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Thread
:
Kamen Rider Die watches Kamen Rider Den-O
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04-11-2021, 05:37 PM
#
706
DreadBringer
Veteran Member
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,290
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kamen Rider Die
I guess I wasn't clear on what you were saying? Can you give it to me again?
OK this, but I dunno if this talk would incite an argument...
Quote:
Well, this was exactly what I meant, praising a character for being excessively energetic, but giving others hard time for not being that loud and broad type. I mean, of course it's completely valid to praise Shouko's acting and thinking that the chemistry between someone can be better than others, but this comment seems like being unable to tolerate difference; forcing anyone (albeit Airi isn't in despair and had a good reason to be excitable like that...) to don that enthusiastic and hyper behavior, that if not being morally grey or black, it's the only way for you to have a worth, otherwise people who don't act like that are "lifeless" or such.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kamen Rider Die
KAMEN RIDER DEN-O EPISODE 44 - “RESOLUTION OF A SINGLE-ACTION”
The fact that this episode kicks off with Momo and Ryotaro getting into a shouting match about Momo’s secrecy and Ryotaro’s martyrdom is
extraordinarily
refreshing, a total palette-cleanser from the previous chapter.
Like, last episode left a cloud of frustration and resentment hanging over everything, but this episode quickly grounds its emotional stakes: Ryotaro can’t stand by and let people sacrifice themselves, let alone be complicit in the act. It’s frustrating to him to have to explain all this to Momo. The fact that Momo still sees this all as just some chance to knock around heads, and to see Momo treat his own life so casually, it’s disgusting to Ryotaro.
Right, the episode still starts with Ryotaro acting harsh on the others like Momo forcing him to leave him alone as his wish now. But that got quickly brushed away. And you know, no offense, while Ryotaro comes off as(s) spiteful jerk before at the cliffhanger, Ryotaro at this part of episode shows,
a significantly better way
of conveying what his deal is compared to Yuuto acting standoffish to others, which is just being straightforward and explaining the situation of him not wanting others to disappear. And you're ok now with disappearing Imagins, which was your previous complaint there due to how Ryotaro acts now?
Well for Ryotaro, I guess I've talked before about how people use the misguided definition of hero as simply someone who saves other's lives and/or put their live at risk for others, but Ryotaro here... he's an ideal hero, but his approach is also a complete opposite to that norm people hold on, that he's really against people sacrificing themselves, especially as it's unnecessary, you die just accomplishing that 1 heroic deed, then you can't do anymore. Ryotaro prefers to let others alive, so they can keep doing heroic deeds. This is also seen before when Yuuto continues fighting as Zeronos.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kamen Rider Die
The thing is, that’s not even close to what Momo’s talking about.
My absolute favorite choice this episode made is to have Ryotaro be completely in the wrong. This story ends up being a sequel to the Return Of Zeronos story, where Ryotaro is fine with his own self-sacrifice, but he refuses to let others make that same decision. It’s his heroism turning him into a martyr, where he can’t allow people their own chances for heroism. Back in that Zeronos story, Ryotaro needed to trust in Yuuto enough to know that he was fighting as Zeronos with his eyes open, and doing it for the right reasons. It’s the same thing he needs to understand about Momo in this story.
One of Ryotaro’s biggest flaws as a hero is that he’s oftentimes unable to see the heroes inside other people. His need to protect others makes him see them as fragile, keeps him from letting them protect themselves. He cares
so much
about his friends that that feeling is amplified, where he’ll make terrible, selfish choices to keep them from danger. It’s the sort of well-established character trait that really pulls this episode together and keeps it from feeling as cruel and adversarial as last time.
But it’s Momo’s side of things that makes this episode more than just a Ryotaro Needs To Learn To Let Go retread. We’ve seen Momo as a good friend to Ryotaro, as a concerned boss to the other Imagin, and as an unstoppable fighter. What we’ve maybe never seen him be is a
hero
.
The entire fight scene between Ryotaro and Momotaros was absolutely epic. It’s pure emotion conveyed through an action sequence. Both characters are trying to explain how resolute they are in their decision-making. Momo is going to fight the Imagin, and Ryotaro will never allow it. It’s a total stalemate, with Momo kicking the crap out of Ryotaro for about seven straight hours (I did not check the clock, bit of a ballpark) and Ryotaro refusing to accept defeat. They are both pushing each other as hard as they can, and neither one is willing to give an inch.
So they just stop pushing.
Ryotaro breaks down. He tells Momo that he can’t stop fighting to destroy the Imagin’s timeline, which would destroy his friends on the DenLiner, but he also can’t let them be a part of that. What Ryotaro’s doing is tragic, and it’d become
impossibly
tragic if had to use his friends in their own destruction. He feels guilty and responsible and it’s crippling him. He sees his friends as something to protect, and he’s letting them down, no matter what he chooses.
But his friends
aren’t
just something to protect. They're people(-ish), and they’re becoming heroes of their own. Momo tells Ryotaro that he’s not just mad that Ryotaro won’t let him fight; he’s mad because Ryotaro won’t give him the chance to protect people. Ryotaro has changed the Imagin, acting as a beacon to lead them into the light. He’s taken imagination monsters from the end of time and, through friendship, made them want to be heroes. Momo’s mad, just like Yuuto was, at the hypocrisy of Ryotaro to deny them the chance to help people.
