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#41 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
Posts: 3,953
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But that aside, having only seen the actress as Airi in Den-O (who aside that one episode Ryotaro brought in a hazard disposal team to destroy her food, never really showed much emotion than dissonant serenity), I was surprised by her performance here. If I hadn?t been told, I wouldn?t have recognised the same actress (though that?s nothing new. Unless I?m told in advance, I have trouble recognising Japanese actors in things)
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Some characters that excel in certain fields do get used as the info dumps for some of the in-universe characters and the audience. Not a complaint, but dunno if perhaps how they managed to obtain that info is shown onscreen, their role and contribution may feel more impactful. This isn't the only case where an intelligence part of the team isn't shown in how they gather info, just them showing up and giving info on other characters, so dunno if it'd be harder to be implemented.
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#42 |
Echoing Oni
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,606
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I guess that's not too surprising if the last time you watched a show was over a decade ago? Assuming you haven't gone back to it since it aired, anyway. I've definitely rewatched a few Rider shows myself, with less of a gap than that, and still been surprised to see some story again that basically completely slipped my mind.
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#43 |
Some guy. I'm alright.
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Michigan
Posts: 4,948
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![]() Fun fact: This was one of the first Kamen Rider scenes I ever saw; back when the friend who I watch most of these shows with was trying really hard to get me into the franchise. Oh how ironic it was when we finally watched Wizard, and this two-parter became his most hated in the entire show. And while I myself come out of it mostly neutral, I don't entirely blame him? Like, look, I'm not here to preach morality to anyone or anything, but the way the episodes flow, some might find it hard t not be totally on Manami's' side here. And for a show that's all about hope and redemption, the ending kinda comes across as really cruel? It's probably due to subs, but the way Manami ends up having to go to jail, one could easily interpret it not as her turning herself in, but that Rinko was going to arrest her despite everything anyway. And even ignoring that, Haruto doesn't bother to tell Manami that there's no need for that, given that Manami has clearly learned her lesson in all this. And that's not even getting into the real world context of how society tends to treat convicts, reformed or not. But again, not here to dive into morality and whatnot. So like, please don't. On a personal note, perhaps it's me reading too much into things, but the impression I got about Manami wanting to buy the house was less about the house itself and more wanting her family to come back. We never get confirmation that her parents are dead, just that they're not currently in her life. And, sure, you could say that buying the house won't bring them back, but the entire situation being left ambiguous as it is means no hard confirmations nor any solid argument that Haruto can make to make the situation any better. Finally, even worse than all of that...! These episodes feature what might be my biggest pet peeve when it comes to subtitles. I really don't like when subbers translate "Yo" as "Sup" or some variant thereof. Atleast in my neck of the woods, "Yo" is still a phrase you can hear somewhat often, whereas "Sup" was only popular for a few years and is now very rarely ever said. You'd be more successful listening for anyone saying the full phrase of "What's up?" than the shorthand. So, yeah. I myself wouldn't call this the definitive Wizard story, and in terms of physical objects holding sentimental value, I feel like there's a later set of episodes that does the concept much better.
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#44 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
Posts: 3,953
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It's probably due to subs, but the way Manami ends up having to go to jail, one could easily interpret it not as her turning herself in, but that Rinko was going to arrest her despite everything anyway. And even ignoring that, Haruto doesn't bother to tell Manami that there's no need for that, given that Manami has clearly learned her lesson in all this.
I mention this a tiny bit in that post, but the script is written is a way often uses a light touch rather than being super direct about everything, which means it's a story that definitely gives the viewer room to interpret the exact specifics in whatever way they please. I'm not really sure why in a situation where a viewer has that freedom, they'd actively decide to pick the version of the story they like the least? The ambiguity that makes room to be upset about Manami going to jail is the same ambiguity that allows a person to imagine she ultimately didn't.
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#45 |
Some guy. I'm alright.
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Michigan
Posts: 4,948
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I mean, yes, but at the same time, being direct helps to remove doubt. Sometimes being unsubtle/unambiguous is the better play, ya know?
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#46 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
Posts: 3,953
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Although that's also exactly the kind of sweeping broad statement I'm consciously trying to avoid making this early into this, so for all I know, I won't feel the same way at all by the time this is over.
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#47 |
Avi by @CSarracenian
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 4,205
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On a personal note, perhaps it's me reading too much into things, but the impression I got about Manami wanting to buy the house was less about the house itself and more wanting her family to come back. We never get confirmation that her parents are dead, just that they're not currently in her life. And, sure, you could say that buying the house won't bring them back, but the entire situation being left ambiguous as it is means no hard confirmations nor any solid argument that Haruto can make to make the situation any better.
