[Kamen Rider Die]

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Originally Posted by Androzani84

It?s also the debut of my personal favourite OOO combo, in ShaUTa, the reasons for which is something I talked about at length in the Memory of Heroz Let?s Play. And recently, thanks to DreamSword, it?s the one Figuarts I own (mostly because in that same Let?s Play, I inadvertently made myself a challenge to get merch for every water themed Rider/form. So far, aside from the Figuarts, I have the Decade cards for Bio Rider and Kuuga Rising Dragon, the WAP figure for Wizard Water Style and all of Blades? roleplay items), which made me take notice of the gimmick where the whips plug into the arms as tubes. Though personally, I took more note of this Bio Rider-esque ability to turn into water.

It's a very neat suit!

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Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

Sure, the episode is cool and all, but I'll still never forgive the sound editors on this one for being so distracted by shirtless Date that they forgot to put Shauta's insert theme in there.

Maybe the insert theme can only be heard underwater?

[DreadBringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER OOO EPISODE 24 - “MEMORIES, LOVE, AND THE OCEANIC COMBO”

Let’s talk about the comedy first, because it’s what I remembered the most about why I loved this episode. All of the stuff with Hina and Ankh having to navigate Eiji’s love-impaired mental state was killer. Hina getting bashful when Eiji asks for romantic advice! Ankh getting repeatedly smacked in the head for the immortal OOO gif! Ankh having to get Kazari to hold on a minute before a fight, so that he can get Eiji ready, and Kazari being like Wait What Okay Fine! And Hina and Ankh having to team up to perform an OOO Henshin on Eiji’s unconscious body! It’s laugh out loud funny, and all of this show’s comedic potential shoved into one ridiculous subplot. Any time Hina and Ankh need to work together is great, but having it be to protect a lovestruck Eiji from his own distracted impulses? Genius.

As the previous episode didn't... yeah turns out the beginning of the episode immediately tells that the older Sakura's given name is Yumi. Also, they did implement the Yumi/Yummy joke like what I brought up earlier. Hina being bashful about Eiji asking for romantic advice can hint Hina having a crush on Eiji as well, in how she's flustered, her meaningful looks and touches, and the way she realizes over time that she constantly looks to him. She constantly insists that Eiji only acts like this due to Yummy (double m and ends with y) when talking about confessing his love, indicates Hina wants that from Eiji to her herself. Unlike Yui or Mezool, for the OOO main trio, Ankh is the one who attempts to splash with a bucket of water.

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

The pathos side of things works nearly as well, since it’s all about digging into Date’s past and illuminating his strengths. (The stuff with the Sakura sisters… it’s fine? They both wanted what the other had, without seeing how to value what they already had, which is a very OOO way to defuse desire. Much like Date, I was completely ready to be done with their elongated melodrama.) Date’s immune to Yumi’s Love Whammy powers because he finds her superficial beauty to be a huge step down from the vibrant woman he knew as a doctor in Africa. Date fell for Yumi for her selfless dedication to helping people despite her anonymity, and he’s vaguely repulsed by the new shallow version that craves the love of strangers. She was beautiful before because she cared so much about people, and had such big ideas, that it was intoxicating. Now she’s sexy, but it’s nauseating to him.

About falling, Goto does point out about Yumi wanting Date to notice him (which Date stopped before), but Date also rejects the idea of romance in favor of working for his money. Date's noble side is shown here too to go for Rei's (the unlikable one) rescue, who got tied up by Yumi. Rei has something else she's good at other than her looks, she's business savvy. What ends the melodrama, other than revealing their feelings, seems to be the usual on how despite the usual toxic relationship, on dire situations the toxic one (Rei) tried to come to Yumi's aid.... Otherwise, about appreciating Yumi for what she's on inside about being kind and smart, I'd wish that this is more widespread on life to not only use looks as a measure of someone's worth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Shinji wasn't even aware of the War part of becoming a Rider. He saw Knight fighting monsters and saving people and assumed Riders were all best buds fighting for justice. He totally refused to play the game at all until the final arc and even then, he realized he was wrong on his own when he couldn't bring himself to kill Ren. It's also left to viewer interpretation whether Ren seriously lost or threw the fight since he didn't want to kill Shinji either. I personally believe the latter.

