[DreamSword]

FINAL THOUGHTS ON PACIFIC RIM: THE BLACK

To be honest, I went into this show expecting to not like it very much.

Not only did I not have that big of a passion for the two movies that came before it, but me and "Netflix Originals" tend to not gel very well.

The Netflix Godzilla Trilogy, Netflix Ultraman, Legendary Defender... almost every Netflix Original I've ever watched has really rubbed me the wrong way, so my standards were set rather low when going into The Black.

Needless to say I was pleasantly surprised! While a bit rough around the edges, Pacific Rim: The Black ended up being a totally unique beast in and of itself. Not just in terms of the Netflix Originals that I've seen, but also in terms of the previous two movies and the mecha genre as a whole.

As I've said before, this one of the few Survival Mecha shows I've seen to never fully drop the Survival aspect of the show, and it also doesn't follow the trend set by the two movies: Following various tropes of the 70s and 80s to a T. There's so much subversion and surprisingly realistic outcomes to the scenarios presented in this anime that it almost verges on deconstruction.

Where the show really excels is in its character development and atmosphere. Sure, it's not the deepest or most intricate of this sort of thing, and the plot, for the most part, is very simple. But I'd be lying if I said that were a detriment. Alot of episodes really did draw me in just on the personal relationships and interactions between the cast alone. And a proper atmosphere helps out a ton in that regard.

Which is why it's such a shame that the anime as a whole kinda feels unfinished? It really feels like the creators were originally promised a third season, only for that promise to be taken back mid-production. Various character arcs and plot points are just outright dropped, and in season 2 especially the pacing feels rushed in places(especially the ending). There's other things too, like some early character inconsistencies, but really, I feel stuff like that is ultimately minor in comparison to the unfinished stories on some of our cast.

It really makes me hope that one day the anime will get a continuation or expansion of some form. But should that never happen, I suppose I can't complain about what we did get too much. I had an overall good time watching it, and I was always intrigued as to where it and its characters were headed next, and really, I can't ask for too much more out of a story than that, can I?

In the end, I give Pacific Rim: The Black a 4/6. It's by no means perfect, and I'm sure that anime and/or Pacific Rim hardcores could find alot of things to complain about in terms of its technicalities. But for me? I had a good time, and I recommend it to anyone who likes either of the movies or Survival shows in general.

[Daikaijuman54]

Okay, so I've been finished with this for a while now but held back and waited for you to finish. I was really tempted to leave an ominous, misleading message at one point that was like, "So I finished the show... And I have some things to say..."

But have to say, this show can certainly set up a finale (albeit somewhat a bit rushed), and I'm happy to say, I really liked this series. It doesn't answer every question, nor does it give us everything we might have liked some context on, but overall, I'm satisfied, maybe even thinking this is the better than what I might have been expecting.

I do tend to always expect the unexpected, dreading the worst, the moment where everything goes wrong, the one bad apple that spoils the bunch. I had those concerns about every turn, maybe because I've been disappointed by things far more often than I'd like, or maybe this show's atmosphere and conflict kept me on my toes at almost every interval and maybe that's what made this ending, dare I say, great for me.

Yes, it's ending was most definitely trying to replicate Gypsy Danger's sendoff in the first film, but even that didn't feel like them trying to bank on nostalgia or rehash to drive their story, and that's something I can greatly appreciate, even making the ending bittersweet, where not everyone makes it to the happy ending. While I would have talked more about each episode individually, I feel like I might not have been able to convey my feelings on them without contradicting myself, or maybe it's because I'm just too tired lately, which is entirely possible.

This show is a good companion to Pacific Rim, but also remains good on its own. And interestingly enough, I must say how much I can relate to Taylor in so many ways. Always the middleman, taking in both sides trying to figure out the best for everyone, not taking risks if you can help it. I felt a lot of the weight of his struggles that it resonated with me, something I find rare in media. Yes, there were times I felt like yelling, "you fools!" (they should have dealt with the sisters before running off, being one such example), but it was all just nitpicks.

There were indeed many times I felt like there was probably going to be more while watching the final episode, but as mentioned, I was satisfied. Even now, looking back at some of the plot holes, thinking of what more could be used in this universe, I don't think I'll mind if Pacific Rim suddenly becomes forgotten. It's not perfect, but expecting perfection is an impossibility, but I enjoyed this show, and I'm glad I watched it. It wasn't trying to live up to the expectations of the films, nor was it trying to be the "the new MCU," it told a grounded story and played with the formula in interesting and unique ways, that I'm proud of.

