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11-19-2013, 09:07 PM | #51 |
Blade King Form
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 302
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If Baron really was some kind of cruel villain and dictator, would he really have helped that kid get out of the tree back in episode 2, I think it was? No, he would have just ignored the kid and walked away, but he didn't. He's not the kind of person who would just kill the people he deems weak, that would be too cruel for him.
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11-19-2013, 09:10 PM | #52 |
Master of Water
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 6,246
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Quote:
Good hearts are all well and good, but when that good heart is wielding a weapon of mass destruction and beating you into the floor, you may need to look at a wider picture. Kouta is young, youth is coupled with naivety - I hope Kouta isn't punished for something which is beyond his control but with the writer that is at the helm, I think there's gonna be hell to pay. Possibly literally.
And you don't hope Kouta isn't punished because earlier you said: Quote:
I'm now hoping that Baron kills Michy, just so Kouta has to live with the fact that in a real war, you play to win, not to be fair. Playing fair is for sports. And it's on him now.
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11-19-2013, 09:18 PM | #53 |
Big Bad Wolf.
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Raiding tombs.
Posts: 9,529
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I wasn't trying to claim Baron a dictator, it was simply an analogy.
I less hope that Kouta is punished singularly, and more those kinds of heroes plurally. I find heroes who place their morals before all infuriating, I find it arrogant. It's true that research needs to be done before we go chopping off Drivers, I give you that, but I still believe if a threat exists it should be disabled, not lethally of course, but still disabled. Kouta just stopped the best opportunity to take Baron out of the equation, simply because of assumed moral superiority.
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11-19-2013, 09:25 PM | #54 |
Master of Water
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 6,246
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Quote:
I wasn't trying to claim Baron a dictator, it was simply an analogy.
I less hope that Kouta is punished singularly, and more those kinds of heroes plurally. I find heroes who place their morals before all infuriating, I find it arrogant. It's true that research needs to be done before we go chopping off Drivers, I give you that, but I still believe if a threat exists it should be disabled, not lethally of course, but still disabled. Kouta just stopped the best opportunity to take Baron out of the equation, simply because of assumed moral superiority. Besides that is practically the norm for a majority of heroes. Rider itself is full of them, Fourze, W, Wizard, etc. Even Ryuki was a morally principled hero in a dark, dark world. It's not just a staple of Toku, it is a staple of everything involving a "hero" in pop culture. And it's a very popular line of thinking, "the ends do not justify the means". You may disagree, but Kouta is not arrogant for thinking that way, neither are most heroes, unless they use this reasoning to specifically be smug and superior.
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11-19-2013, 09:25 PM | #55 |
Blade King Form
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 302
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Quote:
I wasn't trying to claim Baron a dictator, it was simply an analogy.
I less hope that Kouta is punished singularly, and more those kinds of heroes plurally. I find heroes who place their morals before all infuriating, I find it arrogant. It's true that research needs to be done before we go chopping off Drivers, I give you that, but I still believe if a threat exists it should be disabled, not lethally of course, but still disabled. Kouta just stopped the best opportunity to take Baron out of the equation, simply because of assumed moral superiority. Also, is it really placing your morals above all else to be helping out a guy who is being unfairly beaten down by a surprise attack from two people he had an alliance with? |
11-19-2013, 09:34 PM | #56 |
Big Bad Wolf.
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Raiding tombs.
Posts: 9,529
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Quote:
Besides that is practically the norm for a majority of heroes. Rider itself is full of them, Fourze, W, Wizard, etc. Even Ryuki was a morally principled hero in a dark, dark world. It's not just a staple of Toku, it is a staple of everything involving a "hero" in pop culture. And it's a very popular line of thinking, "the ends do not justify the means". You may disagree, but Kouta is not arrogant for thinking that way, neither are most heroes, unless they use this reasoning to specifically be smug and superior.
If Baron doesn't go from asshole to full on killer, then existing in this game still puts Baron in direct danger. The best thing for Baron is to not be in the game, as any player in this game can and could be killed at any minute. Keeping Baron in the game helps absolutely no one. And if one person should know that, it's Kouta.
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11-19-2013, 10:09 PM | #57 |
The unKamen Rider
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,332
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Are there subs available yet? Good Drama has nothing.
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11-19-2013, 10:17 PM | #58 |
Master of Water
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 6,246
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Quote:
What you're lacking here though is context. This attitude works in the right context. Gen's morals worked because of his context. Haruto's morals worked because of context. Kouta knows thanks to his run in with Zangetsu that there is more at stake, and in play here, than some child's game.
If Baron doesn't go from asshole to full on killer, then existing in this game still puts Baron in direct danger. The best thing for Baron is to not be in the game, as any player in this game can and could be killed at any minute. Keeping Baron in the game helps absolutely no one. And if one person should know that, it's Kouta. Kouta would still not agree that the ends justify the means. He is not being idiotic for doing that. He is simply embodying a common hero archetype. He doesn't need to be punished for that. He might be, like the Doctor was, but that doesn't invalidate his point of view. Aesirsubs has them.
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11-19-2013, 10:21 PM | #59 |
Big Bad Wolf.
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Raiding tombs.
Posts: 9,529
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Quote:
That's one way of thinking. Some anti-heroes have that, and they're interesting characters in their own right.
Kouta would still not agree that the ends justify the means. He is not being idiotic for doing that. He is simply embodying a common hero archetype. He doesn't need to be punished for that. He might be, like the Doctor was, but that doesn't invalidate his point of view.
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11-19-2013, 11:01 PM | #60 |
Webmaster, Administrator
@TokuChris Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 4,697
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Quote:
The idea of Baron being an asshole and the most powerful, only to be beaten by two weak subjects of his, and then to be saved by his "mortal enemy" in Gaim, only goes to foreshadow the eventual change that Baron will go through. It is now surprise, simply through the show's intro, that the main four riders in this series are Gaim, Baron, Ryugen, and Zangetsu. It would appear that Kurokage, Guridon (is that the actual name? I see like 4 different verisons), and Bravo (or is it Durian?) are simply there to move stories forward and not the "main heroes for a final battle". In fact, Bravo/Durian I could see becoming the mid-show big bad, basically coming at these children with a hardcore military background and a "rampage of destruction". Either way - at some point in the close future, a greater evil has to be introduced, or the show is going to stagnate. You can only have "RIDERS ARE FIGHTING RIDERS BECAUSE OF DANCE STAGES!" plots before the show ends up going nowhere. I'm not complaining or being a naysayer - I love the show and all of what we have gotten so far is absolutely beautiful - but I'm afraid of what will happen to the show if there's not something to unite these different warring factions together, or at least have them pick sides.
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