At first it was on his own, but for the 2nd it was Yui, someone else who also wanted to saved everyone, begging for Shinji to stop (as he was fighting for her sake). About Ren throwing the fight, just wish that Shinji's fighting ability is also acknowledged, as Shinji's also someone who can kick Mirror Monster's ass untransformed, not only Ren. Keiwa's also aware about the danger people face from monster attacks and that the DGP seem to be the only one opposing them, joining it is the way to prevent further harm.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

I'd agree that Ankh becomes a tsundere towards Eiji, Hina and Chiyoko. But him caring about Shiratori's unrequited love triangle with a married man? Depends on whether or not she carries ice pops. I think apathetic characters can exist in various shows, regardless of tone.

The bolded one is what I wanted to inform more people and get more widespread, along with how virtuous characters also exist in darker shows (not limited to the usual good hearted main Rider type). Like how perhaps for Saber being a more lighthearted show, people can view characters like Reika as another righteous straight hero for her joining the SoL for the right reasons, deflecting the blame for her to Isaac ordering her, and treating her abrasive side as colorful quirk (well ofc, like Ankh here). Why wouldn't Ankh be considered tsundere for those people problems too?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

I think this is a complicated moral that needs to be conveyed carefully though, since there's a critical difference between justice and evil disguised as "justice". I don't want viewers to conclude from this episode that justice is wrong or an excuse to commit evil deeds. It's just that justice is a relative term. While Eiji doesn't desire justice for his own sake, he still fights for other people's justice, as long as it doesn't bring harm to others. Maybe we sometimes take for granted how Ishinomori heroes typically subvert the values of conventional heroism shown in other media, so it's important to not take everything at face value and read between the lines to understand what these powerful words actually mean, before we try applying them for ourselves.

Feels that no matter how these kind of stories are handled, there'd be people who get the wrong idea and justify twisted things that they feel strongly for, the Draco in Leather Pants trope. Like, Kanbayashi spent his time mostly attacking people who did actual crimes, like a purse snatcher or corrupt politicians, of which perhaps some audience would view that as justice served and root for making them pay, because otherwise, they'd just keep harming people without anyone punishing them, or those who are too lenient in dealing with them and thus are ineffective. Though then again as I several times said here, people seem to generally never bring up MOTW stuff. A clearer example might be those who put superheroes like Punisher on pedestal for similar reason, going brutal and merciless on criminals.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

About falling, Goto does point out about Yumi wanting Date to notice him (which Date stopped before), but Date also rejects the idea of romance in favor of working for his money.

I didn't really get into this because it's a spoiler for upcoming stories, but there's also a very specific part of Date's as yet unrevealed backstory that is making him prioritize making money over romance, and I'm pretty sure Yumi is aware of it, which is why she doesn't press the topic as she's being put into the ambulance.

[Switchblade]

Probably not the peak of comedy for OOO, but love drunk Eiji is definitely a high point. I'm pretty sure that Cazali shrugging was at least briefly a meme.

Great two-parter for Date, even before he took his shirt off. Every time we get more development for him, I just like him even more. The show spent a lot of time building up Gotou as the show's obvious secondary Rider, but Date is so much fun and fits in so well that it doesn't feel like an unfair bait-and-switch. I'll have more to say about this much later in the series than I originally expected to.

I'm watching the old Over-Time subs from back in the day and... oh man, did they make a translation choice when Ankh was snapping at Eiji in the opening scene.

Last thing I'll mention is something that took a little bit of research. I remembered that there was some kind of figure for the "Love Combo" form of OOO. I was thinking a Figuart, but it turns out it was a) part of the absolutely bonkers OOO line of SICs (this show was made for SIC and its gonzo aesthetics) and b) it was just one of Bandai's many, many "hey, look at this thing that we made but we're never going to mass produce" figure reveals.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

I'm watching the old Over-Time subs from back in the day and... oh man, did they make a translation choice when Ankh was snapping at Eiji in the opening scene.

Uh, yeah. He's saying "idiot"! Just leave it at that, you weirdos!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

Last thing I'll mention is something that took a little bit of research. I remembered that there was some kind of figure for the "Love Combo" form of OOO. I was thinking a Figuart, but it turns out it was a) part of the absolutely bonkers OOO line of SICs (this show was made for SIC and its gonzo aesthetics) and b) it was just one of Bandai's many, many "hey, look at this thing that we made but we're never going to mass produce" figure reveals.

