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Thread
:
Kamen Rider Die watches Kamen Rider Zi-O
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05-14-2022, 05:03 PM
#
1082
DreadBringer
Veteran Member
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,290
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kamen Rider Die
KAMEN RIDER ZI-O EPISODE 46 - ?2019 - OPERATION WOZ?
Half of this episode was absolutely fantastic. There?s a fleetness to the Rescue Geiz plan that?s refreshing and exciting; a heist-y oasis of clever plotting and clear consequences. Characters get used in unpredictable ways for action sequences that rival this show?s best, while keeping the narrative core personal and emotional. It?s an All Hands battle to save a teammate, but it?s also a chance for Geiz to confront how his outlook and his mission have changed over the last year. Genuinely thrilled over how precise and smart the first half of this episode was.
Swartz was the one who dig his own grave in this Dark Rider plan, as White Woz cares about Geiz now and is willing to work with Sougo for that. He also deceives Swartz by pretending to back Tsukuyomi into the corner by being immune to her time stop due to insufficient power, thus he can transport Black Woz and Tsukuyomi to Geiz's another world, pretending to work for Swartz. Other than that though, yeah it's clever to use a gag as something more matters, in how Zi-O Trinity's uniting is now used to transport both Eternal and Zi-O to Geiz's world, pulling Sougo towards both Geiz and Black Woz instead of the other way around, so the powers of Zi-O Trinity and Eternal's Maximum Drive can break the dimensional barrier, freeing those who are trapped there and erasing the Dark Riders, though Eternal is happy for this. For Geiz's outlook, yeah he goes tsundere again that he here actually wants to stay with Sougo and create better future, but that also cements more about how I find it more confusing about those lessons in which one is right, letting bygones be bygones despite chance or trying to change the past, as Geiz here still tries to change the past from the worst possible future here, and he seems to be portrayed as in the right here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kamen Rider Die
And then we get to the whole What?s Swartz Really Up To part, and I could see the wheels coming off of this whole goddamn series arc, second by second. It?s not that it?s dumb, exactly. I don?t know that it necessarily contradicts anything we?ve seen in this season, but folks can certainly shout out things I?ve overlooked. It?s fine, as far as the details of Swartz?z established motivation are concerned. Him wanting Sougo?s power to be the King of Time or whatever? Sure, fine, okay. I don?t know that it creates additional tension to the earlier part of the show, when the Time Jackers were like How About This Rando every other week, but it doesn?t break the show or anything.
So yeah, this is a spoiler, but actually the reason for all Swartz's doing is quite straightforward and... cliche, Swartz is just power-hungry. I mean as you already know, Ohma Zi-O is unstoppable, and is the strongest Rider
in the entire franchise
, which is why Swartz specifically sought for Ohma Zi-O unlike the other Time Jackers, he's unstoppable, and if his plan is successful, Swartz can gain said unstoppable power. Regarding "About This Rando every other week", as you already see too, Another Riders are portrayed as mere stepping stone for Sougo becoming king, as dealing with Another Riders mostly would net Sougo a new Ridewatch, and it's already established that Sougo gaining more and more Ridewatch would make him more and more powerful and closer to become Ohma Zi-O. So Swartz had the Time Jackers create Another Riders which had Sougo and friends deal with them and getting themselves Ridewatches in the process, and push Sougo closer towards becoming Ohma Zi-O, and an extremely powerful powerset for Swartz to steal. It's how Time Jackers was important to Swartz.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kamen Rider Die
The problem is that it continually introduces new problems for the characters that only come from Swartz?z monologues, and only seconds before they?re relevant to the plot. We aren?t in an endgame that the show has been building to since the first episode, despite the Time Jackers being around since the very beginning of this show. We?re getting some random scheme of Swartz?z, with an out-of-nowhere stipulation to complicate things. The idea that Sougo can?t destroy Swartz without also erasing Tsukuyomi?s timeline? what?! It?s like saying Sougo can?t eat a bowl of noodles without Woz dying. Why? Says who? Since when is Swartz responsible for his entire timeline? If this was a sword hanging over our heroes? heads, why in the world wouldn?t the show want to tell us sooner? Why throw it at the viewer this late in the story?