I mean of course, Ryotaro acting as a spiteful jerk for just a mere moment and have him being in the wrong is a journey. But the thing is, from audience talk, I don't like that, I know that people here including me rightfully complained about Ryotaro acting OOC at the end of previous episode before, but people usually tolerate the screw-ups (Ryotaro did) that is caused by someone acting jerk or being a hardass, but if a screw-up is created by ordinary flaw (which is what is more expected for Ryotaro), like lack of confidence, then that one will usually earn more hatred from audience, even correlating that flaw with kindness to view that as weakness.
I still stand by the previous poor decision of Ryotaro's attempt to be heroic, that being stuck on Plat Form, but I still see Ryotaro's act here as the continuation of Ryotaro getting stronger plot (Momo said it himself to not get cocky just because of being stronger), that Ryotaro wants to fight threats alone, not sacrificing himself, and I'd like if Ryotaro makes use of Liner Form to do that (I think the sword is only radio, not Imagins taking part on battle and risking their live by possessing).
Also, about Ryotaro not seeing heroes inside other people, I don't think that it had correlations of others being fragile (remember, it's Ryotaro the loser who is fragile), but as Ryotaro is the most morally upright, I guess Ryotaro sets up too high of a standard of heroism, like those who are grey shouldn't partake the way the morally white like Ryotaro can (well, Ryotaro's moral does take the good part of the adventure like breaking the "rule" of protecting the flow of time by helping the contract holder in the past), which, well, personally I would also say that grey part of someone can't be overlooked and make them lumped together with ideal toku hero like Ryotaro and that they should improve themselves, but doesn't mean that they can't be any use in saving the day even if like, they only cover the fighting monsters part, I think instead of others being fragile, it's more about Ryotaro thinking in terms of black-and-white; even the slightest gray to him is immediately treated as black at the earliest opportunity. Also, the thing about Zeronos, it's not merely fighting for the right reasons, but there are other aspects as the worldview, methods, etc. Zeronos is pragmatic hero, that he can stoop into dirty tactics to get the job done, though Ryotaro should also let himself partake, which is by trusting him enough.
Momotaros, as this episode summed up, still a violent misfit that wants to take part in battle due to enjoying fighting too, so never seeing him as a hero (well, Momotaros is an anti-hero for fighting against evil but having several negative qualities, and that is still a subset of hero albeit morally grey) is brought up in the episode too. As previously has shown, Momo cares about Ryotaro a lot after a rough start, and I would see him as less concerned about the other Imagins compared to Ryotaro (I still see relationships with less conflict as the closer one, albeit of course there are exceptions, for this one, well Momo's main concern is Ryotaro, and he can see other Imagins as competition for taking care of Ryotaro, and he had almost no conflict with Ryotaro after Momo fully cares for him), but about being heroic, what they should do (except for Kin, but as you said he resorts to self-sacrifice at any opportunity, he really needs to learn about Ryotaro's outburst here about not sacrificing) is care for more than only what's close to them, like only between the Taros Imagins group, or Airi for Ryutaros. They should care for people less related to them, like the strangers, as heroes are about taking care of them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kamen Rider Die
It leads to an incredibly sweet ending fight that works on a couple levels. On an emotional one, it’s this intensely cathartic battle with every single Form getting some licks in on the Armadillo Imagin, every DenLiner Imagin feeling seen by Ryotaro. On a tokusatsu level, it’s a great late-stage showcase for how good these suits are. We’re nearing the end of the show, which usually means signs and warnings that Your Form Must Be This Powerful To Ride. So a final fight scene for all these early suits is really nice to get. (Ghost did a quick story for all of its abandoned early-days Forms near the end of its run, which I hope I enjoyed as much as I did this one. I don’t remember!)
So, capabilities wise, it seems that the Imagins are weaker than the Riders, that they fare worse to Armadillo as the default form Imagins (well I talked before about the Imagins taking part of the fight, and finally it happened now albeit against an Imagin too powerful), albeit they fare better than Plat Form. It seems that Den-O saves the day by stacking the strength between Plat Form and the Imagin's power. I also like if the fights showcase every Rider's capabilities, and that's my favorite for Rider's fights, which is also what I complained about the phase 2's handling of forms and powers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kamen Rider Die
Overall, this was everything I thought the last episode was lacking. It drilled the story into being a fight between Momo and Ryotaro. It made Ryotaro’s argument simultaneously relatable and irrational. It let Ryotaro be wrong. And it grew Momo’s character in a surprising, organic way.
But that's the purpose of episodes being continued.. to complete what's started and lacking in the previous episodes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kamen Rider Die
-Any episode where Airi gets to lay down some advice over a melancholy montage is probably going to be a good one, no matter what else occurs. It’s a well the show thankfully doesn’t go back to too often, so it never gets to be cliched or predictable.
Well of course, getting help from others isn't only about your life being saved, Airi doing this stuff is crucial too, as there are many life problems than just being put in life or death situation. Though this is a contrasting view from your reception where Airi and Hana first met (it could've been a good domestic scene but is hampered by Milk Dipper setting which is infested by Airimirers - and there are no Airimirers bugging that scene actually!)
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