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Thread
:
Kamen Rider Die watches Kamen Rider Kiva
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05-08-2021, 02:04 PM
#
57
DreadBringer
Veteran Member
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,290
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kamen Rider Die
I think it's maybe just a general lightening in tone, more than it's a thing where Den-O won out. There's always been goofiness and humor and sweetness to Kamen Rider; I think we're just watching those elements increase in importance. Maybe more kids want to have fun than want to be scared? Maybe it's a shift in the culture?
Uhh, not every goofiness and humor are lightheared or sweetness. Like you said sometimes a joke is unhelpful, or inconsiderate, and that can be what people find as entertaining. Especially for this kind of writer, to you at least, comedic sociopathy for laughs, a character making others suffer as something you'd find comedic trait. Giving nasty actions free pass due to it being seen as funny and not considering the feelings of the victim or treat them as don't matter for the entertainment value in those behaviours. Among kids, this can be used to perpetuate something like, bullying because they find the behavior funny, and justify the act so that the bullying will continue for them for them to watch for laughs!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kamen Rider Die
I think I would? Good characters come from lots of different writers, just like a writer can have lots of different good characters. Like, I feel like you've got this view of Inoue writing heroes who are antisocial, but, like: dude created Agito! Inoue wrote
Shouichi
, arguably the sweetest Rider in all of Heisei. He's not just a writer who creates closed-off heroes.
Well yeah, I had thoughts of this being potentially Inoue bias too that if Wataru comes from Inoue, then praises for him, but if he comes from someone else, you can instead pick on his weaknesses/flaws, as a good number of people do. BTW, while Wataru is asocial, Wataru is also the usual sweet toku hero for main Rider, his flaws aren't something toxic or moral, its ordinary flaws like shyness, pushover/doormat, lacking common sense, etc. those aren't something that hurts others. While Takumi has dark and negative traits as flaws, where he's aggressive, mean spirited, apathetic, irrational (Kusaka's first appearence), and can be inconsiderate/uncaring, and those are hurtful to others and can push him into grey moral territory making him an anti-hero like most secondary Riders. And the reception between Wataru and Takumi also brings back to my discussion in Blade about double standard regarding character flaws for toxic and ordinary ones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kamen Rider Die
KAMEN RIDER KIVA EPISODE 02 - “SUITE - A FATHER AND SON’S VIOLIN”
It’s a little hard to see what he’s getting at about it in this episode, though. The Octopus Fangire doesn’t really get a ton of development, acting instead as a linking element between both eras of the narrative. It’s intriguing to see her connection to her violin, the pride she takes in it, but it’s nothing I can really nail down. I liked it, though. I like the monster feeling something deeper than the heroes, digging into a primal response that the Fangires are weaponizing somehow. Like, Artistry As A Commodity is such a neat concept to explore… I’m just glad it’s being brought up? There’re no real answers to it as a problem here. It’s not making a
statement
. But it’s raising the question in a compelling way, and I really appreciated that.
Of course mostly monsters are superior beings to humans, but I'd wonder how the Fangire is left unchecked between 1986 and 2008 and especially, how much the damage she has caused for being left free in 20+ years....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kamen Rider Die
The other big idea, and one that seems equally likely to form a spine for this series, is trying to use art to connect with people. Specifically, Wataru is trying to find a part of himself by recreating the art his father made, and… like, I
get
why this would be Inoue’s last Kamen Rider series. The son of a tokusatsu writer, doing a series about fathers and sons, connected by art? Come
on
. What else could that dude have to talk about after this show?
The part of living up to your father as a successor, and the struggles of not believing in yourself and thinking you aren't worthy successor. I've seen this part of story in someone, and there are different path they can take for development and growth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kamen Rider Die
Complicating matters slightly for Wataru’s search for identity is that his dad is Grease, and Grease is WEIRD. Even in different phases of Heisei, this guy is
down bad
. Otoya is… he is a lot. There’s a slight comedic skeeziness to his horny obliviousness, but it’s mostly just aggravating. We’re completely on Yuri’s side in this episode, even as it’s apparent that there’s a greater depth to Otoya. He’s just tacky, and crass. That turtleneck, that chain, they say it all. He fancies himself a classy individual, a showy man of taste, but he’s just an oily creep. He’s someone Yuri is frustrated by, and he’s a distraction from her serious mission.
I mean, the fencing display Otoya puts on is very dynamic; all sparks and moonlight. But it’s the line he comes into the scene with that I’m most enamored of. He asks the Octopus Fangire, “What do you think music is?” It’s confrontational, and it’s almost
wounded
. The idea of her taking something beautiful and using it to harm, he’s offended by it. That type of character, who is protecting… not humanity as a
species
, but humanity as an
attribute
, I really dig that. Otoya respects art, respects what it means to people, and he can’t suffer the Octopus Fangire to live.
Wow, didn't expect this reaction to Otoya. Yeah, he's a shameless flirt. I thought you'd be all about gushing to him, and his type is fully expected from a writer like Inoue (there's Daisuke too in Kabuto, who goes full-on sexist in this). The thing is, Otoya's for some audience, is the sole redeeming factor for Kiva, and I think he's the closest to Kiva's Kuroto in terms of popularity and recognization (though yeah there are people who find him overbearing due to this). And if you think this part of comedic skeeziness is bad... well, this is a glimpse of Inoue without restraint, seen on the side medias like novels etc. There are more of these kind of stuff there written by Inoue, the TV team tried to keep Inoue on leash to prevent him pulling out this stuff. And for protecting people as an attribute... well, I think that's also related to Otoya's infatuation with women, as beautiful and good-looking humans can also be seen as the display of art among humans, or a "masterpiece for the Human Creator".
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kamen Rider Die
We didn’t spend a ton of time in 2008 this episode, since this one was way more about introducing Otoya and expanding on Yuri/Megumi’s organizational ties (and Yuri is Megumi’s mom?!), but I really liked the plot about Wataru trying to find the correct wood to repair the violin. That whole scene of Megumi berating Wataru, Shizuka trying to defend Wataru, Megumi berating Shizuka, Shizuka starting to cry, and Megumi realizing she has been sarcastically insulting two weird kids and that is not a cool thing to do as an adult… so good. So good! It’s that Inoue character-building I love, where everyone’s being just a little bit awful and then feeling bad about it, and how that creates bonds between people. Wataru ending the scene by being unable to ask for a table correctly because he can't say words out loud under stress is the icing on a very delicious cake. Not a bunch with our modern-day cast, but they were incredibly charming. Socially-awkward skinny pretty boy Kamen Riders and tough female friends
always
, please and thank you.
Yes, Yuri is Megumi's mom. Megumi Aso and Yuri Aso. And regarding Shizuka claming to be a mom to Wataru, this reminds me of a Faiz part that can be disturbing (or memeable), where Kusaka claims Mari can be his mother. For the females refered as tough here, I'd want to prevent the toxic notion that women needs to be ‘out there’, ‘loud’, ‘expressive’, ‘aggressive’, etc. to be powerful, as the 2 women here sort of fit those. And for socially-awkward people finding themselves in tough situations, people like Wataru commonly got ostracized and bullied in real life, I hope anyone here won't push the notion of the "so-called bullies are only trying to bond with them" (and giving them free pass by that) based on this interaction.
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