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Kamen Rider Revice Episode 18- "The Miracle of Fire & Ice" Discussion
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01-18-2022, 01:24 PM
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Sh Ranger
Standing By
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: USA
Posts: 2,100
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Matrixbeast
In Julio's flashback, we saw that his friend was getting bullied in a far more severe level compared to him, being actively beaten up rather than just ridiculed.
Julio started to blame himself when he realized that he was aware that his friend was put in an impossible situation, but his anger and disappointment blinded him to it.
While Julio was right to blame himself for ignoring Yosuke getting beat up, I think calling himself a traitor is a little much, like he's taking all the blame for something Yosuke was also guilty of. The only other possibility I can think of is that Olteca responding to being called a traitor with a "no, you!" got to him earlier and made him actually think he was a traitor. But then Olteca kills Yosuke, the person Julio supposedly betrayed, which pretty much destroys his credibility anyway. It feels like there's not a lot of stability to their friendship, on both sides, so I'm a little conflicted about that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DreadBringer
Not in this episode, but the problem of Vice guiding him would be, holding back Ikki's improvement or pseudo-corrupting him, as Vice can convince Ikki to just not change who he is, I mean including something that makes him screw up others. Like I said above, even if Ikki's nice, well-meaning, and not doing anything morally questionable, there are other things one should fix other than moral/actions (the secretly egoist stuff there for instance).
Ikki's ego isn't inherently a problem, but rather his lack of awareness about how that factors in his decision making. It's important to remember that Vice's advice about that was conditional: No need to change it, as long as it doesn't cause harm. Unfortunately, that ego is constantly running in the background of Ikki's mind, influencing his emotions and he doesn't know where to direct that. Like how he lost his cool (literally, he burned up!) with Olteca, but deep down he was angry at himself for allowing another person to die. It's typical of an egoist to obsess over their failures since they hold themselves to an impossible standard. Yukimi may be the most moral voice of reason in the show, but since Ikki is more inclined to listen to Vice, his guidance is probably necessary to effectively keep that self-destructive behavior in check.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DreadBringer
I mean if Olteca becomes that way due to Deadman's propaganda, it's only an explanation, not an excuse. Being irredeemable or not depends on their actions and characterization, not due to outside circumstances. Turning him redeemable would be only done if that explanation is something that drives him to change, not that "being a victim" instantly makes him not all bad if there's no way out of his behavior since then. You don't have to be a good person in order to be or have been a victim (and that includes Aguilera here), being a bad person or doing bad things does not disqualify you from the victim status. Conversely, being victimized at some point in your life does not automatically make you a good person or a hero, and does not preclude you from doing evil things and/or being a perpetrator of villainy.
You're right. Being a victim can encourage sympathy, but it's not a free pass. The deciding factor for redemption has to be a willingness to change. So yeah, Olteca could have that potential, but if he's become so absorbed by the lies, it might not be possible to save him. I'm definitely interested to learn about his backstory and why he turned out like this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DreadBringer
I only said has a share. I'm not the kind to pin the whole blame into one side, I do think that Yosuke still has bigger share of the blame here. Though still I don't want the bias to major characters that they're the ones that should be automatically forgiven or such while minor characters are allowed to be treated harshly as much as audience want no matter how they're compared to major characters (like if they're not as bad) due to them not being major. I do sympathize for Julio now (but this episode sure escalates his threat further), but so far I don't really see anything from Aguilera that is pitiable.
Fair enough. I agree that Julio has a small share of blame and it's good that he repents for that.
Regarding Aguilera, while she had ulterior motive for bringing Julio in to Deadmans, she's still loyal to him now. So I personally feel that she's sympathetic for that.
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