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10-06-2024, 01:29 PM | #11 |
NinninComic
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 757
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Suga reminds me of a fusion of Zero-One Jin (appearance) and Revice George.
But while Jin was a childlike vilain at first and George a fun-to-watch Kamen Rider nerd/mad scientist, Suga really looks cold to me and makes me not like him at all. Which is kinda a good thing because I don't want him to be redeemed like most vilain/unlikeable characters. Please don't give him a tragic backstory to explain why he looks shady and make him be that curious guy who goes to far and ends badly, like, I don't know, Ghost Saionji ? |
10-07-2024, 09:15 AM | #12 |
Standing By
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: USA
Posts: 2,318
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These evidences look like they're conveniently left there by the Granute of the week simply to tell Hanto that Mr. Shioya had been killed by that Granute without a shadow of doubt. This is beyond dumb. Why would a criminal leave soooooo many pieces of incriminating evidences that point to his crime? Why didn't he remove those evidences before he left the crime scene? And more importantly, why would that Granute of the week decide to kill Mr. Shioya and leave his Hito Press at the crime scene?
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Gavv's really moving fast, I'm also one of those who'd expect Michiru to be likely used as a hostage later by the Stomachs against Shoma, and if she dies, it'd be a dramatic moment later. It's the same for Soji, where I expect him to be the current VOTW, but he's killed off, and there's another secondary Rider fueled by revenge.
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It seems like Suga is becoming more suspicious, with him supporting Hanto's revenge and using it as motivation, being deemed insane by Hanto, only caring about the success of his Rider project while recording Valen, and obviously, him stealing the Gochizos at the end. Obviously, Suga wouldn't know if the Gochizos are living beings, but it'd still be stealing regardless, even though he claims he borrows them.
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Soji claims Hanto's fighting skills are not very good, and thus his secondary debut isn't dominant like most previous secondaries, though his injuries from the surgery also doesn't help. He still has a cool environment tactic to collapse the floor they're fighting on and disorient Otake.
Saionji did have a tragic backstory though, well, kind of. He was a fan of Da Vinci and believed he should've been included in the 15 Heroic Eyecons, but Ryu believed that heroism was stronger in people who had endured through hard work rather than relying on natural talent. I think Ryu's criteria made sense and embodied the "letting life burn bright" philosophy more, but if you look from Saionji's perspective, it must be painful for your idol's worth to be denied like that, especially by a close friend.
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10-07-2024, 07:52 PM | #13 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
Posts: 3,912
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Yeah, I'd definitely say that's some bitter chocolate! I probably don't need to explain that the whole reason I tried to take stock of my opinion on Hanto last time was because I expected his big Rider debut might change a lot about his character. Between the episode preview and the way the narrative has been set up, I fully expected to see a very different side to the guy here. What I expected a bit less was just how far they went with it. That being said, considering everything about the sort of overall story Gavv has been telling so far, I'm not sure in retrospect what part of this I shouldn't have seen coming? Kamen Rider Valen's debut is very much in line with what Gavv has done with Gavv himself. He has an origin story rooted so deeply in classic Rider tropes it almost feels like a retro throwback -- a man with a surgically altered body who shoulders great solitude while fighting an evil organization connected to those origins. It's harder to get more true to the original than that. The modern part of it is that, as I was hoping for, Hanto is set up as the #2 Rider in the way we generally think of that term nowadays -- a foil who exists to contrast with our main protagonist, the differences serving to emphasize each character's uniquely interesting role in the story. This is a debut that's placed pretty much perfectly. Those first five episodes seem to have left Shouma in a fairly stable place after a lot of wandering around, so with Gavv firmly settled in as the hero, the show immediately sets to tearing down Hanto's world to make Valen's introduction as unstable as possible. I loved how the broad strokes are so close, and yet the emphasis of everything is completely different. Chiefly, Hanto doesn't seem to be in this for quite the right reasons. Shouma first became Gavv solely because he wanted to keep other people from losing what he did, and only later realized what he himself stood to gain by fighting. So of course, Valen is the opposite, with Hanto single-mindedly focused on avenging a personal loss before anything else. Gavv represents Shouma finally being able to liberate himself from the cage he spent his life in, but it's made readily apparent that Valen may well turn out to be a cage that Hanto has shortsightedly stepped into, manipulated by people using his sorrow to their gain. It's pretty freakin' great, and I gotta give major props to action director Satoshi Fujita for cooking up such a wonderfully unique fight scene to cap this one off, because I think a wounded gunman viciously smacking around his foe melee-style in a desperate effort to compensate for his injuries is exactly the kind of memorable visual encapsulation of everything going on in the story that'll keep people always looking back on this episode very fondly in the long run.