Now I just need to get back to the other shows on my list...

[DreamSword]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daikaijuman54

It wasn't trying to live up to the expectations of the films, nor was it trying to be the "the new MCU," it told a grounded story and played with the formula in interesting and unique ways, that I'm proud of.

Totally! Despite some flaws, this show really did feel like a story that the creators wanted to tell, rather than simply hashing something out for the sake of keeping the franchise going.

And hey, I'm glad you found some value in the show and its characters. Speaking for myself personally, finding characters who I can really jive with, especially if they're relatable, is a big plus.

[DreamSword]

Been awhile since I've been able to post a trophy soon after getting through a show I've liked, so here we are with the Robot Spirits Atlas Destroyer!

The articulation is overall solid. Certainly limits of it were unavailable due to the mech's' overall design, but other things definitely could've afforded more range. Not that Jaegars are known for doing kung-fu poses or anything, but still.

The accessories, while there are few, are all ones that I'd deem absolutely necessary. And since this was original a somewhat lower rpiced figure, I'm willing to excuse it.

Really, I feel like the biggest weakness of it is the lack of paint detailing. The "metal" joints especially are just BEGGING for a wash to bring them to life.

Still, I'm happy to have it in the collection, and I do recommend it if youre a fan of the mecha or the show that it comes from, especially if you can buy it at a discount.

So with that out of the way, what's next for the thread? Well, Pride Month is upon us, so I already know the exact show that I wanna cover next.

And that's the Iczer series! It's a set of OVAs that combines Yuri, Horror, Mecha, and of course, Tokusatsu into a rather dark action series that I like alot. And like Detonator Orgun, is something that was done great justice in the Super Robot Wars series of games.

But like I said, I'll start posting about that when June hits, so stay tuned!

[DreamSword]

Fighting Your Future VS Embracing Your Future

or

How the End of an Era Got Toei to Prepare Kids for their Futures

I'm sensing a trend here.

This all started with me watching Kamen Rider Wizard and Blassreiter at the same time, then it happened again with me seeing Kamen Rider Decade, Kamen Rider Ghost, and SSSS.Dynazenon all within the same time frame. The common link between these two groups of shows was that they contained stories that all had common themes and ideas between the group they were in, making it a really interesting thought exercise for me when comparing these shows against one another.

And now here we are again with me having just finished both Kamen Rider Zi-O as well as Hug! Pretty Cure! within the same week. And more than either of the other groups before this one, these two shows made for children share alot in common, perhaps purposefully so.

Both shows serve as anniversary seasons for their respective franchises(Kamen Rider for Zi-O; Pretty Cure for Hug), and both also close out the Heisei Era of Japan, which, of course, is a huge thing for the people of the country, and very obviously had alot of people talking about the future of the country as a whole. From how the ruler would turn out to how the people would evolve, these ideas and questions are heavily reflected in both works, and it seems very clear that Toei felt the need to talk to and prepare children and their parents for the start of a new era.

With all of that in mind, I felt that it'd make for a fun thought exercise(for me atleast) to compare and contrast these two shows handled by the same company, with very much alot of the same subject matter throughout them. Let's begin.

Action and Visual Flair

I could easily see people arguing that this isn't a really fair comparison to make. Afterall, one show is live-action whereas the other is animated, and as such, the animated show has the clear edge, right?

Well, yes and no. Me personally, I prefer to think of how both mediums go about their action sequences as different flavors, rather than one being inherently better than the other. Bad choreography can exist regardless, afterall.

For example, with Hug, while the show in general is very beautifully animated, and has many an action sequence that wouldn't be out of place in Dragon Ball Z, there were definitely a handful of episodes that were definitely working with a lower budget, with obvious signs such as obscured visuals or stills being used for action/attacks. Not to mention the use of stock footage for signature attacks(which is the norm for many a Magical Girl show).

