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05-10-2021, 12:06 PM | #101 |
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I mean, if you ever bring up a "contradiction" like this, where I praise one show for doing a plot I disliked on another show, my answer is always going to be the same: Execution Matters.
Long story short, Wataru feeling immense guilt over things his father did is more important story than Shiori feeling immense guilt over something her did. They have different weights to them. Quote:
Probably the show isn't going for this and this is a mistake based on the previous one, but yeah this is a case of protagonist-centered morality I talked before where where character or events being good or evil is based solely on their actions toward the main character or if they are the main characters; siding with your beloved ones being portrayed as good in story, in this case, Otoya is good solely because he (apparently) raises Wataru and is a good parent to him. This part of forgiving horrible deeds (or even not giving "appropriate" or excessive punishment) while treating it as a small matter also unfortunately has caused some hate towards any kind of sweet hero archetype, but I think this is a writing blunder not being morally white is bad. Quote:
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So Otoya is definitely one of the most memorable and entertaining characters from the show for a lot of people, myself included, but I would also like to talk about my favorite 86 character, Yuri! Possibly my favorite heroine in KR. I was in a rush with the last post, talking about different perceptions of art and the connection between Wataru and Otoya, so I forgot to mention her.
I like that Yuri is consistently the most competent and least weird character and how she's good in combat even without a Rider System. As a waitress, she acts similar to Hiyori, with how she speaks rudely to Otoya, but she has no problem being polite and formal around most other customers. Even though it's good etiquette to show respect to all customers equally, I can't really blame her for making an exception with Otoya who totally deserves most of the bad stuff that happens to him. It's not like Master cares either, since his tolerance for Otoya is also limited. Yuri's respect is hard to earn, especially by people whose flaws are always in the foreground of their behavior.
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05-10-2021, 12:14 PM | #102 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
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05-10-2021, 01:31 PM | #103 |
Standing By
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Actually, I don't get where do you think that Hiyori is polite and formal to most other customers... the way she speaks rudely and grumpily is actually, afaik, is applied to most of the customers (and she had other issues like her clumsy traits, but she has excellent cooking skills to compensate). Though I would also say that, "speaking rudely" also depends on what reasons you have. If she speaks rudely to Otoya to legitimately call him out for what he did, then that's actually what should be done because not tolerating wrongdoings is the real respect and etiquette (for overall humanity to prevent others getting bad time). But if they're rude (Yuri isn't likely this as you said she's polite and formal to other customers) for the sake of being rude, then they're the wrong ones too, just that on occassions the victim is someone deserving. Also, though you said that she's good in combat, one of the complains about Kiva (I'm just saying complaint, because it's up to air if the complaint is legitimate or not) is her getting hit by the Distress Ball to become someone to be saved often, not living up to her reputations.
In most situations, calling out Otoya for his behavior is the right thing to do, but a waitress is expected to treat customers with equal respect, even if they don't deserve it. However, it's okay to scold a customer if they're diminishing the experience for other customers, or staff, which Yuri is, so that's another reason why Master allows her to speak to Otoya that way, nobody's worried about him getting offended and they mostly just tolerate his presence. Regarding the Distress Ball you mentioned, yeah, I'm going to be complaining about that very soon. Good thing this doesn't happen often. She's still a better fighter than even some female Riders like Rina as Delta and perhaps most infamously, Dark Necrom P.
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05-10-2021, 05:25 PM | #104 |
The Immortal King Tasty
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And that's only like one aspect of the show! I'd be here all day if I actually tried to talk about Kiva's body language and everything else right now! So yeah, long story short, Kiva's romanticized fight scenes are amazing. (As much I love Kiva's bestial posture though, I've always been convinced it's half the reason the role was so hard on Takaiwa.) There's also something I forgot I wanted to bring up which thankfully ties into all this, – the rather notable use of stock footage sequences. The lack of them for transformations and finishers was something Kuuga set a precedent for as part of Heisei Rider's unique identity, probably because it felt more "realistic" that way, which is why it makes sense then for Kiva to be the series that only partially stuck to that concept. I remember the form changes in particularly bothering me a bit at first, being so used to the other shows, but nowadays, I can completely understand and even agree with why the decision was made. Those sequences were what allowed for so much of the show's most extreme visual flair, and looking back, they still hold up great. It's the kind of stock footage where you're glad to see it a bunch, you know? He shoves a whistle into his mouth. A Fuestle, to be more specific. (fue is Japanese for whistle, naturally.) I really like your idea too though! Quote:
(Also wow I totally forgot I said that, and have absolutely not been taking my own advice in all this time. Turns out I was the criminal all along!) Quote:
really looking forward to when die gets told the lore behind kivas bike
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It's definitely a little weird how randomly high the bodycount is in this relatively subdued (no pun intended) Kiva adventure. It's this story about Wataru needing to understand that his father wasn't perfect, but there's still those two guys Otoya wronged who get monster murdered, plus that one dude who was just camping? It's a little unnecessary, and it smacks of some production fears that the Otoya/Wataru story wasn't action-y enough for kids.
