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04-02-2021, 02:03 AM | #581 |
take me to space
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,406
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Your earlier post made me remember how amusingly similar Den-O and ToQger are! Also if there's any sentai you ever feel like tuning in just to get a taste of the franchise, well there are few that emobdy the spirit as unabashedly as the one about trains and imagination.
About the latest episode, I've always been just a little mixed to myself on how much I like Liner Form as a concept. Ryotaro gaining the power to fight on his own, with the Imagin's support rather than the other way around like before, certainly sounds like a natural thing to happen in the show eventually. But I feel like it takes away a little of made him special as a protagonist, that he was hero in spite of being unable to do cool superhero finishers on his own. That said, all that is me just wondering if some other hypothetical approach would have worked better. As it is, its still a pretty triumphant moment, even if maybe it doesn't entirely fit to this specific episode like you said... Honestly my biggest 'complaint' (more like nitpick) is that I wish Liner Form's head was different. I understand the idea but at a glance it's too similar to Sword Form. If you ask me, the 'eyes' should have been much rounder and more reminiscent of Plat Form. |
04-02-2021, 02:31 AM | #582 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 2,555
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Quote:
-Was not super thrilled that the reason why Den-O needed to use Liner Form instead of any of his normal forms was just Time Reasons, and here’s a fun toy and new costume. I usually like the costumes and power-ups to feel narratively motivated, and this wasn't that to me. Felt not very necessary. It’s just one more part of the series-arc that comes across as thinly established and uncompelling. And I’d like to point out that, contrary to the usual “last form is always the most powerful in terms of near anything”, Liner Form’s only advantage over anything else Ryotaro has is jumping ability. Thank god his first opponents using it were the Mooks of the Imagin. |
04-02-2021, 03:56 AM | #583 |
Showa Girl
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 9,064
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Quote:
First off, thank you as always for indulging my nonsense. Thank you for helping me pretend that the 36th episode of the Weird Train Kids Superhero Program, aka ToQger, was actually the 36th episode of Kamen Rider Den-O. There’s little in this world I love more than committing to a ridiculous bit, so thank you for giving me a day to do that by playing along. Liner Form... not a debut as memorable as Climax’s to me, but still one I love a lot. Is the whole Time Shenanigans excuse a bit weak? Ehhh... maybe, but this was a good point in the series for Ryotarou to grow into his own, and with a character like this it’s perhaps the one time I’m happy to see a Final Form’s debut just be a mook fight! There’s such a wonderful energy to it all. Oh, and now that we’ve gotten to it? I might as well say: I like that Climax is still important, because it’s not so much the mid-season super form as it is the imagins’ final form. Furthering that little thing about them practically being their own riders rather than simply form changes, I think it’s neat that separate final forms are given to them and Ryotarou through Climax and Liner. It’s really neat and cemented a love for them both in my mind!
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04-02-2021, 05:04 AM | #584 |
Master Procrastinator
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 367
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I consider this show to basically have two final forms. Climax is the final form for the Imagin. It's them at their most powerful by doing the one thing that is against their character--working together.
Liner form, on the other hand, is the final form for Ryotaro. It's him doing the one thing that is against his character--fighting on his own and winning. Anyhow, I don't quite agree about Liner forms debut. It could have been done a little better, but the show for a while has been building up the idea that Ryotaro's bond with the Imagin is fragile and temporary. It's falling apart and always has been. Both of these final forms are linked to the idea. First, he loses his bond with 3 of the Taros and only gains it back thanks to the one remaining one with Momotaros, but now even that is starting to fade away and they can't fight with him in the past any more. I won't say more since the show itself will do so for me, but there's very much something at work here more than the show just making up time shenaniguns as an excuse. This continues the very plotline that introduced Climax form and seems to me to be a natural progression of that, albeit more clumsily explained than they could have done. |
04-02-2021, 05:44 AM | #585 |
Showa Girl
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 9,064
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Quote:
I consider this show to basically have two final forms. Climax is the final form for the Imagin. It's them at their most powerful by doing the one thing that is against their character--working together.
Liner form, on the other hand, is the final form for Ryotaro. It's him doing the one thing that is against his character--fighting on his own and winning. Anyhow, I don't quite agree about Liner forms debut. It could have been done a little better, but the show for a while has been building up the idea that Ryotaro's bond with the Imagin is fragile and temporary. It's falling apart and always has been. Both of these final forms are linked to the idea. First, he loses his bond with 3 of the Taros and only gains it back thanks to the one remaining one with Momotaros, but now even that is starting to fade away and they can't fight with him in the past any more. I won't say more since the show itself will do so for me, but there's very much something at work here more than the show just making up time shenaniguns as an excuse. This continues the very plotline that introduced Climax form and seems to me to be a natural progression of that, albeit more clumsily explained than they could have done.
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04-02-2021, 11:59 AM | #586 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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The rest of the episode is fine, but outside of Liner Form's debut, it just feels like a continuation of the same concerns over Yuuto's powers that we've had for the last few episodes already. There are some nice moments, but it's not one that really stands out for me.
Quote:
Your earlier post made me remember how amusingly similar Den-O and ToQger are! Also if there's any sentai you ever feel like tuning in just to get a taste of the franchise, well there are few that emobdy the spirit as unabashedly as the one about trains and imagination.
