far, but I hope you'll still find the winning formula in later episodes when the plot starts to escalate quickly.

Super intricate plot or not, if this show can't atleast give me one character to latch onto then I'm not gonna be very invested. Much as I dislike Decade, it atleast had Daiki, who I thoroughly enjoyed.

For the record, I'm not saying that Build is super terrible and the worst thing ever or anything like that, it's just very much not my cup of tea so far. And I do hope there'll be a turnaround as I keep watching.

[DreadBringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamSword

Meanwhile with Ryuga, sure, I wouldn't say he's a great guy, but alot of his actions and his general thought process are really understandable for the most part. Sento promises to help Ryuga clear his name only to proceed to not actually put any effort towards that. Ryuga's' primary motive is also to avenge his girlfriend and to make sure that no one else suffers as she did, which I'd personally qualify as far more heroic than anyone in the show gives him credit for.

Motives alone don't determine if you're the most heroic or not. Much more things also determine it, like actions/methods (not only about beating up bad guys), worldviews (as a root for their actions), etc. Though as said, Banjou's motivation that time is about himself.

Even genuine selfless motives doesn't automatically make them heroic, like if they're extremists who'd accomplish that by primarily doing extreme things they'd be (typically) anti-villains, such as Takatora in Gaim wanting to preserve the human race, but doing so by committing genocide on the remaining humans not getting Sengoku Drivers (albeit he had asked for Ryoma to focus on quantity for mass Sengoku Drivers so there can be more humans saved).

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamSword

Everyone has the right to complain about their hardships. Just because Misora arguably has it harder doesn't mean that Ryuga should be looked down on for venting about his own very legitimate problems.

Yes you can. What people should learn (including me at times) is that, it's not you alone who have hardships, anyone else can have their own hardships as well. The world doesn't revolve around you. Banjou had complained that "Sento is so selfish for focusing on his own problems... he should be focusing on my problems!", and that's entitlement (and a hypocrisy) to think that everyone should only cater to his problems.

Of course Banjou's behavior is understandable, but someone being understandable doesn't mean they get free pass for everything (which is also often used for outright villains too, like explaining their actions as in "they have bad childhood!")

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

However, I don't think this is necessarily a bad trait, nor do I think it makes Sougo any less heroic. The Sougo we know generally only uses it for good and due to his lack of friends, it's probably his coping mechanism and the only way he knows how to work with people who regularly debate whether or not they should kill him.

Yeah, some traits like master manipulator is often seen/portrayed as an inherently bad/villainous trait (and even for heroic ones, this often applies to ethics-ignoring anti-heroes as it serves as their dark trait). But a weapon to save the day isn't only fighting/brute force, but human nature knowledge, wit, words, people skill, etc. also count. Though not only the characters, many audience seem to get used to only Sougo's idiotic demeanor to see him as cunning.

Though even that applies to Sougo somewhat too that his manipulating is one of the dark traits that can lead into him becoming Ohma Zi-O, if not moderated, shown in the Ryuki tribute 2-parter (ep. 21-22).

[GoldenXtreme]

I can understand where DreamSword is coming from. Not in the sense that I don't like Build (I love Build), but in the sense that it reminds me a lot about how I feel with OOO. Sometimes a show just manages a near total whiff on an emotional level for a specific viewer. You can tell WHY people like it but it simply is not working for you for various reasons.

[DreamSword]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

-snip-

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but I feel as though you're missing my overall point?

I'm not trying to debate morality or philosophy, I'm simply not digging how Buold as a show tries to really talk up Sento while talking down to Ryuga, when most of Sento's' positive traits are simply things we're told about, whereas Ryuga's' more positive traits are things we're actually shown. Meanwhile, Sento's' negatives are really downplayed whereas Ryuga's' are condemned almost every episode. It's an issue of Telling and not Showing.

Not trying to talk down to you. Just attempting to clear up some things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenXtreme

I can understand where DreamSword is coming from. Not in the sense that I don't like Build (I love Build), but in the sense that it reminds me a lot about how I feel with OOO. Sometimes a show just manages a near total whiff on an emotional level for a specific viewer. You can tell WHY people like it but it simply is not working for you for various reasons.

Thanks for that. And yeah, as much as I love both Kuuga and OOO, I'll fully admit that they're very much the type of shows where if the first handful of episodes aren't jiving with you, they don't really do much to try and change your mind, for better or worse.

[Matrixbeast]

Watched Episode 0 for Outsiders. Was an okay start. Disappointed Smart Queen was only here to job to Genm.

Still seriously confused as to how Ohja is still around. Motherfucker literally has 2 different endings, and neither let him be a rider again. He's either dead, or his timeline as a rider was reset so that he never became one.

While the same argument can be made about Ryuki himself in the various crossovers, the big difference is that he doesn't have numerous specials focused around Shinji's return specifically.

Also, the idea of Ohja Survive is terrifying, and I hope it actually pays off.

Unrelated, this would've also been the perfect opportunity to bring back G4. His whole deal was that it's AI basically took over the user. Making it so G4 just straight up takes control of a Humagear would be a great way to bring it back as well as expand on it's AI.

[DreamSword]

Up through episode 22 of Build. Here are some off-the-cuff cliffnotes on how I felt during this little section of the show.

Really not a fan of the constant gaslighting here. So many characters, even Sento himself, insist that Sento is the one responsible for the war, when that's not even remotely true, and arguably even worse than that, when Hazard Trigger comes around and it's time for the final bout with Grease, Sento proceeds to gaslight Misora into thinking that she's just as responsible as he is for everything going on. Stand up guy.

Speaking of that final bout, it really should've been Grease vs Cross-Z Charge, considering that both the suits and the characters in them have a very blatant duality thing going on between them. But no, it instead goes to Build, because Hazard Trigger I guess.

Heck, as much fame among fans as the Hazard Trigger debut episode has, I felt incredibly let down by it. The form itself really doesn't do much to stand out from other Berserk forms I've seen in Rider, and the sequence itself goes by really quick. Not helping is how easily the form is beaten both in the episode itself as well as in the "Raising the Hazard Level" specials, which only proceeds to undermine its supposed power more.

That said, the main reason I was let down by that episode was the death of Aoba. Because see, I ended up feeling way more for Grease and the Three Crows than I did any other character so far. They group have a fun dynamic together, their character moments are very strong by comparison, and their friendship as a group actually feels genuine. Heck, there's a scene where they're all just kinda hanging out and having fun together, something that Sento and Banjo, the supposed "best match" have yet to have. I was actually legit let down that Grease ended up losing to Build in the end, and that scene with Grease reflecting on his fallen friend got way more out of me than the leads have. So, yeah, when Aoba died, rather than "Oh my god, Sento's gone off the deep end!" all I could think was "Wow, I was just starting to like these characters and now one of them is dead. Great."

Outside of those highlights, it's basically just been more of the same so far in terms of how I'm interpreting what the show is presenting me. It has a few moments here and there, but it's still nothing great for me.