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#48 |
Standing By
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: USA
Posts: 2,406
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Episode 6 -- "To a Beautiful Flower"
He probably thinks he's still playing it cool in his head, but Haruto treats walking along with Manami less like he's there as a bodyguard and more like he just landed a date, even bragging about his awesome wizard powers when asked. Quote:
I think part of me always wants to assume Land Style is the least cool Wizard form because it's literally square, but it's really just as easy to argue it actually looks the most fabulous out of them all? Yellow fundamentally has amazing contrast with black, and this particular yellow has a golden shine to it which just ups the fanciness factor that much more. There just really isn't any losing with Wizard forms, you know?
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Manami asks why he'd go through all this trouble to save someone like her, carrying the implication of self-loathing, like she doesn't feel she deserves being saved, with all the immoral things she's done. Haruto, though, he barely needs time to think before responding that saving Manami is just the obvious thing to do -- the thing he *should* do -- and that her being a con artist doesn't change that.
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It turns out the house is going to be sold and demolished soon, which is why Manami is in such a rush to gather money she stooped to scamming people to get it. When Haruto says he still can't overlook what she's doing, Manami tries to claim that Haruto can't understand the pain of losing your family. In true Wizard fashion, this turns out to be a similarity between the guest character and a main character, letting us learn a little more about Haruto as he mentions for the first time that he doesn't have a family either. He doesn't totally open up about it right then and there, but there's a contrast in how the two of them have turned out despite facing similar tragedy.
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That confidence isn't exactly misplaced, either, as when Haruto saves Manami from a falling ceiling fan, she tells him he shouldn't have bothered, since she has nothing else left without the house. Haruto, in no unclear terms, tells her not to say something so stupid, which sounds forceful, but the way he can't make himself put it more delicately in the moment is also how you know he cares.
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Now knowing the reason she needed money, a sympathetic Yamagata says he's buying the house, not to just give to her (he's not doing this because he's a pushover or anything), but to keep it safe so she can return one day and buy it back properly this time. Yamagata's a pretty cool dude, as it turns out!
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The other important thing is also spreading this info to more people, which, for threads, it seems to be limited to the ones who opened those threads, and in my case, so far it just seems unsuccessful to try promoting this informations to others, as what I said above already about getting into these threads. My goal wouldn't be about persuading the haters directly (individually), but more so that this information is more widespread and getting closer to be acknowledged as general consensus in the fanbase so the hating takes are more likely to be viewed as wrong.
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It's the fair approach indeed, but some people may have a different view of media than the above. Not agree with this, but while you'd think Koyomi being a limited doll gives far more tolerance on how much she can engage, people may view it as problematic or sexist to limit a female in for instance, a support role rather than giving them as much wide of a scope as the others and be fair, including using various reasons as 'excuses' so that the female would be like that, including making Koyomi a doll that needs recharging in the first place and purposely limit her contribution for some reason.
Incoming despair. Hope is the power to believe in an uncertain future. If you remove doubt, then you remove hope. And that would not be this show.
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#49 |
Some guy. I'm alright.
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Michigan
Posts: 4,948
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Tbh I feel that works better? Cause assuming the parents are dead, it's a pretty melancholic ending, Manami doing her damndest to get that slight bit of comfort from back when she was happy, knowing it won't bring anyone back but it'd hopefully soothe her heart. Personally, my experiences with losing family and eventually a house made me feel more in pain as I was constantly reminded of what I had lost and only started to move on when I found my own place after a year, the ambiguity could have mean Manami's struggle against her own despair is long on going, but she'll at least have the comfort of when she was happy, like how I'm still a fan of stuff I liked as a kid. You can get that interpretation, but at the same time, I don't think the target audience could really get that unless they experience it themselves which christ I hope they don't have to
Sorry you had to go through all that, by the way. Quote:
Yes, Hope is often derived from not being 100% certain of something, but at the same time, people often tend to have a basis for why exactly they're hopeful in the first place. Very rarely is it just Hope for the sake of it. Meanwhile with these episodes, the narrative kinda just shrugs and goes "Eh, it'll work out, maybe. Eventually." And that's not exactly going to inspire Hope in everyone who watches it.
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#50 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
Posts: 3,953
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I guess that's just how strong the comedy in these ones is, that I've seen multiple people over the years share just that part of the scene as though Haruto's second line is the joke, because it's already funny by that point, even though that's still only the setup to the real punchline. Quote:
Yes, Hope is often derived from not being 100% certain of something, but at the same time, people often tend to have a basis for why exactly they're hopeful in the first place. Very rarely is it just Hope for the sake of it. Meanwhile with these episodes, the narrative kinda just shrugs and goes "Eh, it'll work out, maybe. Eventually." And that's not exactly going to inspire Hope in everyone who watches it.
Regardless of what you fill in those blanks with, nothing about the larger message of the narrative changes. Regardless of her specific motivations, Manami still begins the story trapped in a criminal lifestyle she herself would rather not be living. Regardless of how the situation with the house ultimately turns out, Manami finds tangible hope in the realization that her present is more important than her past. Regardless of how specifically she makes amends, her victory is in resolving to live in that present.
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