Meanwhile with Zi-O, while the action is never out and out bad, and a good handful of sequences definitely stand out(especially in the movies), there's most certainly alot of fights that simply feel like the show is just going through the motions; Something I never felt that Hug was doing. The episodes which very blatantly forget/ignore the abilities of various super modes are especially guilty of this(looking at you, Zi-O II and Grand Zi-O).

But there's another aspect to visual flair outside of just fights and special effects when it comes to shows like these, and that's the transformation sequences.

Let's compare what I feel is the best of both shows:

What can I say? The Grand Zi-O Henshin is my favorite in the entire franchise. The use of all the various sounds from previous seasons, the effects, the resulting suit... It's got absolutely everything to make it great.

Yeah that's right. The very first transformation we see in Hug, Cure Yell's', is magnificent. Wonderful animation, great sound effects, and fully embraces its magical girl glory and heritage.

So which show did it better? Well, here's how I see it. The Grand Zi-O Henshin absolutely blows every Transformation sequence in Hug out of the water. However, the thing is, every single Transformation sequence in Hug is consistently just as good as Cure Yell's', which are all in turn far better than every other Henshin in Zi-O.

In which case, it all comes down to this: Would you rather have escalation; Wherein transformation sequences start basic(but still good), and culminate in the utter greatness of Grand Zi-O? Or would you rather have every sequence be consistently top tier, but just not as top tier as what Grand Zi-O is?

It's a toss up all across the board for both shows, but I think that, ultimately, I'm gonna give the point to Hug. Zi-O's' visual flair is nothing to outright dismiss, but Hug is just far more consistently good with theirs.

Music and Atmosphere

Right out the gate, both of these shows have absolutely banger soundtracks. Like, just listen to their openings for crying out loud!

And that's not even getting into all of the really good background tracks that both shows have. Both of these shows have soundtracks that I would happily buy! I really can't pick a winner here.

Atmosphere, though? That's another story. Both shows really do gun hard in trying to drawn you into the worlds that they're trying to build. From appropriate music tracks, to good acting, to some surprisingly really funny comedic beats, it was very clear that there was an effort on both sides.

The thing that ends up being the deciding factor though, is the context of those moments. I'll get more into it once the appropriate section is reached, but let's just say that while there was very few moments that took me out of a given episode in Hug, Zi-O is a very different story, where many a dramatic beat felt forced or unearned, and took me totally out of the story.

As such, point yet again goes to Hug.

Plot, Messages, and Themes

Both shows are very much designed to get kids and their parents to think about the future. Whether it being trials and tribulations they might face while growing up, or how society might come to change with the dawn of a new era, both stories have their own ideas on how to face an uncertain future and fight for a better tomorrow.

In Zi-O, the main emphasis appears to be the shift in rule of Japan, with Sogo serving as a stand-in for the new Emperor of Japan, and showcasing how the new rule could very much go either way, and how there will always be those who stand in opposition due to having their own ideas of what ideal rule looks like as shown in Geiz, Tsukuyomi, the Time Jackers and Woz.

There's of course some more personal stories sprinkled about, especially given how Zi-O took on the task of having tributes and tales dedicated to characters from past seasons, but Zi-O very much ends up focusing on its overarching plot more often than not.

And while that in and of itself is perfectly fine, the issue is that, well, with a plot that becomes as complex and confusing as it does, Zi-O also drops the ball alot of times in regards to its execution, such as the ever (in)famous Ryuki tributes:

On the flip side, with Hug, it kinda doesn't even really have a plot, per se? There's the ever looming threat of the bad guys, sure, but Hug is a much more episodic affair that focuses almost exclusively on character arcs and the connections built between the cast. And while that might seem rather basic or bare bones to some viewers, I found it actually worked out for the better more often than not.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the thing that alot of people seem to misunderstand about being simplistic is that, well, there's alot less to fumble on. Sure, Hug might not have much of a plot to speak of, but in turn, almost nothing in what plot is there feels like it comes out of left field or is otherwise executed poorly as was many times the case in Zi-O(for me, atleast).

But of course, this is also going off an assumption that everything Hug presents and talks about is basic or of non-substance.

When it comes to its stance on how to look towards the future, Hug, rather than looking at the change in leadership, instead focuses in on people in general, and how their lives change as time goes on. This in turn makes every story alot more personal for everyone involved. The show talks about things such as technology, gender roles, aging, depression, anxiety, divorce, and a bunch of other subjects that I was incredibly surprised to see a show of its kind tackle. Heck, I'd argue that makes it way more mature and complex than Zi-O by comparison.