Dramatically, it feels like the story has whatever rules and stakes are necessary for the current conflict, and that sucks. That sucks
real bad
. I?m not saying the superhero show about time travel needs bulletproof causality or unbreakable rules for pseudo-science, but you can?t just drastically alter the stakes by having the villain go Oh By The Way. It feels unfair in a way that flimsy Ridewatch mechanics don?t. It makes Swartz feel
cheap
, and that?s literally the last thing you want your season-long villain to come off as.
And coincidentally how the endgame is presented regarding Swartz to you seems to be similar damned if you do/don't situation for Sougo here? Not showing it means the show doesn't know to create a scheme to thwart for him, but if he's shown then it's like this. Otherwise, yeah it clearly seems that Swartz is meant to be all controlling villain that was constantly backing Sougo into a corner as Enchilada said, regardless of how sloppy it was executed, likely inherently due to how time travels can really cause headache. Even a well-loved series like Den-O had that as its main known flaw. Swartz pulls a situation for Sougo where everything he does result in a bad outcome:
If Sougo kills Swartz, Geiz and Tsukuyomi will fade from existence, because the loop (that I talked about previously
here
) will be undone; Swartz also knows Sougo loves his friends too much to hurt them.
If Sougo lets Swartz kill him due to hesitating above, Swartz will take all 20 Heisei Riders' powers and become Ohma Zi-O all-powerful.
If Sougo becomes Ohma Zi-O, the loop above is brought to completion and all of Sougo's friends live, but the world is devastated by the tyrannical rule of Ohma Zi-O as seen in the beginning that made Geiz and Tsukuyomi went to the past, and Swartz gets to try again in the next iteration of the loop.
If Sougo does nothing, the fractured timeline as a result of multiple factions going to the past (e.g. Riders existing from a future where Ohma Zi-O didn't win) can erase all of the Riders from history, leaving Swartz's timeline alone and leaving him free to dispose Tsukuyomi to become king.
But other than that, for the 3rd choice above, it explains how Sougo can become Ohma Zi-O, in all the previous loop, it turns out that Sougo becomes Ohma Zi-O due to being forced by Swartz to keep his friends alive. This kind of invalidates the development Sougo got before to grow out of himself becoming genocidal dictator though like by accepting his dark side, but as it's established before about the damages and loop Geiz and Tsukuyomi can do by time travelling stated by Aqua, so it's implited previously Sougo took 3rd choice before, and always did that in multiple iterations of the loop before too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cosmicrescend0
Hora getting killed is........ugh? Like if you wanted to kill Swartz this entire time, and actually cared for Heure, couldn't you have just assisted Sougo and Friends?????????? Nobody dead is better than both dead, after all!
Actually probably you shouldn't put someone in pedestal just for going against a (really despicable) villain, like assuming she cares about Heure or such due to that. And for "wanted to kill Swartz this entire time", someone's not instantly heroic/good just because they target bad guys (y'know, including Swartz himself disposing the other Time Jackers), bad guys can target other bad guys, Ora's feud with Swartz, was like Ora's feud with Yuko before, villains fighting villains, and both are based on Ora taking revenge on someone who happens to be evil too (but wronged her), and there are many other evil vs evil scenario in KR before like Eternal vs Eyes Dopant or Ryoma vs Kogai Kudo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sh Ranger
Sougo did use time travel to save Makimura before destroying Another Ghost though, so even if it wasn't Heure's intention, it wouldn't be inaccurate to say that Heure is part of the reason why Makimura survived when he would've died originally. I guess I was just using "antihero" as a synonym for selfish, since Heure is a pragmatic person similar to Evolt, so he won't do something evil if there's nothing to gain from it, when doing something good might better serve his goal in the long term. In his truce with Woz, that was an "enemy of my enemy" scenario.
And by that logic for unwittingly saving Makimura being good (it's Sougo being sharp enough to take a 3rd option between Heure's sadistic choices), are Shockers (or anyone similar, basically many villainous individual/organizations because KR theme is using superpowers from evil for good) good because they can create the birth of Kamen Riders, from their inhuman experiments? Sometimes good things can come out of a bad situation or a bad thing. However, people should not misconstrue that just because something good was born out of something bad/evil, does not make that something good, just because the end result was good does not mean that the bad guys did something good. And yeah I guessed it, you're using that as a synonym for selfish, but anti-heroic isn't merely about being selfish, there are more forms of it, like anti-heroic can be the one who is altruistic but (regularly) going extra mile like paying evil unto evil.
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Last edited by DreadBringer; 05-14-2022 at
05:08 PM
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