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Last edited by Fish Sandwich; 05-10-2021 at 05:36 PM.. |
05-10-2021, 05:46 PM | #105 |
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Don’t feel like quoting and editing everything fish said just to reply to one line, but I’m weirdly disappointed that fue means whistle so a fuestle is just whistle whistle.
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05-10-2021, 06:14 PM | #106 |
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I believe the bodycount is part of a conscious decision to make the monsters as threatening as possible again so that there's an inherent catharsis to them getting blown up that arguably wasn't there in Den-O, where the focus was on having fun chatty bad guys for Momo and the rest to bounce off of. Like Switchblade said, Kiva was still playing by some older rules.
The Moth Fangire, like, leaves town to murder one dude? Just some random dude, all alone in the forest? It's so massively disconnected from the Moth Fangire's entire story that it's both hilarious (I laughed at that quick-cut for maybe five minutes) and also completely superfluous. It's one thing to tell a story with darker possibilities and mortal consequences; it's another to just toss in a random murder. Quote:
INOUE FOREVER!
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05-10-2021, 07:18 PM | #107 |
I have a problematic type
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Posts: 10,418
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There's also something I forgot I wanted to bring up which thankfully ties into all this, – the rather notable use of stock footage sequences. The lack of them for transformations and finishers was something Kuuga set a precedent for as part of Heisei Rider's unique identity, probably because it felt more "realistic" that way, which is why it makes sense then for Kiva to be the series that only partially stuck to that concept. I remember the form changes in particularly bothering me a bit at first, being so used to the other shows, but nowadays, I can completely understand and even agree with why the decision was made. Those sequences were what allowed for so much of the show's most extreme visual flair, and looking back, they still hold up great. It's the kind of stock footage where you're glad to see it a bunch, you know?
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05-10-2021, 07:40 PM | #108 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
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I feel so sorry for the poor bastards who live and/or work in the top floors of that building. You know that "several lower stories may repeatedly turn into a dragon and fly away, dropping your office full-force into the newly vacated space" was never mentioned in the renter's agreement and there's no way that insurance covers that.
BUILDING SUPERINTENDENT: What can I do for you? TENANT: Well, I was recently trying to take the elevator up to my office on the 14th floor, but for some reason the elevator kept dropping me off on the 22nd floor. BUILDING SUPERINTENDENT: When was this? TENANT: Oh, it was during that eclipse last week. BUILDING SUPERINTENDENT: Tuesday's eclipse or Friday's eclipse? TENANT: Friday's eclipse. BUILDING SUPERINTENDENT: Oh, sure, that's easy. The Dragon Cathedral left to devour the soul of a decorative vampire monster, and it took about eight floors with it, so the 22nd floor actually was the 14th floor. TENANT: The -- I'm sorry? BUILDING SUPERINTENDENT: The Dragon Cathedral. And, I mean, I know what you're thinking. TENANT: You absolutely do not. BUILDING SUPERINTENDENT: It is a load-bearing Dragon Cathedral, which would normally jeopardize the structure of the entire building when it leaves to help Kamen Rider Kiva vanquish the Fangire menace. TENANT: The Fangire menace. BUILDING SUPERINTENDENT: Yep, them. Luckily, when the Dragon Cathedral flies away, the top six floors just drop straight down, so there's really nothing to worry about. TENANT: Six floors of the building just drop onto the rest of the building?! And there's nothing to worry about?! Are you being serious with me right now? BUILDING SUPERINTENDENT: We haven't had anyone move out yet, so I'm assuming there haven't been any problems. TENANT: Well, here's the first, buddy! I refuse to work in this insane building a minute longer. BUILDING SUPERINTENDENT: Huh. I guess you could always bring it up with the Tenant's Association. They might be able to get you out of your lease. TENANT: Well, fine, give me their number. BUILDING SUPERINTENDENT: Oh, they don't have a phone. They actually live in the belly of Dragon Cathedral, playing chess and turning into the occasional werewolf sword. I can tell them to swing by your office, see if they can help you out. That said, the Dragon Cathedral is sort of the final arbiter, and that thing is not happy with folks who want to break a lease. Just FYI. TENANT: ...I cheerfully withdraw my complaint!
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05-10-2021, 07:50 PM | #109 |
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Hey, here's another fun fact I learned about Kiva: that building is actually modeled directly after the publishing company Kondansha's headquarters! (They publish quite a bit of Rider stuff, naturally.) To my knowledge, the real thing doesn't have a dragon castle built in, but you never know!
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05-10-2021, 08:03 PM | #110 |
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