That's not to say that Zi-O doesn't have various subject matters that it also talks about. One of my favorite things it brought up was the lesson that the hero of one story can be the villain of another. It's just that Hug, in my opinion, is alot more direct and alot smarter about how it handles its lessons than what Zi-O is.

So as you might've guessed, point once again goes to Hug.

Characters

And now for the biggest part of any story for me. How do the characters measure up? I've already touched upon the roles they serve in the grand scheme of each show in previous sections, so here, I'm just gonna focus on the casts and their arcs in and of themselves.

Let's start by saying that I do like the core cast of Zi-O. Yes, there are some major fumbles in regards to nearly every character's' arc, but I overall came out of the show with more positives for the core characters than not. From Sogo's' derpy personality to Geiz's' being on guard the point that he always wears a collar; The dynamics between the main handful of characters was almost always a delight to watch. Heck, most surprisingly, a few of my favorite characters ended up being total side characters in Rento and Uncle, who delivered some of my favorite moments in the show.

But... that's kinda where it stops. To give an example from a previous season of Kamen Rider, OOO was a season where I felt that the overall plot was really dumb, but almost every character was so strong that it didn't matter. This is not the case with Zi-O, where, yeah, I do like the core cast, but the other issues it has(especially in terms of plot) really do detract from the overall experience of being around these people. The villains were really weak in characterization, and heck, I basically remember almost none of the side characters at all.

Meanwhile, Hug? Not only did I feel that the fumbles were few and far between, but I remember a ton of the supporting cast and absolutely loved the villains. Hana's' parents, the kids at school who make a fan club for Cure Yell, Emiru's' brother, the Takoyaki seller, and almost the entirety of the villain cast... These are all characters who I grew to really like and even if I'm terrible with names, do remember their various quirks and stories. And then of course there was the biggest surprise in Henri the crossdresser.

Henri was a character with a subject matter that I was incredibly impressed by in how the anime handled him. He's a fully fledged character with an arc of his own who is handled incredibly respectfully, and to see a kid's' show handle him in such a way was a great breath of fresh air.

Zi-O has something similar with the arc of Heure in the Zi-O VS Decade special, which I did like! But on the other hand, it also has the absolute bungling of how Tezuka was handled in Rider Time Ryuki, which very much did not sit right with me.

And lastly, I wasn't entirely sure whether to put it in this section or put it under the previous one, as it has to do with both, so I'll just settle for cramming it in right now: Zi-O seemed much more focused on fighting against the bad future; Cutting off the head to provide for the many, so to speak. Meanwhile Hug instead focuses on getting to the root of people's' problems; Embracing them and showing them that they can always work to better themselves and their future. Every villain gets a solid look into their backstory and motivations, and ends up redeemed by the end. Not so much for Zi-O. There's certainly an argument to made about which is more appealing, to be sure, but for me, I generally dug Hug's' approach alot more.

With Zi-O I really only like the "important" characters, whereas with Hug, I love damn near every one of them, main character or not. Final point of course goes to Hug.

Final Thoughts

If it seemed as though all I did throughout this review was dunk on Zi-O, then I apologize, as that was very much not my intent. I do overall think the show is fine. It's one with very big highs and really steep lows, and based on other posts I've seen, I can kinda get why some might find that to be a more interesting experience. But for me, the two hands clash far too hard for me to consider the show one of the greats. As such, I score Kamen Rider Zi-O with a 3/6. It's not anywhere near as bad as what some might want you to believe, but it's nothing to absolutely rave over either.

Likewise, I am also not trying to say that Hug is in all ways perfect. The last episode especially has some serious fumbles in terms of narrative, and there are definitely some aspects here and there than don't pan out optimally. But the thing is, I find all of those fumbles to be incredibly minor in the grand scheme of things. So no, it's not perfect, but I had an incredible time with it, and I'd highly recommend it to just about anyone. I give Hug! Pretty Cure! a very solid 5/6. Absolutely wonderful show.

[Daikaijuman54]

This is an interesting analogy. I happen to see this a lot in some shows, where I'm watching one thing, yet has similar themes to another at the same time. I know you've yet to see Kamen Rider Gaim, which is often compared to Madoka, both by Gen Urobutcher, but I'll leave that for another discussion.