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10-07-2024, 11:17 PM | #14 |
WONDER RIDER
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,886
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I find it incredibly hilarious that instead of teaming up with Gavv like I originally thought, it would seem that Valen's powers will come from Suga literally stealing the Gochizo in broad daylight and booking it.
That does give rise to the possibility of future villains stealing Gochizos for themselves and making their own Kamen Riders though.
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10-07-2024, 11:55 PM | #15 |
Ex-Weather Three leader
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 11,182
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I keep seeing Zenkai Zyuran whenever I see Suga because Asanuma who plays Suga was the voice of Zyuran in Zenkaiger. Now I want someone to draw or photoshop a picture of Zyuran stealing Gochizous.
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10-08-2024, 06:07 AM | #16 |
WONDER RIDER
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,886
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Something I want to note is that Hanto's mentor/father figure died exactly the way his actor's character in Amazons did: snapped in half. Well, in Amazons the guy was ripped in half, but it still counts.
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10-08-2024, 12:12 PM | #17 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Pakistan
Posts: 152
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All I will say is this: Hanto's suit is cool and the episode was great.
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10-08-2024, 01:25 PM | #18 |
Dai Shogun
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 7,641
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It's pretty freakin' great, and I gotta give major props to action director Satoshi Fujita for cooking up such a wonderfully unique fight scene to cap this one off, because I think a wounded gunman viciously smacking around his foe melee-style in a desperate effort to compensate for his injuries is exactly the kind of memorable visual encapsulation of everything going on in the story that'll keep people always looking back on this episode very fondly in the long run.
It's far removed from the flashy, clean debuts secondary Riders can have, Riders who are immediately and flawlessly able to master their new powers, win their first fight and then go on like nothing happened. Not our chocolate man, he gets in there hurt badly, he wins because he's too angry to loose, and knows he screwed up by giving in to the one thing the very person he did all of this for warned him about. Quote:
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All valid points! |
10-08-2024, 09:49 PM | #19 |
WONDER RIDER
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,886
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10-10-2024, 01:13 AM | #20 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,376
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Quote:
Suga reminds me of a fusion of Zero-One Jin (appearance) and Revice George.
But while Jin was a childlike vilain at first and George a fun-to-watch Kamen Rider nerd/mad scientist, Suga really looks cold to me and makes me not like him at all. Which is kinda a good thing because I don't want him to be redeemed like most vilain/unlikeable characters. Please don't give him a tragic backstory to explain why he looks shady and make him be that curious guy who goes to far and ends badly, like, I don't know, Ghost Saionji ? Quote:
Can we be sure about Shioya's death though? After all, we didn't actually see Granute Otake or Nyelve kill him, so it's possible that the broken Hitopress is a fake. We saw Otake's method of using magic tricks to raise his victims' spice value while concealing himself, which doesn't match how he attacked Shioya with his Gavv exposed. I believe there's something else going on here and Nyelve is probably the mastermind. A hostage is worth more alive than dead, like how Masamune revived Saki as leverage to manipulate Hiiro, so maybe Nyelve could "revive" Shioya later by revealing that he never actually died.
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Saionji did have a tragic backstory though, well, kind of. He was a fan of Da Vinci and believed he should've been included in the 15 Heroic Eyecons, but Ryu believed that heroism was stronger in people who had endured through hard work rather than relying on natural talent. I think Ryu's criteria made sense and embodied the "letting life burn bright" philosophy more, but if you look from Saionji's perspective, it must be painful for your idol's worth to be denied like that, especially by a close friend.
Quote:
That being said, considering everything about the sort of overall story Gavv has been telling so far, I'm not sure in retrospect what part of this I shouldn't have seen coming? Kamen Rider Valen's debut is very much in line with what Gavv has done with Gavv himself. He has an origin story rooted so deeply in classic Rider tropes it almost feels like a retro throwback -- a man with a surgically altered body who shoulders great solitude while fighting an evil organization connected to those origins. It's harder to get more true to the original than that.
Quote:
I loved how the broad strokes are so close, and yet the emphasis of everything is completely different. Chiefly, Hanto doesn't seem to be in this for quite the right reasons. Shouma first became Gavv solely because he wanted to keep other people from losing what he did, and only later realized what he himself stood to gain by fighting. So of course, Valen is the opposite, with Hanto single-mindedly focused on avenging a personal loss before anything else. Gavv represents Shouma finally being able to liberate himself from the cage he spent his life in, but it's made readily apparent that Valen may well turn out to be a cage that Hanto has shortsightedly stepped into, manipulated by people using his sorrow to their gain.
Quote:
I find it incredibly hilarious that instead of teaming up with Gavv like I originally thought, it would seem that Valen's powers will come from Suga literally stealing the Gochizo in broad daylight and booking it.
That does give rise to the possibility of future villains stealing Gochizos for themselves and making their own Kamen Riders though.
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