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02-18-2013, 11:09 PM | #21 |
Energon Warrior 3 Red
YEEEHAWWWW Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Crockett County, TN
Posts: 6,958
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well I can now say that I am fan of the Who I just watched episode 1 on Netflix so I will probably not have a life for a few weeks.....
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02-18-2013, 11:30 PM | #22 |
Master of Water
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 6,246
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Quote:
Comic... that was the point. Ever since the prophecy at the end of Planet of the Dead, the Tenth Doctor knew he was going to die. Cemented when in The Waters of Mars he went to far with his power. Saving people meant to die for the good of humanity. That was why the episode never ended with this huge climatic battle. Because it wasn't about that. It was about a man, knowing he was going to die, and not wanting to. Having to come to terms with destroying his race. Losing The Master and his final heroic act. And Wilfred. That was why Tenth went from era to era, place to place, on a goodbye tour. Closing old wounds, and his past, before moving on to the future. It also mirrored what David was going through irl. Not wanting to leave, but knowing he had to. Because he wanted to move on before it become a job.
That's a good explanation, and it's likely their intention in writing the episode. I just felt that despite all that, the script and dialogue seemed to indicate that the Doctor never came to terms with dying. He was dragged to the deathbed, heck, his last words were "I don't want to go". For me, perhaps if he went out like Harry Potter, who accepted death calmly even as he sacrificed himself to Voldemort to save his friends. THAT was an excellent metaphor about accepting death. In the end, I felt Ten was left hanging in his character development. He never really got over the fact that he was going to die, and destiny forced him to die. It's like they built up so many episodes about him coming to terms with dying, but it just didn't play out well in the last few minutes. Anyhow I just felt the idea was good but the execution wasn't as good.
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02-19-2013, 01:39 AM | #23 |
Kawaii 5-0
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Cardiff, United Kingdom
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Everything. Those episodes were atrocious.
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02-19-2013, 01:48 AM | #24 |
Master of Water
Join Date: Jan 2012
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And here he comes. Do explain why you hate those episodes, Zeo.
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02-19-2013, 01:50 AM | #25 |
Kawaii 5-0
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Cardiff, United Kingdom
Posts: 12,851
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Oh I will I'll be back after I finish work to write a more detailed post
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02-19-2013, 07:30 AM | #26 |
Kawaii 5-0
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Cardiff, United Kingdom
Posts: 12,851
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Okay, prepare yourself for a rant to rival Matrix's one on Decade
So The End of Time….where do you want me start? 1) Months and months of build-up and hype. You probably didn’t get this so much in the US, but over here it was constant news reports of how Tennant was leaving and how he was essentially the greatest thing to happen to the show blah blah blah. There’s nothing wrong with Tennant being your favourite Doctor (because he was great in the role up to a point, loved doing it and got a lot of people into the show) but the media made out that the show was in some sort of danger without him. And that notion is utterly ridiculous. 2) The horrible portrayal of the Master. Sure he was different the classic incarnations, but in season 3 Simm’s Master was the perfect foil to Tennant. Here? Gimmicky lighting powers, Skeletor moments and a rather blatant message about humans are gluttonous at Christmas and that’s before I get on to the subject of the sodding drums. The Master is supposed to be the Moriarty to the Doctor’s Holmes, but here RTD just decided “Screw it, he is the way he is because LOL drums.” The Time Lords are horrible people, but to make the Master a product of Time Lord machinations is a massive disservice to one of the Doctor’s greatest enemies. It’s going to take a LOT of undoing if they ever plan to bring him back again. 3) RTD’s necessity to rip off Star Wars every time he needs to pad an episode out. 4) Rassilon and his power glove. Name dropping someone like that deserves a little more focus than it actually got. 5) The moment where the woman looks at him for 2 seconds and the subsequent “OMG is it his mother? Is it Susan? Is it Romana?” debates. And then RTD revealing that he intended it to be his mother all along. Whut? 6) The Doctor’s death scene being ripped straight out of Wrath of Khan. Surprised Tennant didn’t say “The needs of many outweigh the needs of the few”. Months of planning and they can’t even come up with something vaguely original. 7) 20 minutes of character fanwank that could have gone toward improving the story. 8) Mickey suddenly being married to Martha when the two had previously had about 5 seconds of screen time together. What happened to the guy Martha was engaged to in season 3? If the plans had gone ahead to put the two in Torchwood then yeah maybe, but this just felt rushed and stunted. 9) Trying to pair Jack off with the guy from Voyage of the Damned, even just temporarily. Right after what happened in Children of Earth no less. 10) “I don’t want to go.” Yawn. I’m not going to rant about the Doctor’s childish rant about the world hated him (even though I hated it) because I guess it was good to see an incarnation react a different way to death. But Tennant’s Doctor went out like a spoiled child which felt completely unfitting for him. He had an undisclosed amount of time to visit the people he loved, and knew that a regeneration was coming for ages beforehand. He could have gone out with a little dignity. If you want to see how a regeneration should be handled, watch “The Caves of Androzani”. These are the only reasons I can think of right now, but I’m sure there’s more. Doctor Who is a show that’s been able to survive because of change, but End of Time just felt like it was pandering to an audience that didn’t want or was unable to accept it. Also if we’re still talking terrible 2-parters – Rise of the Cybermen/Age of Steel need to be added to the list. Thumbs up to those who said Daleks in Mahattan and The Rebel Flesh Also, thread name change for fun
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Last edited by ZeoRangerV; 02-19-2013 at 07:35 AM.. |
02-19-2013, 08:03 AM | #27 |
Veteran Member
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How come every thread around here always devolves to "worst [blank] ever"?
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02-19-2013, 08:45 AM | #28 |
Master of Water
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 6,246
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Quote:
10) “I don’t want to go.” Yawn. I’m not going to rant about the Doctor’s childish rant about the world hated him (even though I hated it) because I guess it was good to see an incarnation react a different way to death. But Tennant’s Doctor went out like a spoiled child which felt completely unfitting for him. He had an undisclosed amount of time to visit the people he loved, and knew that a regeneration was coming for ages beforehand. He could have gone out with a little dignity. If you want to see how a regeneration should be handled, watch “The Caves of Androzani”.
I haven't watched The Caves of Androzani, but I hear it's an emotional masterpiece and the best 5th Doctor story, if not one of the best Doctor Who stories of all time. It's natural for people who obsess over the stuff they like. Let's be more positive then, what are your favorite two parters?
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02-19-2013, 08:58 AM | #29 |
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Off the top of my head "The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances" and "Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead" come to mind. I like the episodes that work the angle that every once in a while, everybody lives. Of course, those episodes wouldn't work if the show normal didn't have a lot of death. PS I'm also a sucker for anything with Weeping/Screaming Angels. |
02-19-2013, 09:05 AM | #30 |
Kawaii 5-0
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Cardiff, United Kingdom
Posts: 12,851
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Empty Child/The Doctor Dances most definitely. Every character shines in that and I think its one of Moffatt's strongest stories to date.
Crash of the Byzantium/Time of the Angels was great too, if only because it like like an Aliens to Blink's Alien. I have a massive soft spot for Bad Wolf/Parting of the Ways too - the first part is very silly (in a good way) but builds to a glorious climax and a solid last part that's only let down in the last few minutes. The Sound of Drums/Last of the Time Lords is very similar in regards to the latter as well.
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