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Thread
:
Kamen Rider Die watches Kamen Rider Den-O
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04-16-2021, 10:48 AM
#
754
Kamen Rider Die
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FreshToku
My own experience with these last few episodes, I think I watched in bulk as I definitely remember the little moments with the main cast popping out to me, but certainly not any of the threats they were facing. What even is bad guy's plan? I certianly couldn't tell you, but the Kintaros turning that wish Ryotaro made into a sacrifice is something that has always stuck with me.
Kai's plan is some relatively simple distracting, which I kind of appreciate. Kai is sending Imagin back in time to cause trouble, which will lure at least one of the Kamen Riders to defeat them, leaving less defense around Airi. It's a little frustrating for how straightforward it is (doesn't have the strategy I usually associate with endgame villain plots), but it is a lot easier to comprehend. I mean, the heroes tell you
in this episode
what plan they're fighting against!
That is huge!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FreshToku
Also for as long as you like the process of like writing down your rider thoughts, you shouldn't worry about just being hard on a show just because its popular! (I mean, it'd be unfortunate if you didn't like a show even if everybody else in the world didn't either!) It's nice seeing your genuine first impressions on these things, and maybe kinda selfish of me, but its also been fun/funny to compare with what I remember to be my own first impressions, which I'm willing to bet has been fun for those who are diehard Time Nonsense fans too.
Thanks! Half a milligram of Ativan and eleven hours of sleep later, I'm almost ready for another episode of Den-O.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Switchblade
I have a couple of big issues with this episode. The first is that I don’t buy Kintaros’s sacrifice for a second. I mean, I buy the scene - it works and is totally in character for him - but I don’t buy the finality of it. Even disregarding 12 years of more Den-O content, I just never bought into the idea that the show would really kill off the Imagin. This isn’t Faiz; there’s never been a bittersweet ending or Pyrrhic victory in this show’s DNA.
My other issue is with the final arc pacing. The last episode ended on this massive emotional bomb with Airi and this one follows it up with... everyone hanging out and playing party games for New Years. The whole Airi situation doesn’t even get brought up until after the return of the bad opening theme. It’s frustrating because it feels like the show wants to get us drawn into this whole thing with the Junction Point and Ryotaro’s mission memories for the grand finale, but it’s still treating them like a subplot.
Yeah, these are the two big flaws for me. The Kintaros one checks me out of the ending, and the New Year's stuff just
rocketed
me out of the beginning.
For the New Year's stuff, it's all about momentum. We ended the last story with a tragic sacrifice, and a plea from Airi to solve this problem so they can all be together again. This episode opens with everyone playing games on the DenLiner, and absolutely no plan to save any version of Airi. It's Ryotaro and Yuuto sitting around, waiting for Kai to attack, and it bugged me so much. There was all this heat coming out of 46, and then 47's like Well Since Nothing Important Just Happened Let's Have A Party. It would be like if 48 opens with everyone going to a waterpark to celebrate being friends, despite Kintaros just dying. Not only would that ruin 48, but it'd retroactively make me think that Kintaros' death in 47 didn't really matter at all.
And Kintaros' death... yeah, I couldn't suspend my disbelief. Mostly it's because we literally did an entire The Imagin Are Disappearing story that got resolved, so coming back on it for the finale doesn't feel plausible enough. But the way it happens here doesn't feel
considered
enough. I didn't feel like there was no other choice here, and that made it feel like the show was pushing Kintaros' character into making this choice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sh Ranger
It's okay to have different opinions. Whether they're agreeable or disagreeable, what matters most is that they're authentic, so don't hesitate to say something unpopular! I think a lot of productive discussion can often be spurred by disagreement, since that causes people to think about the thing that they like and try and understand why they feel that way, which gives a better appreciation for it. It's interesting to see things from different angles!
Yeah, but it doesn't feel great having those different views. Like, I'm not concerned people'll get mad at me or stop reading. If they're not into reading what I think, that's totally fine. That isn't the part that gets difficult about these threads for me.
I don't find much/any pleasure on shitting on any show. It's not a blast to spend an hour ripping apart an episode from a franchise you love, and it's worse when you can't even muster an emotional connection to it. It's like falling out of love with someone, and it hurts. It feels like there's a failure
in me
. When it's a show that is largely considered one of the most popular Kamen Rider series of all time, it feels a) tacky to show up and say Ugh Not Good, and b) like I'm fundamentally missing the point of what the show is doing. That is not a fun combination of feelings to hold in my brain!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sh Ranger
I actually felt like Kintaros' heroic sacrifice happening on the corner of a rooftop was appropriately dramatic. But that's just my opinion. I would like to talk about the Time Nonsense element of it though, if you'll humor me, since I think this part isn't as trivial as you claim.
While Kintaros' death may be narratively convenient, I don't think it's fair to dismiss it as just that. I'm not going to pretend to be some expert on this show's Time Nonsense, but I understand the part about Memories = Time. Kintaros was the last Imagin to meet Ryoutarou (while Ryutaros' presence was still a secret), which means he has the least amount of memories of Ryoutarou and therefore his anchor to the present is naturally the one that erodes first, presumably followed by Urataros, Ryutaros and Momotaros in that order. That's my take on it anyway, based on how the show attempts to explain its logic.
Considering this point, does this give you more feelings, or maybe a better understanding, about Kintaros' heroic sacrifice?
Not really? The timer of how long the Imagin can last, since this is the second time we've done this story, feels pretty narratively convenient. They just start fading away in this episode. Kin jumping into this fight with the Moles... it feels so abrupt to me, like we didn't wait until it was final, we just waited until it was possible for him to sacrifice himself. Like, it feels in this final fight that he was going to treat
whatever
the next fight was as a way to die in combat. I just didn't feel it was necessary, emotionally. Didn't feel like an appropriate end/"end" to that character or that relationship.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sh Ranger
Sure dude.... Wait, why is this section so small though?
Was definitely racing to be done with this post by then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sh Ranger
P.S. 500th post, yay! (now only 55 to go until the big one
)
Congrats! Your true life is gonna start!
__________________
Currently working on: Go-Busters is next! Archive of previous shows on
KamenRiderDie.com
!
Last edited by Kamen Rider Die; 04-16-2021 at
01:36 PM
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