Now, I don't have anything against your comparisons, and maybe this is just me, but I feel like comparing Anime and Tokusatsu/Live-action is a little unfair. Now, granted, these are both by Toei, Pretty Cure is basically considered Anime Kamen Rider, and both are at the end of the Heisei Era, and you make good points on both.

The thing is animation will more often than not, be superior to Live-Action, as there no limitations to animation. Now I don't like to talk about the Disney Remakes, but an example being The Lion King (the remake is still animated), where the characters in the original have so much personality to their designs, you can tell just by looking at them what kind of character they are, whereas in the remake, because they went with a photorealistic look, they lack that spark and don't reflect to the audience, because they're more in line with what real animals look like, and we can only make guesses based on an animal's expression, so it feels like looking at blank cardboard most of the time. Or how visually different the two are in every scene.

Now I agree, the thing about Tokusatsu is that the more visually interesting transformations are usually saved for big moments like a form debut or turning point in the story, and I don't doubt every transformation past the debut for Pretty Cure (The thing about Magical Girls is that they always know how to transform in style) is of the same quality, if not better, but being two different mediums like this (much like I did for comparing Gaim and Madoka, or Ryuki and Fate/stay night), I always look at their stories or whatever can be gleamed barring whether they're live-action or animated.

Again, not trying to say anything like "you're wrong, son," it's still an interesting comparison, and you make some great points on both, but I feel like judging visual flair on live-action to animation is usually going to fall to the latter, and it's something that I'm sure you'll explore again once you see Gaim and Madoka. Still, funny how we end up watching shows with such similarities at the same time.

[cosmicrescend0]

Heard someone mention Precure, had to come running to jump into the thread for the first time! It's sometimes diffcult to think about Rider and Precure airing side by side basically, since I got into both at two different times and the difference in tone, that I didn't even think of comparing the two.

You know, oftentimes when I hear other fans try to recommend Precure, they'll show a clip of a nicely animated fight scene, or a stunning transformation sequence. And while that isn't necesarily a bad thing to get someone interested....I often feel like it's missing the core of the franchise?

Which is those simple yet strong character moments/dynamics and the handling/outlook on certain topics/themes. While I might rib on the show for its more questionable character moments (the themes of motherhood, Homare's arc, George in general), Hugtto does have some really strong emotional beats that land every time, some of which are definitely some of the franchise's best. Glad you enjoyed it! Geniunely didn't expect Precure to be in this thread, def has more toku DNA in its than your average magicial girl show but I rarely see ppl assoicate it with it.

(Iczer sounds interesting, I'll definitely come and see!)

[DreamSword]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daikaijuman54

Now, I don't have anything against your comparisons, and maybe this is just me, but I feel like comparing Anime and Tokusatsu/Live-action is a little unfair. Now, granted, these are both by Toei, Pretty Cure is basically considered Anime Kamen Rider, and both are at the end of the Heisei Era, and you make good points on both.

The thing is animation will more often than not, be superior to Live-Action, as there no limitations to animation. Now I don't like to talk about the Disney Remakes, but an example being The Lion King (the remake is still animated), where the characters in the original have so much personality to their designs, you can tell just by looking at them what kind of character they are, whereas in the remake, because they went with a photorealistic look, they lack that spark and don't reflect to the audience, because they're more in line with what real animals look like, and we can only make guesses based on an animal's expression, so it feels like looking at blank cardboard most of the time. Or how visually different the two are in every scene.

I definitely see where you're coming from, and I wouldn't blame anyone else for thinking that's an unfair and/or Apples to Oranges comparison. But like, had Hug's' action scenes and or animation been bad, I would've had no problem giving the point to Zi-O, as Zi-O never really had any out and out bad action or effects work that I can recall, just not alot that was super stellar.

There's also direction to consider, but I'm really bad at eyeing and highlighting that sort of thing, so I didn't go much into it.

Quote:

Now I agree, the thing about Tokusatsu is that the more visually interesting transformations are usually saved for big moments like a form debut or turning point in the story, and I don't doubt every transformation past the debut for Pretty Cure (The thing about Magical Girls is that they always know how to transform in style) is of the same quality, if not better, but being two different mediums like this (much like I did for comparing Gaim and Madoka, or Ryuki and Fate/stay night), I always look at their stories or whatever can be gleamed barring whether they're live-action or animated.