Say what you will about Bandai's tendency to show off toys they never produce (MUGEN GHOST WHEN), but it is 100% thematically appropriate for them to show off an OOO figure you'd really want but can't ever get. It's a teachable moment about desire!

[Zatyme]

Yeah there’s a reason I’ve never been a fan of OverTime’s subs in general.

[Kamen Rider Die]

KAMEN RIDER OOO EPISODE 25 - “A BOXER, A LEFT HAND, AND A BIRD YUMMY”



One of the perils of a rewatch like this one is when you hit an episode that only really works to its full potential if you buy into its misdirection. There’s a sweet little story here about a boxer trying to overcome his secret desire to stay in the ring, but the episode (sadly) switches out from that premise pretty quickly, spending the majority of its second half on the very real possibility that Ankh has spawned the new Yummy that everyone’s trying to stop.

And I can’t really engage with that in the way the episode needs me to, despite the tension being so goddamn watchable.

The show goes to enormous lengths to make Ankh not only the prime suspect but the only conceivable suspect, with his normal smirking indifference curdling into suspicious obfuscation. Eiji and Gotou immediately realize that only Ankh’s Core Medals could spawn a Bird Yummy, so this can’t be Uva or Kazari. The presence of an Ankh hand around the events only drives home to the audience that Gotou and Eiji’s theories are correct. And then we get the end fight scene, where Ankh gives Eiji strategically unsound Medals, while a Greeed hand blocks Birth’s shot. It’s an entire second half that’s shouting at the audience that Ankh must be behind this.

And I’m sure the first time I watched this, I totally bought into it. Everything about this episode is in the shape of damning (if circumstantial) evidence, and Ankh resolutely refuses to provide anything resembling an alibi or a defense. Eiji’s desperate for Ankh to tell him he’s wrong, but Ankh just smirks his way out of the scenes. It seems, for all the world, that Ankh is the culprit.

As long as you don’t notice the recurring details (even inserted in the TITLE via a red herring) that point to a completely different possibility, of course.

I kind of love it for that, even if I’m not connecting with this episode on the same level it’d prefer. It’s blatantly obvious what’s really going on here, if you pay close attention. The pre-credits scene practically screams it, while the very specific phrasing of the flashback to Ankh and Eiji’s conversations about Ankh’s lack of regeneration – the specific things Kobayashi needs you to keep in mind – gives you all the clues you need to connect the dots. Even the story going on with the boxer, about a man warring against his own body… big clues! Incredibly big clues about what’s really going on here!

Hopefully we’ll get a chance to talk more about that soon.

[Zatyme]

If I remember right Ankh was supposed to become the main Villain in an earlier draft of the series before the natural charisma between his and Eiji’s actors was noticed (and the same natural disasters that led to Gokaiger to get significantly more veteran actors to return to their roles caused other rewrites for OOO). So I wonder if this was initially intended to be the start of that plot point?

[Androzani84]

I’ll probably have more to say for the next episode, but for now, we’re at the debut of… whatever you want to call the other Ankh (I’ve seen Lefty, Kid Ankh and Ankh Lost all see use)

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zatyme

If I remember right Ankh was supposed to become the main Villain in an earlier draft of the series before the natural charisma between his and Eiji?s actors was noticed (and the same natural disasters that led to Gokaiger to get significantly more veteran actors to return to their roles caused other rewrites for OOO). So I wonder if this was initially intended to be the start of that plot point?

This does seem like a natural point in the story for an Ankh heel turn, which is part of the reason why this episode works so well on initial viewing: we've solidified our Secondary, we've given our hero the last big form change, and we've cleared the decks of a couple major antagonists. Everything in the show metatextually feels like it'd be natural for Ankh to be the villain here!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androzani84

I?ll probably have more to say for the next episode, but for now, we?re at the debut of? whatever you want to call the other Ankh (I?ve seen Lefty, Kid Ankh and Ankh Lost all see use)

"Ankh Lost" is how I mostly see it labeled online and through merch, so that's what this thread will eventually use.