Quote:
About the latest episode, I've always been just a little mixed to myself on how much I like Liner Form as a concept. Ryotaro gaining the power to fight on his own, with the Imagin's support rather than the other way around like before, certainly sounds like a natural thing to happen in the show eventually. But I feel like it takes away a little of made him special as a protagonist, that he was hero in spite of being unable to do cool superhero finishers on his own.
Quote:
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And I’d like to point out that, contrary to the usual “last form is always the most powerful in terms of near anything”, Liner Form’s only advantage over anything else Ryotaro has is jumping ability. Thank god his first opponents using it were the Mooks of the Imagin.
Quote:
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Oh, and now that we’ve gotten to it? I might as well say: I like that Climax is still important, because it’s not so much the mid-season super form as it is the imagins’ final form. Furthering that little thing about them practically being their own riders rather than simply form changes, I think it’s neat that separate final forms are given to them and Ryotarou through Climax and Liner. It’s really neat and cemented a love for them both in my mind!
Climax's really about Momo, and about his ability to really be the Boss that everyone teases him about being. It's asking him to see some value in this various hangers-on, to view them as equal partners in Den-O's success. Climax doesn't require anything extra of Ryotaro. Liner Form is about Ryotaro feeling like an active participant in Den-O. It's him trying to balance all of the guilt he feels when they fail with a chance to help them succeed. It's the flipside (to, I think, the episode's detriment) to Ryotaro letting go of his responsibility to stop/contain/negate Zeronos. It's Ryotaro driving the train of Den-O. I just wish it weren't happening now! In this story! In this way! Quote:
Anyhow, I don't quite agree about Liner forms debut. It could have been done a little better, but the show for a while has been building up the idea that Ryotaro's bond with the Imagin is fragile and temporary. It's falling apart and always has been. Both of these final forms are linked to the idea. First, he loses his bond with 3 of the Taros and only gains it back thanks to the one remaining one with Momotaros, but now even that is starting to fade away and they can't fight with him in the past any more.
I won't say more since the show itself will do so for me, but there's very much something at work here more than the show just making up time shenaniguns as an excuse. This continues the very plotline that introduced Climax form and seems to me to be a natural progression of that, albeit more clumsily explained than they could have done. I don't know. It's not a total error for me or anything, but I find the introduction of Liner Form a little rushed, a little early in this particular plot.
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Currently working on: Go-Busters is next! Archive of previous shows on KamenRiderDie.com! |
04-02-2021, 12:18 PM | #587 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 2,555
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Well, since it’s Rider’s 50th in Japan, I think I should make you aware of the new special starring Genm (which was conceived in the same way as the Kamen Rider Brain special from two years ago).
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04-02-2021, 12:31 PM | #588 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Quote:
I know what I'm watching during my break between Den-O and Kiva!
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04-02-2021, 03:46 PM | #589 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,290
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Quote:
But pursuing Ryotaro's course of action is a gigantic waste of time? He needs to confront his feelings of inadequacy, not treat them as valid. The longer Kohana lets this go on, the further Ryotaro gets from feeling better. It's not tough love to stop enabling someone?
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Yuuto was vaguely content with his obliterated future, and then Sakurai showed up and told him to Get In The Robot! It's a dick move! Deneb treats it like a death sentence! The entire climax of the episode is that Yuuto has doomed himself by accepting those cards! Sakurai is an asshole!!
Jokes aside...well... in Den-O, the stylistic differences compared to previous series, from the giant monsters, mecha-like trains and the vast amount of humor, made a portion of Rider fans feel the series was closer to a Sentai series. Some got past this initial feeling, while others claim that it ruined all Kamen Rider series since. Quote:
KAMEN RIDER DEN-O EPISODE 36 - “NO POSSESSION, NO SECESSION, TRAIN SLASH!”
Second off, extra-special thanks to AkibaSilver for giving me the idea to do this. It was a year ago, when I was writing up Ryuki, where they said Hey You Should’ve Written Up A Dragon Knight Episode For April Fool’s, and I was devastated that I didn’t think to do that. Since then, I knew I’d need to do something for 2021, and April 1st was when I'd be watching Den-O, and I remembered the Weird Train Kids from that Gaim crossover, and here we are. Once they put the idea in my head, I couldn’t just stand by and do nothing. Quote:
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THE BAGGAGE CAR
-Was not super thrilled that the reason why Den-O needed to use Liner Form instead of any of his normal forms was just Time Reasons, and here’s a fun toy and new costume. I usually like the costumes and power-ups to feel narratively motivated, and this wasn't that to me. Felt not very necessary. It’s just one more part of the series-arc that comes across as thinly established and uncompelling. Quote:
-Nothing in this series is ever as scary as Ryotaro getting upset with Airi, so I’m glad the show pulls that lever sparingly. There’s a level of realness to it, that relationship, that makes the heightened melodrama of a Kamen Rider freak-out seem cruel. Still, unbelievably effective at communicating Ryotaro’s fracturing mental state.
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04-02-2021, 05:16 PM | #590 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Quote:
If you think that Kintaros represents Ryotaro's exaggerated trait that turns into a flaw of him being a martyr without a cause, this part shows the exact opposite of this where Ryotaro doesn't approve of sacrificing methods and opts for another way to save the day and prevents Yuuto from fighting due to this.
Maybe? It just feels like the point in the series where Ryotaro has to fend for himself more, graduating out of the Imagin fighting for him. It comes across as a little sudden to me, since so much of this story was built around Ryotaro respecting Yuuto's decision-making. It's a weird thread to tie into this one, but that's why it's there.
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