Again, not trying to say anything like "you're wrong, son," it's still an interesting comparison, and you make some great points on both, but I feel like judging visual flair on live-action to animation is usually going to fall to the latter, and it's something that I'm sure you'll explore again once you see Gaim and Madoka. Still, funny how we end up watching shows with such similarities at the same time.

I do definitely agree that the writing is the most important aspect, but aesthetic is very much part of the appeal to these shows as well, so it wouldn't really feel right to me to leave it out.

Even if all I felt like focusing on was plot and characters though, I'd say that Hug still easily wins though. Loved its cast alot more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmicrescend0

Heard someone mention Precure, had to come running to jump into the thread for the first time!

Welcome! Just as you're new to this thread, I am very new to PreCure!

Quote:

It's sometimes difficult to think about Rider and Precure airing side by side basically, since I got into both at two different times and the difference in tone, that I didn't even think of comparing the two.

Yeah, comparisons between shows like Kamen Rider, Power Rangers, and Super Sentai are pretty common and easy to see, and understandably so, but with how PreCure is part of the Super Hero Time block, the very much similar bases that Hug and Zi-O work on, as well as the many debates I've read on if Magical Girl shows count as Toku/Sentai shows or not, I definitely felt that I needed to highlight atleast one Magic Girl show in this thread.

Quote:

You know, oftentimes when I hear other fans try to recommend Precure, they'll show a clip of a nicely animated fight scene, or a stunning transformation sequence. And while that isn't necesarily a bad thing to get someone interested....I often feel like it's missing the core of the franchise?

Which is those simple yet strong character moments/dynamics and the handling/outlook on certain topics/themes. While I might rib on the show for its more questionable character moments (the themes of motherhood, Homare's arc, George in general), Hugtto does have some really strong emotional beats that land every time, some of which are definitely some of the franchise's best. Glad you enjoyed it! Geniunely didn't expect Precure to be in this thread, def has more toku DNA in its than your average magicial girl show but I rarely see ppl assoicate it with it.

I'll admit, I really didn't know what to expect when I started watching this, given my admittedly very limited exposure to the Magical Girl genre as a whole, but "Dragon Ball Z but for girls" was about the last thing I expected, and the really well done character arcs and messages just made everything all the better. I definitely wanna check out more of the franchise now!

Quote:

(Iczer sounds interesting, I'll definitely come and see!)

Thanks for coming along! I look forward to any insights you might have.

[cosmicrescend0]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamSword

I definitely wanna check out more of the franchise now!

Have a few personal recommendations, then:

Futari wa Pretty Cure: The original! Has a sliiiightly different vibe than the rest of the series, but it usually still ranks high with folks for its solid action and fun duo protagonists. (Its direct sequel, Max Heart, is lesser regarded for certain reasons [especially concerning the character that makes this duo a trio], but i had fun with it.)

Fresh Precure- one of my personal favorites! I feel like a lot of ppl don't give this one its dues, as it really solidifed what would become iconic staples of the brand while saving the franchise from disappearing entirely? It features one of my favorite protags in the franchise with a really solid cast and fun storylines!

Go! Princess Precure- people will often tout this one as the pinnacle of the series, and like. Yeah, it probably is, its excellent on all fronts lol. There's a certain assumption that the modern magicial girl story has to turn its nose up/be ashamed of the classic elements of the genre or replace it with ""darker"" elements to become popular or appease modern audiences, but Go! Pri is always my go-to in showing that a show can be so unashamedly magical girl and still be an excellent experience even for those unfamiliar with the genre.

[Daikaijuman54]

I don't doubt Hug has more legs to stand on than Zi-O, I haven't seen it, so I can only go off what I know of Zi-O (not trying to defend it or anything, since I'm certain there are aspects of Hug that definitely land more than Zi-O). For one thing, I'm convinced it has a better villain than Swartz, and maybe more cohesion and consistency unlike Zi-O, and I can see that based on your statements. Kamen Rider is almost always riding the line between great and not so great, which may or may not land for others.

Don't know if I'll start PreCure any time soon, since I'm hard pressed for time enough as it is already.